DP doesn't want to spend any time with me ):

[Audrey666]

Hello.

A bit of background:

Me and DP have been together 6 years, living together for 4. DS is 4 and DD is 1.
We both work - although I work full time (4 nightshifts in NHS) and he works 2 dayshifts (works for/with his friend's business). He does the lion's share of housework, cooking and childcare though as he works less.
We both have most weekends off and the DC's usually go to my parents every Saturday overnight.

DP reckons that because he is in the house most of the week doing all the childcare and housework then he 'should' be able to spend all weekend doing stuff with his mates/by himself. I see his point in a way because when I was on mat leave and he was doing more hours I found it hard work as many SAHMS on here will agree! And I must admit he is very good at it and also his work (computers).

But.....(and this is the big BUT to me)..
He never wants to do anything with me as a couple, despite us having regular babysitters (my parents) and it really bothers me. He used to ask me 'out' all the time the first year or two we were together - concerts, meals etc. The last time he even suggested going anywhere together or as a family was last November! Most of the time we are working at different times and living separate lives , getting together once every couple of days for an hour or so of TV, sex, or chess! NEVER go anywhere outside the house, despite having ample opportunity.

If I ask him he always says "If you want" or "I don't like (whatever I've suggested-cinema, tennis,swimming, pub etc)".If it involves my friends he will say "I'm not really comfortable with new people" argh.
I have told him how unhappy Iam with this situation so many times now it's unreal but he just tells me "We live together now - I see you every day" or some variation of that and if I press the issue "Stop moaning/nagging/going on".

I do have other interests and friends so I suggested to him we take it on turns to go out with mates separately on Fri nights (take turns of staying in with the kids) and then spend Saturdays together. But he usually ends up planning to go to pub himself/with friends or go fishing/camping THE MAJORITY OF EVERY WEEKEND. Why doesn't he want to do anything with me???

I look at friend's enjoying spending time with their partners when they can and my tummy just sinks. I know it's a problem for me, he knows but just doesn't care - reckons he needs his 'free time' away from the house and drudgery (which I think I must represent to him).

This is one of the few arguments we have but it comes up again and again. I was in hospital last week and he managed to stay at home as I'd just got discharged, but again today I ask him if he wants to do anything Saturday and he has already made plans to fill his entire weekend with solitary pursuits and a night at his mates with no thought to me. I challenged him on it and he had the cheek to say "but I was with you all last weekend" (when i was recovering from small op) - like being with me is a torture to be endured or something .

I'm so unhappy about this part of me feels like it's ultimatum time, because I have tried to get him to understand my feelings, but to no avail , so what other option do I have left? {sigh}

Any advice welcome....

anyone?

Didn't want you to go unanswered , although I don't really have any wise words. If you were to ask him how a man who really loved his family and partner might show it, I wonder if he would come up with living separate lives. I'm also a bit shocked that he's put in so much effort to ignore what you're saying to him. Do you think he's in this for tje long haul?

I think you already answered your own question when you said - "reckons he needs his 'free time' away from the house and drudgery (which I think I must represent to him)."

It sounds to me like you've both fallen into a bit of a rut and because of your working anti-social shifts, the majority of the boring day to day chores and running of the house have fallen to him. I imagine he is harbouring some grudging resentment and feels entitled to do whatever he wants when he has the chance to 'escape'.

Maybe before you start talking about dates and candle lit dinners, you might suggest working out a fairer split of the chores as a first step towards making him feel less of a 'dogsbody'?

I realise that because you work, it might not be possible to literally split everything down the middle but the fact that you're willing to start a dialogue about changing things will be a concilliatory gesture towards making him understand you're a partnership working together??

Thanks WahWah. Maybe Iam asking for advice I should be giving to myself.

"If you were to ask him how a man who really loved his family and partner might show it.."
I have asked him this before and he says he shows it by cooking dinner for me (he is vegetarian, me not, so he cooks meat for me and DS seperately and puts mine in a lunchbox to take to work), or by painting etc , but part of me thinks the cooking etc are just things he personally gets satisfaction from, not much to do with me.

Like you say, I too am shocked at the effort he puts in to ignore me/my needs and feelings. He can't care that much, can he?

He actually gets annoyed at me for 'going on' at him about things I'm unhappy with, let alone has any desire to change things!

An example of how unfair the balance is -

he has been complaining for a while I spend too much time on the computer "you're never off that thing" "I wish you would watch a film with me instead of sitting on that computer all night" so the other night I purposely and willingly sat and watched a film I didn't really like with him in order to show him I do care etc, If the show was on the other foot, he would get annoyed at me for 'nagging' him.

His complete refusal to acknowledge I have a problem is probably a deal-breaker more than the time together Iam realising.

grrr

MadonnaWhore, I feel I do my bit in the house too - I get up every day Mon-Fri even after I've been working late to get my DS ready for school, I do all the ironing and all the paying bills etc, about half of the food shopping and all of the appointments (medical, school stuff etc)for the kids. He does everything else - ie cooking, dishes, cleaning, bathing and bedtime routines for kids most nights, hoovering etc.

I see what you mean about him wanting out of the house to 'escape' - i think that's how he sees it too. he will do loads of duties during the week (as do I) willingly without complaining but come the weekend he wants to let his hair down. Nothing wrong with that - I just hate that it's not me he wants to do it with anymore, he seems to want away from me ):

I was thinking about your situation again and it reminded me of a time when things weren't too great with dh and he was quite resentful of me ( obviously not for any good reason! Really) so the chore thing is most likely the rationalisation of whatever's going on.

Again a question, but what what would happen if you said you wanted to spend time with him and if that meant joining in with him and his mates, then that's what you'll do?

Ah I see, well maybe wahwah's insight is a bit closer to what's really going on.

Have you asked him directly why he prefers to spend his free time away from you? His reaction might give a bit more of a clue as to where his head's at.

Hello again and thank you for your insights (:

WahWah I haven't asked to spend time with him when he is with his mates because he would think I was being clingy and I would feel like I was 'tagging along' instead of invited iyswim? And I'm feeling so rejected over this I think it would just rub salt in my wounds

Things have not been too great with us this year since DD (2nd child) was born. Some things I think could be causing this if I look deeper:
*2 children seems to be alot more work than one - requiring all hands on deck!
*He had issues with turning 30 and then 31 and losing his 'youth'.
*He had a setback at work a couple of months ago and felt pretty sorry for himself.
*Out of his 5 close friends only 2 of them (DP and another friend) have kids and responsibilities - the other 3 still live a sort of bachelor life and I think he misses that - he was moaning recently that he can only go camping for a few days instead of months at a time now!
*He would never admit to this ,but pre-DC's his mum used to dote on him - now when she comes round she goes straight to the DC's all oohs and ahhs and seems to forget he exists now in her new role as 'granny' so I think he feels put out.

I'm not making excuses for him, but this seems to be his reasoning - and although he ACTIVELY CHOSE to move in together , have DC's and get engaged (last year) - all 3 his ideas! I think now he resents the imposition on his freedom and resents me as I 'personify' that in his eyes Iam the 'ball and chain' and that hurts - I would rather do it myself sometimes. In fact alot of the things he says indicate some kind of resentment towards me and I hate it >crying emoticon<

MadonnaWhore I have asked him why a million times - he just says things like

"I do want to spend time with you" then goes straight back to never asking me and never agreeing to go anywhere when I ask.argh

"Not this again" grrr

"We live together - I see you every day of the week"

"I shouldn't have to audition for my freedom - I have other things in my life apart from you you know"

Tbh I'm feeling pretty damn hurt that the man who used to be falling over himself to spend time with me for a good 3 years now just doesn't seem to like me anymore >bawling emoticon<

Sometimes I think we'd be better off apart if he doesn't want me - I'm still young(ish) and feel like this is draining me.
maybe I should give him an ultimatum - although that might just push him away further? I have tried ignoring it and making plans myself when he goes out all weekend - but I end up failing to enjoy my day/night out with friends/family because I'm upset that yet another weekend he has chosen to spend away from me ):

And I have always supported him - I sat up all night talking to him when he had the work setback, I have always been affectionate (he still is too sometimes but mostly when he wants sex). I broached the topic about his mum and gently said maybe he has a kind of male-PND?

Hi Audrey,
I just wonder if he is re-ascertaining his maleness by spending time with his mates. He may feel that he has taken on a female role by doing all the chores he does, and by you being the main bread-winner. Maybe it has nothing to do with rejecting you, he simply needs some male bonding to keep his self esteem.

I am no expert, but you have a good and stable job, you work longer hours, he may feel the need to be really macho.

What do you think?

I was just going to say something along those lines about how men who are in this role are often told how wonderful they are (dh was always getting praise for doing no more then most women) and this can feed into their sense of entitlement to 'me ' time.

He sounds like a really good man gone selfish ( or somehow trying to preserve himself) but he should be doing this WITH you, as you know.

He knows what you want. It feels rejecting , resentful and angry that he won't give it to you-as you and other posters have noted.

You may need to think about the ultimatum , or tell him to keep a specific Saturday evening free and don't ask him what he wants, just use your knowledge of what you both enjoy to organise a fun evening for you both- no discussions about anything- do something that isn't about talking, have a few drinks and memorable sex. If it gies well, pick another day and tell him it's his turn to organise tje fun.

Hi BaggyAgy,

I think you could be right in a way (:
I have said to him I have no problem with him having 'guy time' with his mates, but I think it goes deeper than that.As an aside to the 'femine' thing, that's why I do all the ironing and he does all the washing - he says ironing is a 'female thing' but apparently washing and drying isn't

I just have this intuition , this 'rotten' feeling that he doesn't want me anymore. It's very subtle but lots of his actions and words point to him being very resentful and antagonistic towards me. Every time in my life where I have ignored my intuition, it comes back to bite me!

Recently alot of things he says seem to be very subtle passive-agressive nasty comments disguised as 'jokes' - can't think of many examples off the top of my head but it happens all the time - like he is trying to get 'one over' on me. After I got upset about it he said the "but I spent all last weekend with you" was a joke. Also the constant moaning at me (directed at me, although not overtly, but I know it is) about not getting to go camping for weeks on end because he has a family is apparently another 'joke' / 'didn't mean it' . He says he hopes DS gets his looks and nature then when I get pissed off says it's 'only a joke' and calls me a drama queen and says it's just his type of humour! (haha). When his mum expressed concerns about DS behaviour he said "well that didn't come from me, their mum is a drama queen" .

If I have opinions about what should be done in the family he disagrees with he will call me 'unreasonable' or 'weird' .I think it's ok that 1y.o DD attends nursery for a few hours a week, he doesn't - says he doesn't agree because he doesn't know the playleaders personally - I get accused of being "too lax with DC safety" - he huffs and puffs but ended up agreeing to send her anyway.

On Xmas day he says it's his family tradition to drink champagne at 7am (to clarify, he doesn't drink early in the day on any other day of the year) and I think that's too early for alcohol - he called me "stuck up" and "no fun"

sorry about the ranting - I'm just trying to make sense of it all in my head.

Lord, I think this is going to need outside help to fix. Get to Relate. If he won't sort things out, then I guess you have your answer.

Sounds pretty miserable.

I think there's every chance that things will come round again, but I agree it's quite hard to see how that's going to happen if you never spend any time together.

I do also think you are all at a really tough stage - I have an only so can't really comment but from the outside it looks so hard with number 2 until they are quite a bit older. I don't think it's really a humane workload for quite a long time, especially if one or both of the partnership is having long-term broken sleep.

The only thing I could suggest is holding on and giving lots of praise? I'm sure you do anyway, but to be told that your partner appreciates what you do, however minor, does IMO make you want to spend more time with them. It's going to stick in your throat though if he's off all weekend, which is a bit WTF if it's every single time. Could you maybe book a family camping weekend for a month's time, stick it in the calendar and tell him about it?

Thanks all , I really appreciate it

wahwah and maktaitai - I do praise him all the time. He is actually better at running a house than Iam- more organised and less 'dittery' (if that's a word) - and I tell him so. If he's in then DS always has dinner on the table as soon as he's back from school. DS always says he "loves it when daddy is in after school (MIL picks him up on way back from her work) because dinner's ready" whereas if I'm in I usually don't even start thinking about what to have until 5pm!

I do sometimes organise stuff for us to do but he's never enthusiastic - always says "ok if you want" then when the day comes he will say "Oh I forgot - I was going to do xy or z today" . If I spring a surprise suggestion of an outing on him he will say "Oh, I've already made plans to do x,y or z" which strikes me as kind of passive-aggressive?. It's not just sometimes, it's the vast majority of free time we have together/ family time. I have said to him if he doesn't want to spend time with me please tell me and I can work out what to do with that information but he won't admit it (although he obv isn't interested). It's like he knows I'm not happy but he wants to keep the status-quo. Which keeps me in a state of limbo not being able to decide what I want to happen because he's alway 'putting me on the back-burner' He doesn't seem particularly happy either, but doesn't want to leave, just wants to bury his head in the sand and avoid me as much as possible.

I don't think I can just 'put-up and shut-up' or tolerate his behaviour and constant weekend absences, although I admire those who could. He wouldn't change, he'd just think all his Christmasses had come at one and be relieved I'd stopped 'nagging' him.

I want the reasonable amount of family/couple time as most other families have (esp as we are so lucky to have babysitting nearby) and not to have my feelings and needs side-stepped. Tbh it really makes me see him as selfish and makes me dislike him.

Hi Audrey,

Reading your posts for some strange reason just made me wonder if he resents you because he is questioning his sexuality. Is it possible that he might be gay? I just wondered, I am not suggesting that he is. His housekeeping is better than yours, he was doted on by his Mum, he prefers male company, etc., they all mean nothing, or do they?

Hi BaggyAgy,
Iam pretty sure he's not gay. Don't know why, just NEVER got that vibe from him at all.
I think it's down to him feeling like he's losing his independence and freedom and resenting me for it. I know it's not fair though that he paints me as some kind of 'nagging witch' when I actually actively encourage him to see friends (just don't like the frequency he does)

We had a big argument about it over the phone last night (when I was outside work) and he agreed (somewhat reluctantly) to do something tomorrow but he says I have to arrange it as apparently he "doesn't like most of the things society has to offer, and doesn't like going out" Bullsh*it!! - Funny that he manages he arrange camping trips, darts nights etc with his friends then isn't it? And funny how we used to go for walks, to beaches, art galleries, meals, cinema etc etc
for the first 2 years all at his suggestion Now he says that was just fake and what you do when you first meet someone and it's new - bah!.
I told him (yet again-it's even boring me now) how hurt I feel all this and asked him if I would always have to do the running about after him, is this always how it's going to be now? He kept saying he doesn't know, that if if don't like he I should leave () i saw red at this and started shouting. He seemed to actually take pleasure in keeping me dangling. Says he won't be 'forced' into anything. hmmm - if he won't even make the slightest adjustment to make me happier - how much can he really care? I think he's scared that making concessions to anyone will take 'himself' away ! It seems like that and he has said that before.
The more I think about it, the less hurt Iam actually, because I keep reminding myself it's not ME - My friends and family want to spend time with me, I have always brought it up in the nicest way possible, psycho-analysed him, worked around him and his fucking precious life (as his mum does/did) and why should I be doing that when he takes little notice of my feelings?
Yes he is good in a lot of ways but I'm noticing he only does anything AS and WHEN HE wants to - he won't budge for anyone.

For example if I ask him to do something specific (in a nice way) he will purposely do everything EXCEPT what I was asking and then say "I don't like being told what to do - I will do it in my own time" . It's like he is so scared of being 'controlled' and thinks everyone is trying to tell him what to do - if anyone has needs or opinions different from his own he just can't deal with that.

More and more I'm thinking of him as a grown man with a sort of little boy rebel complex! He always says "No-one tells me what to do!" (don't know if I'm being mean thinking that). It's not attractive I'll tell you that! He acts like a spoilt brat at times.

Jesus. Sorry for the long post - just getting things off my chest is helping me to understand them.

Oh and his fucking mother was in the background when I phoned , "tutting" and (he said) getting angry for ruining her tv viewing. !!!!!!!!!! Instead of going into another room he continued the conversation in front of her to 'prove' something , all the time making me out to be some kind of evil harridan! It really is playground mentality, isn't it!

He's a boy. He thinks he's got fucking playtime. He says he shows love by painting walls?

Doesn't "like new people". Eurgh.

He sounds like a child. Fuck him off, see how he likes it then.

God these threads do my nut. How do you all find these guys!!!???

Ewwwww.

After your last post, I think an ultimatum is LONG overdue. He's being lazy, selfish and disrespectful and he knows it. Pull the rug out from under his feet. Chuck him and his mum - that way, he can do what he likes and you'll be free to date men/a man who gives two shits.

Perhaps when he sees you having fun with someone more keen, he'll realize what he's lost?!

Good luck.....

Further thoughts:
( and sorry to hear about the conversation last night and that he played it out in front of his mother)

Is he having an affair?
Was his father emotionally/ physically abusive? Or is his Mum one of those Mrs Kray types 'they're good boys really, they look after all the old ladies'....

I think you're well beyond nice evenings out, he commits to couples counselling or you're over- can't see another way to salvage this.

I'd agree, Relate/some form of couples counselling is urgently indicated. Sounds very much as if he's hoping you will be the one to break it off so that he can get lots of sympathy from his family/mates/next partner.

TBH his mum being annoyed that his family life is intruding on her telly viewing sounds much the same.

Hi and thanks for the replies (:

Coolfonz Whilst I agree with you and he pisses me off no end, and I think he's like a child too, it's not quite as simple as 'leave him' -especially when we have 2 DC's , a house and he does most of the childcare whilst I work antisocial hours which no childminder would do.

Elzy
I know this is how I think about it. The more I examine his behaviour (why should I even bother, well I suppose because it affects me, the more I actually see signs of subtle emotional abuse at worst, extreme immaturity and inflexability at best.

I have noticed the following signs of abuse/extreme selfishness (or this is all i can remember right now) -

*When I ask hima direct question he always turns it back on me, my fault for asking, or skirts roiund the issue - especially if it's a serious question. Therefore he stops me from making a decision on what to do with his answer. I tell him I'm not happy, ask him if he'll change and he turns it on me or says "maybe" !!!! He does it more subtley, but this is in effect what he is doing all the time to get his own way without me leaving.

• In the past when I did leave him and told him I needed space to think after a big fight (twice - once for a week, once for a few weeks) he sent 'love letters' and texts and tearful phonecalls. Until I came back (where he wants me) then he seemed to resent me for making him weak or some such stupid reasoning. Seems very manipulative.

*He is perfectly agreeable and can be lovely , but ONLY IF HE IS GETTING EVERYTHING HIS OWN WAY. If he doesn't get it he will sulk, make sarky comments etc. Most people would concede to do something they are not particularly interested in for someone they love (ie- go to social event with a friend of their partner's they didn't particularly like), but not him.

*I'm even starting to think the fact he does so much in the house and with kids is actually a way of excusing the other stuff. So if I complain about something he always says "Look at all I do in here!" but completely avoids the issue I was speaking about.

grrr.

WahWah Thanks again - No I'm pretty sure no affair although I see that with his resentment of me he would be a prime candidate for one. He leaves his phone at home alot, if i phone when he's out I can hear his friends/mum in background, so I highly doubt it.

His dad left when he was 3 - he has met him twice (once at 18 which his mum engineered, once by chance they bumped into each other a couple of years ago). His mum is nice but pretty overbearing - think he feels 'controlled' by her (even I sometimes do with her meddling with DC's and well-meaning 'advice') and has probably spent his whole life 'rebelling' against her. Probably thinks all woman are out to control him.
I can't believe how right you were when you asked if his mum is a 'Kray' type - you are sooo right! She is over-the-top but in another sense she doesn't stand up for herself - thinks 'men will be men,haha' (boys will be boys) and laughs it off. Doesn't make it any better for me though.

If I broach the subject of counselling he always just says "ok if you want" but would recoil in horror and probably give me ultimatums if I actually arranged it. Another stalling tactic! I've never actually given him an ultimatum - "counselling or split" so I don't really know what he would do if I did.

I keep thinking though that I'm no angel, although I would say I am a reasonable person. Sometimes I scream and shout at him, swear at him, threaten to leave if he doesn't change things, but never as cold as him. Maybe I'm no better really? and i'm trying to 'mould' him into someone he's not when I should just realise we can't be happy together anymore and just leave? Maybe in ways Iam being controlling - a couple of years ago he was drinking every day- not loads but still enough to make me think it was a problem beginning. So I put my foot down and said I couldn't have him in the house with me and DS (baby at the time) if he didn't cut down to just one day drinking during the week and one at the weekend. I told him I was completely serious and after alot of huffing and puffing he stopped and now (grudgingly) sticks to it (I can smell if he's been drinking at all). Was this me being controlling or just open about what I can and cannot tolerate?

hmmmm....
This is helping but seeming to get murkier though?

Thanks Maktaitai
Sadly, he acts like he couldn't care less if I split with him , until I do , and then he is all "I love you" blah blah blah which just strikes me as manipulative.

yes i think that's why you would both find counselling potentially helpful, if painful.

it's interesting that when you really did lay down a boundary and said you could not live beyond it, he agreed.

i do wonder if he finds the threats to leave etc very stressful, esp given his history with his dad, and is pushing you away because he dreads the pain of losing you and hopes to reduce that pain somehow by loving you less/putting himself less on the line?? not that i blame you for trying to get some kind of loving reaction out of him. it does sound as if it might be possible for you both to operate differently together, tbh.

Thanks Maktaitai for your good insight.

I try to change my reaction to him by not going on, by keeping things firm and succinct and to the point, and by not laying the blame - this may sound a bit neurotic but I actually write a 'DESC' script (Grace on here wrote about it once on someone's thread and I googled it and thought it useful) and then say it to him. If he doesn't listen I write it down - keeping it short and to the point- and sellotape it to the fridge or somewhere when I go out. I actually had a pretty fucked up childhood too (dad died suddenly when I was 10, mum never around, brought up by various toxic family members-i find rejection very hard to handle as I felt pretty unwanted growing up) but I'm no pushover - I have learned that if there's something which really make me unhappy (like this time issue now or the drink one before) then I will have to leave and actually follow through on it if nothing changes.

It is interesting that he did change. However, it took a long time and I endured alot of verbal abuse from him in the process like "You're abnormal/boring - lots of people drink everyday" "You're no fun/weird/unreasonable" etc etc. Alot of antagonism and promises to change and he didn't. Until I decided to spell it out to him once and for all and put a kind of shield around myself to remain detached from his nasty comments - I just repeated "Well sorry you think that about me but that's not my reality. Those are my boundaries and I will not be pushed into ignoring them" - he must have thought I was an alien from outer space! But eventually he realised I was serious and stopped. I was taking a huge gamble cause I felt pretty needy and scared of the future with DC's then(still do a bit) but I knew I would have to follow it through in order to be happy.

I see what you mean about him feeling threatened because of his history with his dad. It's just so hard to remain rational when you are hurting, so sometimes I think I overreact and turn into a mad banshee if I feel I'm not being heard.
Now I'm feeling worn out by having to implement all these strategies to get him to listen because he can't have a normal discussion and is so selfish. Why should I if he doesn't take me feelings into account?

Think you are right, we could relate to each other alot better - I feel like I try to do that (and sometimes fail) and he doesn't even bother trying and does everything in a back-handed way.