How do I stop being invisible?

[AisieSusie]

I was hoping to tap into the mumsnet fount of knowledge & get some useful practical advice on getting people to hear & respond to my needs and feelings without having to make a huge fuss & totally over react to get anyone to notice. I have never been any good at it (I've recently realised why, my mother was & is an emotional tyrant & never legitimised anyones feelings and emotional state but her own, whilst making me & my sister totally subvervient to her wishes & unreasonable needs , but with my dad still totally ignoring her feelings & pretending none of this existed) , and it's made me pretty unhappy over the years, but now i'm really a breaking point & feel like even I am starting to believe I don't exist.

How can I demand the same respect & caring that other people get naturally? How can I say something about my feelings & not have it ignored?

The situation is that gradually & overwhelmngly My dh is making me feel invisible, & I know it's an awful
relationship but I also know that I want to try for just a bit longer & part of that must be in changing how I act and speak. I have sacrificed so much for this man cos I love him & he's had alot of bad in his life & I naturally wanted to help him, but I seem to have subjugated all my needs & feelings & dignity & now I just can't do it anymore.
Today we had a horrible argument when I told him I can't take it anymore, but it ended not clearly & I was too upset to persue it further but I think he's not heard I thing I have said... & everything I am upset about has been left unresolved, which is ironic as the main thing was about how my needs & feelings get ignored...
In the past when I've been going through a horrible time I've asked friends for help by text, phone or face to face, & often got no response or recognition of how desperate I was feeling / how much I needed their help & support, & then after when everything fine again they say they didn't even know how bad things were, & would have helped 'if they'd known'. Also at work I can't get people to really listen to me, I end up being ignored or I'll say something then someone cooler/ more respected will paraphrase it & get credit.
I thought that if you acted kind & considerate & empathetic & supportive that's what you'd get back, but it seems all I get back is doing lots for others & just having to be strong by myself or ignore my own
feelings & just get on with it. I feel like I am a ghost in my own life.
The only way I can get people (esp dh) to listen is to cry & have hysterics and scream & shout, when I just can't take it anymore, but that only works a bit & then he tunes out or makes me feel like a hsyertical bitch.

So sorry for the long post, but really, how do i stop being invisible and invalid and hardly 'present'?

No helpfull advice to the op sweetness ? Or have you just followed me here to correct my spelling ? Perhaps you can tell this poster that her her experience is not real too.

You ARE ALREADY looking after you baby whilst the man you have done so much for,treats you in an emotionally abusive way,controlling you and not meeting any of your needs.

If he was not there,you would continue to look after your baby,and my guess is that this would be easier for you - I find breastfeeding ,my milk supply,relaxing ,letting-down-so much easier now that my abusive xp is no longer controlling me.

Stating your needs,communicating with your h about daily stuff is not nagging.

He is making you feel miserable and sick and tense,all of which make caring for a little baby much more difficult.

Your heart is being broken by your h's behaviour NOW,that is why it feels as though your world is collapsing.

That is normal under any circumstances,but far more intense and difficult to cope with so soon after giving birth,whilst b'feeding,and with all the hopes and dreams you had for your marriage and your dc being thrown into question.

I find I dissolve into tears just watching my baby's face as she feeds when I think of what her f has done.

You are doing so well and you will survive.

Imagine the peace and tranquillity of caring for your baby and you without the anxiety and nastiness. You already have the pain and misery.

Be strong.
I'll be thinking of you as I feed through another night!

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Sweetness , it isnt really apropriate to come onto a thread with the intention of aggravating a poster. If you dont like what i said on the other thread about you being abusive perhaps go back and address it there. I honestly dont think anyone gives a toss about the odd spelling mistake and your pointing it out says a lot more about you than it does me.

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I have no axe to grind, but I think crashing a heartfelt thread like this is horrendously crass. Please, allsweetness, your pettiness is rather toxic and I think you should take it elsewhere.

OP, far from being invisible, you come across to me as reasoned, articulate and strong Nothing to add to the advice that's been given, really, just wanted to wish you well and say I think you are demonstrating great courage and I can't help but think, with that attitude, things will improve for you, even though it will be hard.

far from allsweetness

please. apologies not appoligies

fuck off please. dear.

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gosh.

allsweetness - go away,don't come back.

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Sweetness , youve been invited to return to the other thread to discuss your objections to what i said. You have returned, but only to further ridicule posters on that thread.

Your desperation for a reaction is evident there , particularly as the thread is about people like you, so no one is going to engage in your nonsense. Now youve wandered over here to hijack this thread to see if you can get a reaction here , and im sure you will , good luck with it.

Youll be able to go to bed feeling a lot better once youve dumped your toxic crap on others.

Thank you for all the helpful posts, lots to think aboutwhich will do in morning as brain not coherent now.

Slightly derailed by Allsweetness, who seems to think it's fine to come onto a highly personal & tentatively posted thread to hound people who are trying to be really lovely & helpful & supportive. I guess it's a good example of making people feel invisible, humm.

AisieSusie

I'm coming at this from a total stranger's viewpoint so sorry if this sounds harsh.

Maybe your friends are tuning out because they partially see you as being complicit in your own situation - eg husband is an abusive, lazy, self obsessed twat, yet instead of booting him out, you have a baby with him. It can get wearing listening to friend's problems when they dont seem to do anything to allevate that situation so the problems are the same 3 years later. This is especially true if they feel their advice is being ignored.

Tbh, I think you should kick "D"H into touch. There is a risk that you are a visa bride, as I imagine you already suspect, and his behaviour may well improve, until you fork out the 3G for the new visa. You sound like a caring, intelligent person and you can find someone far better than this. You are not morally bound to this man. You've done far too much already at the expense of your own sanity.

Write him out of your life and move on.

Best of luck x

i think your ultimatum was the right thing to do. you MUST stick to your guns now or the battle is lots.

you are worth so much more. if you don't do this for yourself, do this for your dc.

Well done for your ultimatum! To get around the fact that you want a clear response when the week is up but don't want to nag, I would say to him something like 'i'm cooking us a nice meal on Saturday evening next week so we can sit and talk without distractions. I will not mention it at all before Saturday to give us both space to think about things, but I do expect a clear response on Saturday about how things will be going forward if we are to stay together. I hope we can work things out'
and what I'd do on Saturday would be start by saying 'what have you decided?' and if he says he wants you to stay together then ask him how he plans to change things to make things better. No vague promises of 'i'll change' or 'I'll try hatder' but concrete plans of HOW he will change are needed here.
Have a think yourself about what ideally you'd like him to do to change and then you will have a clearer idea on sat of how his thoughts stand up to yours.
Good luck

Well done for your ultimatum, but being nice for a week isn't too difficult.

What worries me is that as soon as he gets his visa, he'll slip back into treating you like his servant and you'll be £3,000 worse off.

I know that I sound negative, but I have (in my own and other's relationships) seen men promise to change, sustain it for a short while and then gradually slip back to their old behaviours.

Is there any way that you can tell him that he has to have found a job- any job to start with, in order for you to pay for his visa.

I am very concerned that you have a tiny baby and you are getting deeper and deeper into debt, for a man who doesn't have any respect for you.

There are a few thoughts going on in this thread (slightly incoherantly sorry)

1. I feel invisible & want to be more of a person instead of a shadow
2. The ultimate invisibility & powerlessness I feel in my relationship
3. What am doing to try & change this situation, & how scary/ difficult it is

The first point relates to all communication, not just sharing problems with friends. It's about work, home, family, at the gp etc
I guess asking for help/ needing support is the litmus test of this though, as it's the real indicator that somehow I cannot get people to see me as a valid human & entitled to that bill of rights another poster posted here.

Thebride - I think you sound like an echo from my own head, & although sure you were trying to be helpful it has made me quite upset, as that's exactly what I think everyone always thinks about anything I am going through, or any point I want to make. I guess that's a bit of a trigger for me, as of course no ones going to care/ be interested in a problem if it continues, I have learnt that lesson very well.

Except really big problems do tend to continue, & that's one of the things that really gets me - why do I not have the right to feel things more than once? I know you meant just my marriage, but in RL this reasoning seems to extend to all big things in my life, like my unhealthy relationship with my parents, or my sister dying horrifically, or work trying to push me out when they heard I was pregnant.

I guess I have learnt that I can't complain or let people see how much I hurt as it's even worse when they don't care or think I should be over it. But is life like this for everyone? It seems so cruel & lonely. And if it's different for other people, why? What did I do that makes me so inconsequential. Sorry really upset about this now so going to stop.

Life isnt like this for everyone, but this was how things were for a long time for me. Like you, i did ask for things, i did say when i was upset, no one listened , nothing changed , and i think its because although i was asking , i didnt really feel i deserved it.

I dont think the problem here is getting others to see that your a valid person and entitled to basic rights, i think the problem is getting YOU to see it and beleive it.

My family were rather dysfunctional to say the least, i learnt i didnt matter, i had to be nice and look after others. If i asked for something i was being selfish. It stayed with me for a long time and was hard to undo.
Oh, and the guilt, i always felt guilty about asking or saying.

Part of the problem is that although you are objecting , your not backing it up with actions. How long have you been unhappy with the way your dh has been treating you ?

Deep breath now,...this stuff has taken a lifetime of practice for you to feel as you do.....you are now asking for help by posting here .....it's just the start it will take time and practice to make big changes...and you can and will get there.....

You are feeling pain because the words of one post echo some of your internal negative self-talk......yet there have been many more posts which have sounded/felt encouraging and positive...

(btw,I don't think bride was intending to be hurtful,as she says- a different viewpoint which may sound harsh)

I agree with Dignified - YOU need to learn to believe that you are a valid person - then an expressed opinion such as brides will not touch you in this way.

I too have felt like this for most of my life and am working on making the changes I need to live the rest of my life free from abuse.

Its a slow process,and it hurts,but it ha to be better than the pain of being invisible.

You CAN do this

uch

Oh Dignified your words do ring true. My family always made me feel very guilty & spoilt for asking anything or wanting anyone to care about my feelings. Looking back I had a very strange upbringing, which was always on other peoples terms & about conforming to others reality regardless of what was really going on. I could identify some of the obvious stuff as wrong & screwing me up, but not the more insidious stuff. Anyway I was always told I was spoilt & demanding & attention seeking and immature, when now I look back, I was anything but. However it's left me with bits missing, I feel so inept at making myself 'present', & getting into a positive dynamic where people relate to me as a respected equal.
Have just had a moment of realization, one of the elements of my job that I most like is faciliation of events. I thought I liked the performing element of it & guiding people towards a solution & shaping an experience, but it now strikes me maybe am drawn to it as people don't recognise how hard the facilitator works or how much emotional energy is invested to get the good result. Also all the interaction is about the participants, not the faciliator. it's all about constructing an experience (a reality?) that panders to other peoples feelings, & even on the day, I end up sacrificing breaks/ lunch etc to organize behind the scenes, & the mark of a good workshop is when no one can can how much work has gone into it behind the scenes, or how much the faciliator has steered the event.

Hummm, maybe I am re-enacting quite a negative situation each time I facilate? Gosh that's something to think about, if so, no wonder I am good at it.

And yes, you right I talk the talk but when things don't change I don't act/ react accordingly, I just give in, & I guess people can sense that. Have been unhappy with the way dh treats me for 4-5 yrs, but always am making excuses for him. I mean, he has very good excuses for being screwed up, but I guess that's still no reason to let him treat me badly...

AisieSusie you sound incredibly strong and very articulate, although you say you ask people for help and reach out i imagine you actually come across as very competent and able, even while you are saying you need help and support.
Do you ever say to friends 'i need a hug'? Or does you complicated situaion and general ableness mean that friends feel challenged to offer you solutions rather than just a hug? maybe they don't feel able?

perhaps you need to practice saying 'not too great actually' when people you trust ask how you are? i know i only have a couple of people i feel comfortable saying this to but it does help if when somebody says 'how are you' you answer 'really stressed right now actually' or 'a bit overwhelmed' or 'exhausted'. it opens the situation for a more honest conversation.

in terms of your DH.. what do you want him to do that's concrete? he obviously can't live off you indefinately with a baby in the picture and definately not if you were to have a second child. is he allowed to work legally? if so then i can't help thinking you need to insist that he does, one to take pressure and responsibility off you, two to build his own sense of responsibility for his family, and three for his own self esteem and role in his own life and new country.

good luck.

Thanks pinemartina, taking deep breaths now!
I know (with my head anyway) that bride was trying to inject a different perspective, not be hurtful. I guess it took me by surprise how her words made me feel though, makes me realised how not centred I am. It's demoralizing after spending so much effort everyday trying to sure myself up to be derailed so easily.

Practice is a good way to see it, just not quite sure what am supposed to be doing that's different.

(saw your back story pinemartina, absolutely horrendous, think you are a very strong woman to be getting through this AND having emotional energybleft to help others)

I think its fantastic your now questioning this , it can be quite powerfull but also deeply upsetting. With regards to re enacting things , do you see any similaritys between your parents marriage and your own ?

I seem to have attracted similar people throughout my whole life based on early models from my parents , even down to freinds. Want to whinge and moan for hours ? Ring Dignified ! But when ive rang them with problems, theyve not been interested. Even my bloody dog wouldnt listen to me.

At the end of a very abusive marriage i eventually found a fantastic counseller , and things improved from there. When i look back now, i feel like i wasnt really here , wasnt really experiencing things like others did,i was just a shadow , and thats because i wasnt here in the way i should have been.

The counseller spoke to me about boundarys , i was a bit " what are those " and it being ok to say No to people, that i dont owe them anything, its not my job to make others happy or sacrifice myself. No one ever thanks you, they just want more and more of you until theres nothing left. Each counselling session was like a thousands lightbulbs going off , and although some of it was a bit deep on occasion, she was like an old freind and we would laugh too.

None of this is your fault Aisie ( sorry ive previously called you aussie ). Although i know your hurt by brides comments , i think she is rightly identifying your relationship as toxic for you at the moment.

Theres lots of womens centres around that offer free counselling , i strongly recomend calling womans aid.

Fluffles, thanks, I think I do come across as stronger & not needy , total dislocation from the reality though & I guess I don't know how to bridge the gap so let it built up til I have a meltdown on someone & then feel awful, not coping, needy, unpleasant & hysterical.
I tend to make a joke of everything, have noticed I can be quite lighthearted in the way I speak about things, sort of gallows humour/ war time spirit type of attitude. I guess that might confuse people.

I also can't seem to get the pace of a conversation right, it's like am missing the bit of social competence that gets supportive conversations rather than superficial chat / extreme misery.

There's a kind if dance where both people progress a conversation & each picks up on what the other says & gradually you get synconised & more intimate. I can't seem to do this very well, so i feel like am putting out cues I'd like to talk about something/ am sad or something, & somehow the other person doesn't pick them up & so the conversational dance doesn't lead that way. I can't tell if it's me not knowing how to express things or if the other person knows how I feel/ what am cueing, & deliberately doesn't want to go there (too boring, don't care, feels it's not appropriate etc)