How can I tactfully explain to my friend that her daughters obsession with mine is upsetting DD.

[sandyballs]

Our daughters are 9 and in the same class at school. Me and mum have been friendly since reception and we see each other with the kids out of school on occasions, with dads and our other children too.

My friends daughter (let's call her DF) has always wanted my DD to play with her exclusively, she doesn't like sharing her with other school friends and used to get quite aggressive and physical with her when she did dare to play elsewhere. We have talked about this with both girls and the mum agrees that this is wrong and has tried to explain to DF not to be like this with DD - incidentally DF has mild special needs, she is a bit behind academically and has mild speech problems.

Approx six months ago DD became very friendly with a group of 3 other girls in the class, who didn't particularly like DF and DD felt torn between them. I tried to encourage DD to split her time between them and to explain to DF that she was still her friend but needed other friends etc.

The mum made an appointment with school, complained that this group of girls were being unkind to DF by not including her - I disagreed, I don't think that is particularly unkind, kids have to get used to the fact that they aren't always included in everything. School then insisted that this group had to include DF in their play - there are 60 kids in the year, I felt that they should have encouraged DF to make other friends. One teacher even said to me that she felt sorry for my DD 'being stuck in the middle of it all'.

Things have come to a head this week with DF getting very stroppy with DD at Brownies when she chose another friend to share a room with on brownie hols - turned on the tears and ended up sharing with her and this other friend.

Then I happened to mention to my friend in conversation that DD has joined a girls football team. I got a text that night saying that she had put DF's name down, even though I know she has no interest in football. I told DD this morning and she cried and said 'I just need a break from her sometimes mummy' .

Sorry this is so so long and thank you if you've got to the bottom of it. I do feel for this little girl, particularly as she has special needs, but I feel I need to put my DDs needs first as this is bothering her so much. Any similar experiences or advice out there?

Poor DF bet she's really upset being left out, oh well least your child is happy with her new friend's eh.

Move house and schools!

Your DD is right though, it is not good for her to have the pressure of the other girls problems, sad as they are. It would be like being a full-time carer.

I would speak to the other girls mum if that is possible and let her know how your DD feels.

If she takes offense then there is nothing you can do. But this can only be resolved by talking.

It isn't fair for your DD to be relied on so much though and be made to feel responsible for the other girl all of the time.

Sandy - its a very difficult path to tread.

I wonder if you could perhaps speak to the school and outline your concerns - are they in the same class?

Thesunshine - I think thats a bit unkind. OP doesn't want to be mean but its not fair on her DD either.

Your dd has reached the age when she wants to choose her own friends,not those whose mum is friendly with her mum.
I had a similar problem with dd in yr 4 with a very controlling girl who was the dd of my best friend- ended up with my dd being physically hurt by her, and school intervening (no longer bfs...)
I think you may need to have another chat with your friend- explain your dd is growing up and is finding the friendship hard. It is a very awkward situation, but it is not fair on your own dd. And also speak with school.

You can do nothing about school and who your dd plays with etc - but you can outside of school keep you mouth shut about whats happening and distance yourselves.

Your dd sounds like she has tryed hard to be a good friend but that now she is the one being hounded.

I agree that the school and DF mum should be encouraging to socialise with other children and people and not put all eggs in your DD basket so to speak. Would be good for her socially to branch out a bit and give your poor DD a break too.

Poor DF. She was me (except I didn't have special needs). I know it's tough for your DD, but it's far far more painful for DF. Odd-ones-out can be difficult to put up with. And little girls can also be unbelievably cruel with their changing friendships and cliques and exclusions. I am not in any way saying that your DD is like this she sounds like a nice child who has tried her best but I wouldn't bet on the new friends being the same.

Not much anyone can do, I'm afraid. Girls will be girls, and no adult can force children to be friends with each other. It still makes my heart break.

To answer your question, you can't tactfully explain that. Put yourself in her shoes. Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

In answer to your question, I think you are going to have to be very brave! But yes, do talk to her. From what you have written, it sounds like you would be kind. Be diplomatic but not so diplomatic that she doesn't get it! Perhaps after you have outlined the problem for your daughter you could listen to her side and then try and find solutions together?

Trouble, is, if the mother has now put DF down for the football, it sounds like you might have a tough time getting her to understand it from your DD's POV. I do.

I believe in teaching children to be kind to each other, of course, however, I also firmly believe that you shouldn't make kids play with children they don't want to play with. What a horrible powerless situation to be in. Much better to get the teacher to encourage other children who want to play with DF to play with her. There must be some, surely, in a whole class.

The thing about the Brownie holiday thing is a typical unthoughtout reaction too. Your poor dd - she chose someone else to be with and even that gets changed. I really feel for your DD. But of course I hope that DF's mum and teacher get up off their butts to help her. You may have to push them. Seems to me, that this is what is needed.

I also think it is nothing to do with girls being girls. As adults, we don't want to be friends with everyone do we? Children have preferences too.

Thanks for all your replies. I don't mean to come across as harsh and unfeeling towards DF, I do feel for her and perhaps I would be behaving in a similar way to her mother if I were in her shoes, who knows.

The bottom line IMO though is that DD is my first priority and she is stuck in the middle of this situation. Like some of you have said on here, I strongly feel that the school is wrong to insist on everyone playing together, it seems they have taken the easy option by 'enforcing' this rather than looking at the bigger picture and encouraging DF to make other friends.

The thing is, DD likes DF, she does want to play with her and do things with her, but not exclusively and the way it is going she will probably end up pushing DD away from her completely.

I hate confrontation but I know I do have to talk to her mum and be honest about how I and DD are feeling about all this, and listen to her views of course. And possibly include teachers.

She texts me every morning to see if DD is having school dinners or packed lunch, that's how bad it has got, surely she should see it is a bit obsessive, i would refuse to do that if one of my DDs asked me to. This makes me think that my conversation with her is going to be rather hard.

I think the school need to handle this better tbh. My ds was a bit like this at pre-school. He has AS and became obsessed with one of the other children, following them round and sitting so close to her at carpet time that he was practically sitting on her knee.

Letting it continue would have done no-one any favours. The staff were careful to direct them towards different activities and encouraged ds to spend more time with other children. It worked well.

If the school intervene I think they would be doing DF as much of a favour as your dd. She (DF) obviously needs help and encouragement to find new friends. It would benefit DF and hopefully also lead to the mother becoming less 'intense' about the friendship with your dd.

Tbh at the very least I would ignore the morning texts asking whether your dd is having school dinners or not.

Good luck with the talk.

I really feel or your dd Sandy. My dd is 11 and has had this twice.

Once at infant school but the worst was about 18 mths ago with a friend who absoultely would not allow her to play or even speak to anyone else. It was awful.

The girl was obvioulsy clingy in the extreme. Dd is a kind soul and hated to see her upset and always asked her to play alongside her with others, but no that didn't work at all. She only wanted dd entirely to herself.

The friend found playing the emotional card quite effective by bursting into tears and creating scenes naming dd as the one who had upset her by being unkind. Dd would be mortified. It was utterly untrue and dd stared to become isolated and quite low. I was very worried for her. The school seemed unconcerned and didn't really do much. To them it was just girls being girls

Thankfully the friend moved away and dd became a different person free from her. I too was quite friendly with the mother. If she had stayed I definately would have had to explain that her dd would have to be less demanding. Unfortunately there was going to be no other way. It would probably have caused an uncomfortable situation between the mother and me but I was prepared for that. I felt my dd was being emotionally bullied.

I have always stressed to all my dc that no-one has the right to prevent them from being friends with whoever they wish. A true friend doesn't make stipulations like that.

Blimey - some of you are being a bit harsh to the OP. Of course she feels for the DF. I think that's perfectly clear from her post.

I think talking to the school would be the best approach. Have a quiet word, don't tell your DD and don't tell DF's mum. Given that the mum is clearly indulging her DD, I don't think that having a word is going to get you anywhere. I'd just not tell her what your DD is up to and if she texts to ask what your DD is having for lunch, breezily say that you don't know yet. My nephew who has ASD is very clingy like coppertop's DS but the school have been very careful to try and encourage him to play with other children and that really is the best approach - for all the children involved.

I think if you let it continue, you risk your DD coming to hate this other little girl and that's the way bullying starts IMO. You really need to nip it in the bud.

Just wanted to add my support. I actually experienced this myself as a child. I moved to a new school aged 8 and was "adopted" by another girl who was very controlling and for the next 3 years I made hardly any other friends. It sounds a little like what your DD is facing. She always just wanted it to be me and her and got this through emotional blackmail.

Anyway, eventually her family emigrated and I was free (that is literally how I felt) but I've had a complete aversion to anyone who shows slight signs of clinginess ever since- always tried to avoid having a "best" friend etc, drifted on the outside of groups through secondray school in case I got "trapped" again.

I think the school is very misguided to force this friendship. I know they should be firm on bullying, but not wanting to hang out with someone is not bullying.

Good advice there Bendybob.

I think DF, for her own sake, needs to be encouraged by all to cast her net wider. By putting all her eggs in your DD's basket, she is making herself so vulnerable. It's getting DF and her mum to understand that your DD choosing a different friend to play with doesn't therefore mean that she doesn't like DF. They really do need to grasp this otherwise, as someone else said, the upshot will be that your DD pushes her away completely.

It sounds like DF has a real problem with shyness (which TBH I can sympathise with as I had problems when I was a child).

I know it is not helpful to you particularly but what would be helpful to DF would be if she found her own interests and hobbies (which is something my parents always pushed with me). Could you suggest this to the mother? It also sounds like the mother is partially encouraging DF by not asking her to invite other friends over.

I am not sure what DF realises what she is doing, but she must be aware that her behaviour is powerful and it allows her to always get her way. What is happening is a form of emotional blackmail.

Also agree with those who said you should approach the school again and talk it through with them - it's no use you trying to extracate your DD if school are pushing them together.

I hate confrontation too This will probably be a tricky call for you Sandy. Involve the school if you can but you may have to speak to the mother about it somehow.

With us, the way I saw it was this. I knew if I had to tell the mother what was going on and that it must stop, we would possibly not have the friendship we once had. Understandably she was hardly going to like me for it, even though I would have tried to be considerate.

But if I lost her friendship, well, I have other friends. Dd didn't. She wasn't allowed any and I couldn't let that situation continue. She was my priority and no-one else was going to help her.

Crying and saying 'I just need a break from her sometimes mummy' is so heartbreaking. It brings it all back actually, my dd was just the same. Exhausted by it

And if it brings things to a head it will not only liberate your dd but alert the school and the mother to the fact that the friend needs help. Allowing this to continue won't help her with friendships ultimately.

OP - I feel for you and you seem to be really sensitive to everyone's needs.

This is going to be hard. But you need to have a little chat with DFs mum and explain this is potentially being counter-productive - but really really reinforce the message that your DD loves DF and wants to be her friend because of course that is what she is anxious about. Keep reinforcing that message but explain that your daughter needs a little space and that it is also really important for DF to have a wider set of friends for her own sake.

You also do need to speak to the school.

Then, gradually stop feeding DFs mums obsession where it's unreasonable (I wonder whether she has the same social anxieties her daughter has???). Don't text back (say your phone was flat), don't tell her what your DD is up to, etc. You need to cultivate a bit of an air of mystery and just be less open. As people say on here often, no is a complete sentence.

But at the same time, ensure there are regular playdates in the calendar etc so DF knows she has her friend - but just space them out a little.

With a little bit of kindness, which you are showing in spades, and with you being consistent and strong and the adult in all this, you could end up with a win-win.

"She texts me every morning to see if DD is having school dinners or packed lunch, that's how bad it has got..."

That's beyond belief! Not that I disbelieve you, of course but it is ridiculous under the circumstances. Do you facilitate it by answering? I wouldn't, personally, not if I knew it would lead to one of my DD's being forced into an uncomfortable situation, repeatedly.

You do sound very considerate of DF in your post, as does your DD but DF is being encouraged into controlling and needy behaviour.

Are there other activities available that you can take you DD to and not actively make DF/her mum aware of? Your DD really does have the right to autonomy over who she shares time with and when. Anything including DF sounds like it will be a stressful rather than enjoyable activity, when things don't go DF's way.

Someone mentioned shyness earlier wrt DF. I doubt it! As a shy child I was submissive and wouldn't have dreamed of tantruming or making a scene, I didn't think I was deserving of others attention and would never have tried to demand it.

How about suggesting to DF mother that your DD and DF have regular playdates once a week or once a fortnight- so that DF knows she will still have DD as a close friend, but then say that you are concerned that your DD is becoming over reliant on DF's friendship and that you want her to do activities without DF so that she can develop independant friendships. Stressing that you think it is important for both girls to develop other friendships independant from each other may make it seem less like DD is pushing DF away, and placing the emphasis on DD needing to develop independant social skills may remind DF mother that DF needs the same

How's it going sandyballs?

Hi, sorry I haven't responded sooner, work has been manic.

Thanks again for all your replies, good to get different perspectives on it, and also interesting to hear your own experiences of a similar problem.

Well, I plucked up the courage to talk to the mum yesterday. Had a long chat about DF and DD and how upset DD is about the obsessiveness of the relationship and how suffocated she feels. Mum responded well, said she hadn't realise how bad it had all got, said she would chat to DF about giving her more space, allowing her to play with others etc. I felt much happier last night and so did DD.

Woke up this morning to a text - 'Hi, is DD having school dinners or packed lunch, as DF wants to eat with her' .

I'm stunned really, did she not take in a thing I said! I ignored the text obviously, but feel I'm back to square one.