Should I tell DH how DS#1 feels or should I let DS do it?

[OrmRenewed]

DH is struggling with DS#2 atm. We both are -I've posted about him many times. I lose my rag sometimes and I know I am not perfect. But when I have I always says sorry and we have a cuddle. DH tends to just get more and more cross - we went to Bristol today and DS#1 was patient enough being dragged around shops which didn't interest him. Then we spent 30mins in the museum for DS#2's benefit. Not surprisingly he didn't want to leave and being the child he is, kicked off. DH was grumpy in the car, snapping at the boys and when we got home and DS~2 didn't get out of the car quickly enough he hauled him out and into the house - DS fell over and cried.

I told him I thought he was out of order - he told me that he wasn't He refuses to apologise because he didn't do anything wrong. And logically he didn't - he didn't smack him he didn't deliberately hurt him but he actions resulted in DS~2 crying. Parenst IMO should say sorry.

Anyhow.... DS#1 got snapped at by DH at this point over nothing because he was now in a vile mood (and feeling guilty).

All the kids hate it when DH gets his black cloud. I have tried to explain - he inists it's DS#2's fault (which it is to a certain extent but he's the adult).

I have told DS#1 and DD that they need to explain to DH how he makes them feel. I think it might be a good way to get him to understand. Is this a good idea? I don't think it is helpful always being the go-between - for a start it can drive a wedge between DH and I and I always seem to be complaining about him on their behalf.

Any views?

I would have probably left him in the car for a bit. Although think you said it wasn't possible on this occasion.

Isn't there also something about dcs getting attention for bad behaviour and therefore its repeated again and again because any attention is good attention - especially if they are craving it from him. Don't know if they are or aren't craving it in your situation.

And if they are similar in personality then they will clash and your h will have to pick his battles. By refusing to apologise to your DS he also sounds stubborn.

And I don't necessarily buy this good men often do bad things theory. It seems that generally the women have all the angst and worry about situations like this trying to mediateand smooth over situations and the men just carry on with their black moods/bad behaviour etc. Often with a sense of an entitlement.

I suppose what I am saying is that some men (including my exh) just seem to feel entitled to behave like that.

I do also think that family trips with dc's of big age gaps (including my own) are vastly overrated and often a source of falling out/stress/arguments.

"But adults sometimes run out of patience and lose their temper - and then say "sorry". "

Well exactly whenwill - and it's the last part that DH can't seem to manage. He can't draw a line and move on.

Orm I hope you'll see I was trying to bring a bit of perspective to your thread because it seemed to be heading in a way that made your H sound more sinister than he is - and seemed to be suggesting that you are hurting your DCs by putting up with it.

I've been having a think about your situation (again!) and I do see the black moods as a problem. I wonder why he gets them? Do you think it's possible at all that they are linked to the general situation between you?

I don't think there is a situation between us these days - we have had a major improvement in our relationship. Started appreciating each other a bit more, being kinder. In fact it's better than it's ever been I think.

And his black moods were present long before now - I think they are his rather than ours. I tend to blame FIL TBH. He left a big bloody hole in his DC's lives when he left and all of them are still feeling the effects even though (partly because) FIL has been dead for 13 years.

I have asked him to seek counselling but he swears he has dealt with it - I don't agree but it isn't my head, it's his.

BTW I did appreciate your post, thanks. It was getting a bit grim.

Orm, I see what you're saying - I personally have removed my DDs from the car physically, brought them into the garden (where they are safe and I can see them) then left them there to scream out their frustration. But I always go out after a few minutes and offer them cuddles and help to calm down.

Does your DH have a problem with saying sorry to anyone? My DH is not good with the 'S' word - never has been, even with me, which took me a bit to get used to (my family are very big on saying sorry). However, his actions will do it for him - he will cuddle, play a favourite game for the DDs, something.

Is it worth having a family meeting? Ask the children how they would like you to deal with things? Ignore me if I'm way off base here, my DDs are all much younger, so I don't know if that's asking too much of children the ages of yours.

Sympathies.

Thanks poledra. Yes he does have trouble with sorry - don't we all at times. But he seems to think that as parents we shouldn't be wrong. Since being a parent I have been much more aware of my failings and am always prepared to say sorry, I made a mistake.

We are fairly sure that DS#2 is on the autistic spectrum - there is no other way to explain his general inability to compromise, to understand other people's emotions, his obsession with order and pattern - but DH, for an intelligent and caring man, is completely unable to see that we need a new way of parenting. Currently our lives are dominated by DS#2's needs and moods. I think your idea of a family council (possibly without DS#2 is an excellent idea) but not sure DH would go for it. He wants us to be the ones who make the decisions but freely admits we are failing to make the right ones with DS#2 currently.

We have "family councils" from time to time and I'd really recommend them. We have "rules" though - everyone has to own their feelings, so it's more about "when you do this, I feel..." than "you make me feel..", a behaviour can be criticised, but not the person; basic feedback skills really.....

These air-clearing sessions also help no end with sibling squabbles!

I feel passionately that children have the right to be treated with respect and dignity and it is a current soapbox issue in our household at the moment. Our teenagers are learning that strangers (shopkeepers especially) treat them with far less courtesy than that offered to adults.

I'm glad your relationship has improved Orm, but one of the reasons I queried it was that an inability to admit being wrong and being grumpy and moody would have a massive effect on my intimate relationship. I wondered whether insisting that your H works on his anger and moodiness would have even more dramatic effects than you've achieved so far?

From what you've said you see, this seems to be a recurrent problem for you. I don't think you should put up with it and I think if your H actually did something to resolve it (counselling sounds a good idea tbh) then I think all your lives would improve, but his especially....