Should I tell DH how DS#1 feels or should I let DS do it?

[OrmRenewed]

DH is struggling with DS#2 atm. We both are -I've posted about him many times. I lose my rag sometimes and I know I am not perfect. But when I have I always says sorry and we have a cuddle. DH tends to just get more and more cross - we went to Bristol today and DS#1 was patient enough being dragged around shops which didn't interest him. Then we spent 30mins in the museum for DS#2's benefit. Not surprisingly he didn't want to leave and being the child he is, kicked off. DH was grumpy in the car, snapping at the boys and when we got home and DS~2 didn't get out of the car quickly enough he hauled him out and into the house - DS fell over and cried.

I told him I thought he was out of order - he told me that he wasn't He refuses to apologise because he didn't do anything wrong. And logically he didn't - he didn't smack him he didn't deliberately hurt him but he actions resulted in DS~2 crying. Parenst IMO should say sorry.

Anyhow.... DS#1 got snapped at by DH at this point over nothing because he was now in a vile mood (and feeling guilty).

All the kids hate it when DH gets his black cloud. I have tried to explain - he inists it's DS#2's fault (which it is to a certain extent but he's the adult).

I have told DS#1 and DD that they need to explain to DH how he makes them feel. I think it might be a good way to get him to understand. Is this a good idea? I don't think it is helpful always being the go-between - for a start it can drive a wedge between DH and I and I always seem to be complaining about him on their behalf.

Any views?

I agree with activate. Normal families fall out. Normal families make up, either by talking or just letting things go & accepting that others mess up sometimes.

Orm's dh will probably feel a bit bad now and make an effort to make friends with ds2. Probably not by saying anything, because they're male, but if they're anything like my dh and ds when they've fallen out, over some ps3 game.

God it sounds like they are too scared of him to actually articulate how they feel.

Out yourself in your youngest boys shoes - he is behaving like he is because he is a child and that is how most 7 year olds behave - he is not causing your DH to snap back - your DH is doing that and that isn;t a sensible measured response.

How would you feel about your grandchild coming to you in 20 years time and saying they are scared of their father - because your children will more than likely parent like you and DH and if they see this as normal no amount of mummy cuddling and saying sorry is going to change that.

Your DH needs to stop blaming a child for his appauling behaviour and you need to see him man handling a child as exactly that - would it have been appropriate with and adult or would that adult have been able to press charges or attack back?

And lots of kids I see at work have issues with loving one parent but that parent doing nothing about the other parents behaviour and moods - the other parent more often than not they come to hate and eventually they hate the one who stood by and did nothing - because stopping this is doing something - telling him it is not good enough is not doing enough.

falling out with a 7 year old?? teenage years i can understand,but 7?? this is all alien to me,i have never come across this behaviour towards a child so young.

Do you know the more I read of this the more I think your husband is the one behaving more like a 7 year old.

Do you not think that your son is learning his challenging behaviour from his father?

Losing your temper and snapping at a child is fairly common, I would imagine. Dragging a child out of the car because they "didn't get out of the car quickly enough" (how long did he take?) and not seeing anything wrong with that would worry me a lot more.

If your dh won't listen to you when you speak to him about his behaviour, I seriously doubt that he will listen to his children either.

well that 7 year old is going to get more challenging as he gets older...so how will your dh handle him then i wonder?

Not Cabot circus ilove As you say it might explain it.

Can someone explain to me how to get a child out of car who won't come. Who won't respond to reason, persuasion or a raised voice. Unless you get hold of them and remove them. How else? This is an utterly adorable and loved child - but a child more stubborn than a mule and will more willpower than anyone I have ever met. My problem was with the way he behaved to DS afterwards - still cross and refusing to say sorry.

ANyway I talked to him. I got upset, he got defensive and in the end it ended up with his agreeing that he has no idea how to deal with DS#2. That makes 2 of us I have finally got him to agree to reading The Explosive child - I read it and it made sense to me but no good carrying it out on my own. So that might help. I also managed to get to understand how his black moods affect everyone else. He's always been a bit like that - but pre-DC it didn't really matter, and pre=DS#2 they weren't that bad.

The whole thing is total shit and I am fed up with being stuck in the middle. I am always the one who brokers peace and tries to calm things down - I have had enough of it.

I knew I shouldn't post on here.

DH is now a child abuser and I am aiding and abetting him.

Yeah, thanks a lot

Someone call SS for me please as clearly I am putting my children at risk.

I don't feel that way Orm. I feel sad that it got twisted out of all proportion.

Orm I completely sympathise.

I've had similar problems with DH a few weeks ago , caused my massive sleep deprivation, grief, my PMT, depression and general step family stress.

Basically DH pushed ds1 in temper, whilst trying to stop baby dd from falling over.

He was completely wrong to do so but my god I over reacted. I told screamed at him in front of ds1 that our relationship was over, I informed ds1's teachers, I went as far as getting an injunction against him.

He was bad tempered but I was just as bad, in involving ds1 the extent I did

All has calmed down now after many long chats, and we are back on track but I wouldn't involve your dcs at this stage.

Orm I don't know the answer. I don't know if there is any single solution to the problem other than to keep talking. The older ones should be able to tell your DH how they feel, but it's another kettle of fish as far as your youngest is concerned. It's like a bunch of issues all rolled up into one mess that got out of hand.

Oh, and on a separate note, I'm doing the half marathon! So scared as the only run I do at the moment is the school run!

Orm

Well your last post just comes across to me as both defensive and silly. You are angry yes but you are angry at the wrong people here. How did you think people would react to what was written?. Your H caused all this to start with, it is down to him to sort out the issues surrounding his temper. He has to take responsibility here. You seem to have done an awful lot here with regards to him and his temper but with no real progress being made.

Parentline Plus may be helpful to call, that is not a reflection on your parenting.

You write that and I quote, "I also managed to get to understand how his black moods affect everyone else. He's always been a bit like that - but pre-DC it didn't really matter, and pre=DS#2 they weren't that bad".

Did it really not matter to you before the children came into being?. This is a long term problem. He needs to deal with his black moods properly and soon before he destroys his own self along any love you have for him and takes you all down with him in the process.

Bet you wish you hadn't posted now Orm

Just admit that he gets the stubborness from your DH - he sees him behaving in this way and copies him!

As for getting the kid out of the car you take the keys with you after you have locked it and tell him to toot the horn when he wants to come in and be part of the family rather than sit outside like a wally. No one has to get stressed - and your DH is behaving like a little child - no one said he was an abuser but he is behaving more like a 7 year old than your DS.

Is it really possible for people to change their moods?

Genuinely curious, as I remember my late grandfather's moods had the power to permeate the whole house and everyone tiptoes round my dad when he becomes 'thin lipped'.

I agree btw that it is your dh that has to change, as does my DH, although his moods are quite swift( and he was very shaken up by my reaction).

Think its depressing how women tolerate men's bad moods down the generations- my grandad had a special study he used to retreat into, where no-one else was allowed-how I'd love that!

What would you have done to get your DS out of the car? Because you asked that question yourself in a previous post, yet told your DH he was out of order to do what he did.

Do your DC talk to you about your DH? What prompted you telling them to tell their father how he made them feel?

Sorry - lots of questions

Why on earth not?. I for one was glad she had posted, it takes some guts to write what she did originally.

Now it is down to Orm as much as him to get this family back on track and it can be done if both really want it. It appears from what the OP has written that her H's "black moods" are a long standing problem. Now it is truly time for she and he to confront these problems properly. If not he will drag this family down with him.

my exh has a similar problem with ds1 - (they are very similar in personality with manhandling him).

When we were together I used to jump in the middle and intervene it used to make me sick to see a grown man abusing his power with a six year old boy.

Like OP's h my ex is extremely grumpy, moody and depressive.

I kept saying to him that if this continued when ds1 is a teenager (he is now 13) they would end up brawling on the floor.

I actually decided that this was not a healthy environment for ds's to be in.

They do still see him and there are still incidents. But exh has new p and dts - in front of her he is still sweetness and light but the other week when I came to pick him up ds1 referred to exh as Jekyll and Hyde!

Not good to have this situation imo

sorry should have said (they are very similar in personality) with manhandling him

Orm, I can really identify with the position you are in. I have had this with DH on and off for a number of years. The DS's push and push and where as I can (usually) tune out of it DH reacts, screams at them, is sometimes a bit too rough (def not abusive, but like you say how do you move a child that is adamant that they are staying still) and I was always the one in the middle trying to be the peace maker.

Anyway, a few months ago I'd really had enough. When DH came home from work it was like treading on eggshells. What would he over react to? Who would he lose his temper at?

I decided I had nothing to lose and discussed the whole situation. I said it was like having another child and I wasn't prepared to continue in this situation. He said he was exhausted/stressed at work, etc. These are all true but I said that was irrelevant. He was their father and how could he expect them to behave when that was the example he set. He had to learn to cope, pick his battles and work at making it a happier house - for us all.

It hasn't been easy but the change is massive. He talks rather than shouts, the kids want to be with him and the atmosphere is so much better.

I'm often beside him whispering instructions! "Leave it", "Pick your battles", "Have fun with them", etc, etc. Yes, in an ideal world it shouldn't need saying, but some people need a bit more help. He admits he finds parenting difficult so rather than seeing him as the enemy I'm now trying to be more supportive.

The real turning point was when I said that the boys dreaded him coming home because they knew the mood would change. He was so shocked because he really wants to be a good dad but doesn't always know how.

I don't know if this waffling post helps at all but I just want you to know you're not alone, to ignore those over dramatic posters and to give yourself a pat on the back for keeping it all together.

ptangy - excellent and useful post. Exactly the help Orm was looking for I would think.

Thanks everyone.

The point about it not being a problem before the children was that I can deal with it - I get moody too. People are just different. But the DC don't understand.

fallenmadonna - I'd just have left him there on this ocassion. But there are other times when that isn't an option and I've had to remove him kicking and screaming from somewhere. It wasn't that that I took issue with - it was his coldness and refusal to connect with DS afterwards when he as so upset. Yes they tell me how DH makes them feel - DS#1 did today. And it's very upsetting.

FIL left when DH was 4 - I do wonder if that has made parenting difficult for him. I'm not a perfect parent - far from it - but I am always always loving, my DC never have any doubt that I love them.

Yes thanks ptangy. It is helpful.

Hey Orm - I really sympathise. Everything I ever read about your H incidentally is that this is a good man, who like us all, sometimes gets it wrong and sometimes snaps. I think we need a dose of realism here - children can often be infuriating at this age.

You tried to cater for all the children today, but I suspect many of us know that feeling and have gone through exactly the same scenario with our children. As your DS had already tantrummed in the museum, after you had tried to give him an activity he would enjoy, I absolutely understand how frustrating it must have been when he wouldn't get out of the car.

I think what might help in this situation would be for your H to apologise to DS2 for losing his temper - and to apologise to DS1 for the bit of projected anger.

I remember one of your posts from long ago when you said that your H finds it hard to admit to the DCs that parents can sometimes be in the wrong - perhaps that's an area he can work on.

And it really does pass, this phase. I know my DH found our DD similarly infuriating when she was younger, but he and I talked a lot about how he reacted to her and he learned rather belatedly that defusing a situation with humour worked best for her - she actually found it impossible not to giggle when he was smiling and refusing to meet anger with anger. They also talk a lot more now and although she still has the capacity to exasperate - and would try the patience of a saint (especially when pre-menstrual!) he has a much better relationship with her now.

Of course he is the adult here. But adults sometimes run out of patience and lose their temper - and then say "sorry".