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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Not sure if I should forgive

27 replies

tametiger · 04/05/2010 13:17

My former husband and I had remained close and I regarded him as my best friend and family - we have known each other for 30 years. While we were married he let my son and myself down very badly - we lost our home because of his failed business ventures - but I retained a lot of love for him and had always hoped we could find a way to get together again. He wants to have a sexual relationship with me but doesn't want to move into my house (it's housing association and rural) as he says it's too isolated. He lives in a rented flat in town 10 minutes away.
Although I know he has been angry with me for not committing myself to the type of relationship he wants - I have been wary of getting hurt again - we have spent a lot of time together and he had seemed to accept the situation.
Two months ago I fell and broke my ankle and initially he was very helpful as I live alone with my dog. After two weeks of helping me he said I should rehome the dog as he didn't want to be responsible for walking him (I had arranged a neighbout to do that). When I said I didn't want to give up my pet he announced, over the phone, that I was mad and selfish and that he wasn't going to help me anymore and didn't want anything else to do with me. I was at home on my own, on crutches, unable to walk or drive, very frightened and feeling very isolated.
That was 6 weeks ago. Since then I have heard nothing, no phone calls, no e-mails. I know this is what he does - walks away when things get tough or difficult for him. He did it to me several times in the past.
The trouble is, I miss him all the time and can't believe it has come to this. I know I should feel angry but I just feel incredibly hurt and lonely and am fighting the urge to phone him and beg him to come and see me.
I expect this all sounds pathetic to other people and I know I have found the past months incredibly difficult. How long does it take to get over being kicked in the teeth by someone you thought was your friend?

OP posts:
Lovethesea · 04/05/2010 13:26

I think you can forgive someone but it doesn't mean you reconcile with them, or give them opportunity to hurt you again. That does no one any favours. I think better to forgive wisely than be bitter and consumed with anger towards them, but also be realistic with the trust or expectations you give them from now on.

It sounds as if you have many examples of being let down and your XDH choosing his convenience over your basic care. Expecting someone to rehome a pet because it might need some exercise is a gross lack of empathy of what pets are to us. I imagine your dog is far more company and loyal with it than your XDH.

I could only suggest not depending on him at all. If he is prepared to cut contact when you are vulnerable and hurt then he is trying to take all the power and control - him or the dog, I mean it's pathetic surely? Where is basic kindness or compassion let alone a special care for your history together.

Do all you can to make and build new friendships - anything local you can join in with? Online groups that meet in real life too? Book clubs? Dating sites if that would help! Anything to build friendships with people who won't treat you as worthless.

I think as you start to get other people in your life more you will miss him less and less, and then you will probably come to be angry with him. Choose a positive future, not one dependant on his whims and fancy. He has shown you his real feelings towards you by his actions. Forgive but move on - do not be his victim over and over.

lilacclaire · 04/05/2010 13:28

I think he's treated you appallingly and with no regard to your health/vulnerability.

Do you have any friends/family you can lean on just now for a bit more support, definetly keep posting on here as well, you'll get some great advice and motiviation.

I don't know how to stay strong, im still waiting to hear that secret myself!

AnyFucker · 04/05/2010 13:39

Good Lord, what a horrible, selfish man

Why on earth are you pining for a relationship with him ?

It sounds like you are just generally quite lonely. Once you are back on your feet, could you try and get more involved in community life so you don't feel so isolated ?

This self-centred sod is not the answer to your prayers, seriously

tametiger · 04/05/2010 14:18

I should add here that when our adopted son was a toddler my ex said it was 'me or him' meaning I should give up my son. I didn't of course. So, not just dogs then and not for the first time.

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AnyFucker · 04/05/2010 14:37

oh, fgs, move on with your life without him in it

peekabooyoufucksyou · 04/05/2010 14:39

I understand your feelings, but he doesn't sound worth it. If you contact him he'll screw up again, and it'll take you longer to get over it

MadamDeathstare · 04/05/2010 14:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BaggyAgy · 04/05/2010 19:11

Hi Tame tiger. You are probably very lonely, otherwise why put up with his extreme selfishness. He clearly has no regard for others and is not at all empathetic. If you want devotion and faithfulness, stick with your dog. I am really upset that he has no empathy for you or you dog. You may be grieving for the relationship you should have had with him, but in reality it was never on offer. You, (and the dog) deserve much better. I hope the dog exacts revenge, if you cannot. Just avoid him, he is incapable of doing any better.
Move on, and good luck.

tametiger · 04/05/2010 21:19

Thank you to everyone who has posted here. I think you are right and that I have become isolated and rather lonely and far too dependent on him. There's something very healing and supportive about seeing what other people have written. I am new here but will keep you posted on my pregress. Thanks again for all your good wishes BaggyAgy, MadamDeathstare, peekabooyoufucksyou, AnyFucker (love the names), lilacclaire and Lovethesea. Hugs to you all.

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AnyFucker · 04/05/2010 21:39

aww, good luck

please get this toxic man out of your life

whereabouts (vaguely) are you...there might be some local MN meets for you to hook up with

tametiger · 06/05/2010 07:40

AnyFucker - I love the word 'toxic' - so appropriate. I live in rural Suffolk but there are things I could get involved in once I am able to get around again.
Feeling a bit better today but beginning to feel rather foolish that I have spent so much time idolising someone who is obviously unworthy. I humiliated myself by always being the one to go back after every incidence of him being a total hole.
Will stick with the dog in future. He is more handsome anyway and has a flatter stomach!

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NotQuiteCockney · 06/05/2010 07:43

This is a bit of a leap, but, tametiger - were either/both of your parents unempathetic like this? Please don't beat yourself up for your bad choice, but do consider seeking some help ...

tametiger · 06/05/2010 08:41

NQC - Over the years I have had quite a lot of therapy/counselling and am aware that for me my ex IS my dad. Dad was distant, cold and uninterested in me or my feelings and his bad moods dominated our home.
He always hinted that I wasn't pretty/feminine/good enough so I grew up looking for acceptance and admiration from anywhere I could. Usually rubbish relationships with unsuitable men.
The best thing I ever did, in my dad's eyes, was to marry my ex because they were so alike. I remember thinking that if my ex loved me then I had finally dome something my dad would approve of.
The trouble is, insight isn't the same as change and it's depressing that so many of us go on repeating the same old patterns despite knowing that we can't win.
My dad died five years ago aged 89 and I sat with him for the last few days of his life, holding his hand. Even when he was conscious he couldn't bring himself to say anything kind or conciliatory.
The feeling that you are not good enough, not pretty or feminine enough or in some other way unworthy is a horrible and toxic legacy. All we can do is try to ensure that we bring up our children differently.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 06/05/2010 09:15

tt, that is really sad and you deserve someone who makes you feel better about yourself, not worse

even if another "someone" doesn't come along, surely it is better to keep your self-esteem intact by not tolerating anyone (lover, relative or friend) who treats you badly ?

ps. I had a very poor (and remains so) r'ship with my father who I believe has an undiagnosed mental illness such as bipolar (will use the word toxic here again), so I have some insight into what you are saying

have you read the "Stately Homes" thread ?

look after yourself x

BaggyAgy · 06/05/2010 12:47

Hi Tametiger, You seem to have the situation perfectly in hand. Whenever I feel "not good enough" or in any way inferior to my H, I take out a candid photo of him which shows him warts and all, and I laugh out loud that I could so idolise this person. How could anyone that ridiculous put me down and make me feel inferior. It really does help me. Good Luck

Plumm · 06/05/2010 13:44

I haven't read all the repies, but have to question why you want to be with him?

tametiger · 06/05/2010 14:01

Good question. Perhaps I need to think long and hard about that one.

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tametiger · 11/05/2010 08:47

I have today hobbled across the room without crutches for the first time in ten weeks. Joy. Physically I can see things will improve although slowly. The trouble is, I think I am going mad with the misery of missing my ex. It is now 6 weeks and he hasn't phoned, e-mailed or written to see if I am OK.
Plumm - I suppose it's because he's the only person I have ever felt really close to. I could talk to him all day, was never bored, admired his intellect and creativity and just loved him, really.
Re-reading my posts I think I have painted him to be the villain of the piece but I have alienated him by being unable to have the full-on, sex-but-no-living-together relationship he wanted. I just couldn't forget the times he had raged at me and my son and the times he'd threatened to leave me when he couldn't get his own way.
Even so, I thought we were friends so wasn't prepared for this.
I can't help thinking that if I had handled things differently, thrown caution to the winds and committed myself again, things might not have come to this. I suppose I always believe that his anger is my fault (he says it is).
Sorry about this self-indulgent ramble but am worried that I will never get my peace of mind back and will miss him for the rest of my life. I am older than most MNers - I have a 23 year old son and a grandson - but am feeling like a stupid, besotted teenager. How sad is that? Thanks for listening.

OP posts:
BaggyAgy · 11/05/2010 09:08

Oh Tametiger I am so sorry for you. Big big hugs. Of course some days are bad, this is one but it will pass. He hasn't contacted you because he doesn't care how you are. He isn't interested in you when you need something. He sounds as if he is only using you to fulfill his needs. You need some friends. Once you are mobile again you can make friends. Of course you miss the relationship you wish you had had with him, but it was never on offer. He was too flawed, and did not care sufficiently for you or for his son. I hope you will not continue to be his willing victim. There are many good people, find them. I am probably older than you. I have recently had to rebuild my life. I have made a real effort to make friends, start new ventures/hobbies and concentrate on making myself happy. If I can do it, I am sure anyone can. He will make you miserable because he is selfish and doesn't care about you, only you can make you happy. Good Luck

Anniegetyourgun · 11/05/2010 09:14

tametiger, he's just a habit. You have a lot of love sloshing about inside you, which has for a long time been directed at him in default of a better target. There's no way the man you describe is worthy of that kind of devotion.

OK, he's not a villain, but he's nothing special really; you have a special place in your heart and somehow he got in there. He wants what he wants from you and you're hurting because you feel it's your fault for not giving exactly that, but you have needs too and more importantly, your children do. What did he give in exchange that you needed? He talked about your son as if he were an old coat - that's just awful, don't you see? He's dreadfully self-centred. You accept it because that's the horrible example your father gave you. Someone who gave a tuppenny damn about you would not have harrumphed off, leaving you helpless and housebound, even if it was justified. It wasn't, because as you said you had made other arrangements for the dog. You just didn't do exactly as he said, so he has ignored you for weeks. That is really dreadful behaviour, don't you think? Would you have done that even to someone you didn't like very much, let alone someone you cared about?

Throwing more love at him will never make him something he isn't, any more than it did for your father. That's not your failure, it's something missing inside them. You, as a mere human being, cannot fix it. It just isn't there, and you allow yourself to be disappointed time and time again by looking for it and beating yourself up for "failing" to find it.

It was never a partnership. He is not the sun, he is a cracked old planet who you are orbiting around as if he were the centre of the universe. Please wake up and realise you're not his satellite, you're a planet in your own right.

NotQuiteCockney · 11/05/2010 09:18

TT, therapy is an ongoing process, there's always still work to do.

I hope you understand, that with both your dad and your ex, there is no way you could have been 'good enough'. Nobody is perfect, there is always something to pick at, something to complain about. People as broken as those two men will always find a flaw, a loose thread to pull at.

Look around you, think of the most perfect woman you know (by your lights). Had she been born in your place, she would not have been good enough for your father.

I think there is a time and place for forgiveness, and maybe you will need to forgive your ex, but only in the sense of accepting that he did what he did because he is very very broken. Not in the sense of letting him back into your life - because he hasn't done anything to earn that.

tametiger · 11/05/2010 12:35

Baggy - I think he doesn't contact me because he is punishing and sadistic. I know him well enough to recognise that he is not indifferent to my misery but thinks I deserve it.
Annie - a 'cracked old planet' that's him. I know you are right, his behaviour is dreadful and I need to see him for what he really is.
NQC - Thanks for that. I like your description of 'very, very broken' - he is, damaged beyond repair. I have always known this but I suppose I thought I could mend him. Big mistake.
Thank you all for your words of support - it means a lot.

OP posts:
BaggyAgy · 11/05/2010 16:03

Tametiger, "not indifferent to my misery but thinks I deserve it" goodness that makes it worse. "he is punishing and sadistic" why do you want someone who is punishing and sadistic and thinks you deserve misery? Well probably ;because you have been conditioned to accept such appalling behaviour. You may be a bit addicted to his behaviour, nasty people may have become a habit. He chose you because you will tolerate the intolerable. You do NOT deserve misery Tametiger, and you do NOT deserve a man who is "punishing and sadistic". I am so angry for you I could do this man a mischief. However, I have been a victim myself too, so hope you see sense quicker than I did. You will not regret getting rid of him. Fill the void with NICE people, Nice experiences and FUN. Big Big hugs

tametiger · 17/05/2010 07:59

Despite all the good advice on here and against my own sense of self-preservation and after two glasses of wine, I phoned him. He sounded pleased to hear from me and asked me how I'd been getting on, did I still have my dog etc. I heard myself say that I had missed him and still loved him, no response from him. He said he's be in touch and we'd have a drink or a meal - almost as if nothing had happened. He obviously didn't feel he needed to apologise or explain his actions - as usual.
When I put down the phone I felt a sense of relief - perhaps we could mend this after all.
That evening he turned up unannounced with a bunch of flowers and a bottle of wine, just before my friend was due, so we only had 20 minutes to make small talk before he left with no definite plans of when to meet again.
That was last Wednesday. Now I don't know what to do. Seeing him again has plunged me into a state of agitation and misery. I have a feeling that he won't contact me again and even I can't humiliate myself further by contacting him. I feel pathetic and undignified and suspect that he feels contempt for my weakness.
When I first posted on here I was wondering whether there was any way back with him - hence the title. Now I am feeling that there is no way this can be mended. I feel that he abandoned me when I was desperate, after I begged him not to, and that he must be punishing me and dislike me very much to have done that then not even check to see if I was OK or even still alive.
Sorry, I seem to be getting very self-pitying here and I know most of you think I have been a fool yet again. But would you forgive and be able to move on? If so how?
Thanks for listening.

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 17/05/2010 08:44

Honey: never mind about the forgiving for now. You tried again to give him a way in but he ducked it yet again. Remember why he's ex in the first place? He let you and your son down very badly, and continues to let you down every time he has the chance. He cannot give you what you need and he never will. He will just continue to flit in and out of your life as it pleases him, giving a brief glimpse of what a nice relationship could be like, without it ever actually being one. It doesn't help that you are lonely and vulnerable at this time, so it's natural that you miss the person you're used to thinking will look after you (he doesn't though, much, does he? Only enough to keep you hanging on in hopes of more). My guess is that he turned up with flowers and wine hoping for a bit of action, but was smart enough not to let his disappointment show. You're paying for it now though.

Thank heavens you have enough self-esteem left to decide you can't crawl back after this, but I fear that in a couple of weeks your resolve will crumble. And yes, I'm sure he does despise your neediness, which is not at all a nice attitude. Get counselling, get out (when your ankle mends) and meet people, take up a hobby, make a fuss of the dog, like BaggyAggy says, nice experiences and FUN; anything to keep your mind from wandering to him and your hands from wandering to the phone. He is a useless object.

I hope your poor leg is feeling a lot better.

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