Think relationship is dead but he just will not talk about it!

[ALittleTime]

Hello.
I would appreciate other's advice and perspectives on my dilemma...

I will try to make it simple as possible but it is so complicated in my head.

Background Info-
Me 24, Him 33. Have a DC from my prev relationship and 1 DC together.
I work full- and pay all bills as I have good job and he does alot of childcare (we both decided this as best financially). Although he is training at the moment so will maybe change in the future.

The Good Aspects -

We do still seem to share some interests and views, and would probably still get on well if we were just friends.

We are still physically attracted to each other (although there is little sex because of the problems and detachment)

He is good with household chores and childcare (weill do without even being asked).

The Bad Aspects -

A couple of years ago, pre-DC2 just before we moved in together, I had an EA. Although no excuse, I felt unloved as he was drinking too much and generally being an arse towards me. He has since stopped drinking but the EA was never discussed much, just brushed under the carpet as we were just about to move in together to our house when I confessed about it.

He was very emotionally abusive to me in the past when he was drinking.All the stuff I've read about on here - gaslighting etc. This stopped when the drinking stopped but i'm still very wary he could hurt me like that again.I'm worried it's an inherent part of his personality although dormant now. I never got a real apology for the abuse, it's just 'not spoken about'. Although he's not technically abusive now, I still find myself constantly checking for signs of abuse and have taught myself all the signs. He is still pretty hard to live with.

We live pretty much separate lives - he just watches films by himself, me on the internet or reading. We don't talk much (in the old days we used to talk for England!) and if we do it's stifled. I'm more sociable than him and I go out etc but he refuses point blank to socialise with my friends or family so I have to go everywhere myself. If I suggest things for us to do together he usually rejects me saying "I don't like swimming, I don't fancy bowling, I don't go to cinemas etc" which annoys me. We go out together very rarely despite having willing babysitters - sometimes we get on ok sometimes things are stifled.

We seem to have huge resentment for each other and it's obvious we are both unhappy. I resent the fact that I have to be responsible for most things(money especcially) even though I actually enjoy being responsible. I think it's because I have to be, I have no choice - if I didn't do it, he wouldn't - he just buries his head in the sand. On the rare occasion he speaks he says he has a problem with me because he sees me as 'judgemental' or 'nagging' and he says he's scared of being henpecked like some of his friends.

My main problem with this though is - HE JUST WILL NOT COMMUNICATE WITH ME DESPITE IT BEING OBVIOUS THERE ARE HUGE FLAWS IN OUR RELATIONSHIP.No matter what I try - waiting until a good time, Approaching him gently, firmly, writing letters, asking questions, i have tried the lot to get him to open up but he refuses. Makes up excuses like a headache or needing to study or I'm interuppting his reading. he rolls his eyes and says "not again". The most I get out of him is "I do love you, what more do you want ffs?" "I can't deal with talking about this" .
I have suggested counselling and he point blank refuses.

When we argue we will both say things like "I'm sick of this/you" , "We just don't get on" "I don't care anymore" etc etc but later on he refuses to elaborate or explain. Just says theres no problem.

It drives me mad. There are obviously huge problems and this relationship is making us both unhappy yet he refuses to acknowledge them so IMO wrecks any chance of us moving on to being happier separately or fixing the problems.

I always think maybe he is just here for our DC as his dad left when he was young and he vowed not to do the same, or because his finances wouldn't enable him to rent somewhere else to live and he doesn't want to go back to his mums.

He has completely shut down from me yet won't leave. Treats me like an inconvenience if I phone him from work.

There are just too many issues, and I feel so alone. Even more alone with him than I would be if I really was single.

Sorry about the length of this post, it has been theraputic getting out all the frustration, but is this what my life is going to be like at just 24? surely i deserve a relationship with someone willing to speak to me and resolve things?

I have tried to tell him if he keeps refusing to speak to me he will have to move out, but he just says "Ok if that's what you want" but keeps coming back.

If anyone gets to the bottom of reading this, I would appreciate your advice.

xx

Tell him if he won't go to counselling with you then you have to move on. You're young and you've got a job, you'll meet someone else.

What Shitemum said

Maybe he's just sticking it out until he finishes his training and get a job and can afford to support himself. Why didn't you leave him back when he was being an arse? Why did you just have an Emotional Affair? Why did you even tell him about it?

Thanks for replies.

Beautiful, that is what I thought. I didn't leave him then because I hoped he would change, and he has in some ways - stopped drinking, not abusive anymore, just shut down - like Iam 'making' him suppress his true (not so nice) personality and he doesn't like it,maybe.
I know the EA wasn't a good way of dealing with it, to this day I don't know why I did it. I told him because I felt guilty.

I have the same problem ALittleTime and I know how frustrating it is - the refusing to communicate.

Often if I bring things up he will simply leave the room!
I have come to the conclusion that it is immaturity, an inability to deal with things like an adult...

I will watch this thread with interest to see how what advice you are given.

I think he's sticking it out as well. He's got his feet under the table, nice home, DC, dinner cooked, and a 'wife' who might whine occasionally but that can be tuned out. He won't exert himself to move on unless and until another woman appears who will take over the job of servicing and supporting him. For whatever reason, he thinks that you want This Relationship and will therefore put up with his faults as long as he occasionally reboots your programming by promising to improve now and again.

It is a tough one. Most men aren't much for talking at this level. They have no example of it from their childhood. They don't have the skills and they think that it is not very extraordinary.

You have said that he loves you, but not if you love him.

I agree that without another woman to move on with a lot of men wouldn't leave.

Is there someone else that he does properly open up to and talk with? Perhaps you can enlist them to help.

He might be feeling emasculated by not being the main bread winner - which is the stereotype most men are brought up with for themselves which ties into you being resentful for being the main bread winner. Things are just out of kilter.

Men don't talk often because they can't see how it will change things. It is rational and logical that you can earn more at the moment and so he stays home, but as many mums will tell you it can really mess up your self esteem and we aren't even swimming against the tide of normal family stereotpyes.

I think that it is admirable that he doesn't want a broken family for his son. Studies show that people from broken families, or who have divorced etc are quicker to give up on relationships usually, which is not good news for the future of families.

I don't think that it would hurt if you put yourself in his shoes a bit more. My background is in HR so I have used some models for feedback/performance management/counselling situations in the past . These models make sense, but they are difficult to turn into a 'habit'. It is much more 'natural' to say:

"We need to talk" which scares the pants off men or
"You always ..." or "You never ..." or "You need to ..." etc etc - which just makes people feel defensive and clam up or go on the attack themselves.

Turn off the TV. Sit down at the table to eat. Have a glass of wine with the meal. Talk about great times you shared before. Perhaps open with " I can understand that the way things are at the moment is not ideal and might make you feel dissatisfied." Listen Listen Listen Stay Calm and Positive and ask him what he needs. Once you have demonstrated a willingness to listen empathetically to him and commit to some actions to improve his perception of things then he will be much more willing to listen to you and what you need.

Or maybe that sounds like a bridge too far and you have already given up on this relationship and want to move on. For the sake of both of your children I hope not. Good Luck, Sim

Hello again and thanks for the replies. I'm up late working ): boo

To answer questions:

The sticking it out thing would make sense to me - he's not horrible as such, but really does not seems to care in the slightest for my feelings , sort of like a stranger.

I do love him I think, somewhere underneath all the shit, but I know it's pointless if he cannot speak to me about simple things. He is so closed off about his life too. i know what we have is not how it's supposed to be and know i can't live with that.

I agree most men stick around in a bad relationship until they find a 'catalyst' ie-OW. Maybe because men comparmentalise better - a bad relationship colours my whole life , i couldn't eat or sleep or work when things got really bad, but life for OH (and it seems most men) goes on otherwise as normal.

I don't think there's anyone he opens up to - in fact I speak to his mum more than he does! His 'strategy' is avoiding issues.

I thought it could be the role-reversal thing too but then he has always been like this, even before when he worked and I didn't so I don't think it's that. He seems to enjoy spending time with kids when I'm at work (treats my DC1 same as 'his' biological DC1 so can't fault him there - we both know he loves DC2 more but he NEVER shows it) and he seems to enjoy his own hobbies - going to his friends once a week or so, mountain climbing the odd time, football, films, gardening. He cooks alot and actually does keep basic stuff in house done (washing, dishes, DC baths, hoovers etc). Sometimes members of my family ask me if I mind paying for everything and I say no because he does a good job of looking after DCs and saves us the equivalent of £40 per day in childcare fees. I do mind the fact that he just buries his head in the sand with regards to planning for future etc.

The thing is, I would love to listen to him - it may make us closer - but HE DOESN'T TALK. AT ALL. EVER. Just avoids things.

argh.

Maybe he is depressed or has been traumatised and it is not about you as such. Does he have a best mate that he talks to? My DH doesn't talk to his mum either

Have you tried - in the right circumstances: When you don't talk to me I feel like you don't care for me and that we are strangers - or maybe it is not about me at all - but without talking to me I don't have much to go on. Then Listen Listen etc.

They say men don't talk - they act! So by being so great with the kids, and the housework/cooking etc, what he is indeed saying is that he loves and appreciates you and your relationship - and maybe you just need to acknowlege that to him - then he will know that you are paying attention and then he might open up to you (when the planets finally align). Men are cripples All we can do is do a better job with our sons.

It is perhaps worth considering that the type of 'talking' you seem to mean, the endless analysing of feelings, is not necessarly 'right' or 'good' or 'better' than being someone who doesn't like deep level discussions, nor is it a Man Thing. (I don't care for it, for instance, and I have a fully functioning uterus). By the sound of it, as AussieSim says, he does care about you and the DC and is doing more than his fair share, he just doesn't want to discuss it over and over again.
COuld you think about it more in terms of compromise than 'making' him talk? Ie could you find your emotional discussion needs met by a friend instead?

Is it a lack of emotional discussions the OP is missing though, or a lack of empathy?

Hello again and thanks for your input .
I see what you mean about not everyone is into talking about emotions - i would be ok if it was just that. I think it IS the lack of empathy i hate-

His life is all he thinks about - I have to support him with his worries/problems for years but I do not get the same concern in return.

He is snappy and moody at times because he is depressed his career hasn't gone well and he has no motivation (he said this once) - silly things will set him off , like the neighbours slamming a door etc, and he will take it out on me, and generally makes an unpleasant atmosphere.

Any needs I have (to share with him about my life good and bad, social life, discussion etc) are 'pressurising' to him and he will say "leave me alone" "stop pressurising me" "stop going on" It hurts.

I can sincerely identify with the OP, it seems as if I wrote it myself bar a few things. OP, are you me or are we dating the same person...... My OH severely lacks empathy, everything is about him him and more him. If I am frustrated about something he doesnt really care, all he always wants to do is watch tv. He spends ALL his free time watching TV and just now our DS wa asking him to play ball with him and .....you guessed it he said he was too busy.

My OH does NOT DO ANYTHING with the kids, football practise, I take them. In fact I have been so angry this whole weekend because I keep on brushing things under the carpet hoping he will change but he clearly doesnt want to change. I am so lonely in this relationship and that hurts me a lot. I have explained all of this to him and its either all his attention is directed at the tv or I am accused of being a nag. I am all for being in relationship but I am also so resentful to him and this weekend - even now I am just thinking that god I hate you, you think I am an idiot and you know what I guess I am for putting up with his shite all the time. Its time to make a change

I wish I could suggest something constructivfe for you but unfortunately I am in the same crazy boat as you.... Wish you all the best

Thanks Mimiso. xxx

I had a talk with him tonight. Basically just waited until kids were at his mum's and then suggested we went to do food shopping (knew he would as we both like to do it but usually it's me who does it) - on the way there - walking so he couldn't 'get away' - i told him how serious iam about leaving him if things don't change. How I'm sick to death of being snapped at, pushed away and my feelings ignored and I will definately split up with him if things don't change. I don't expect roses and in-depth talks but I do expect consideration and respect for my feelings at the very least.
This is what I said to him, almost verbatim. He looked really sad and upset and mumbled something about him being depressed and fucking his life up, said sorry about a million times, declarations of love etc etc and I could feel myself melting but I stayed firm. I realise I may sound like a hard bitch right now, but I have felt so alone for so long and he has made promises to change before but never has, so I'm not getting my hopes up. Maybe we are just incompatible.
I'm sad now because now I have given him that ultimatum, I know I may have to follow it through and leave him ): Feels better that he finally listened though...

Glad you managed to have a chat with him; at least he listened. With my OH the mumbling really grates me. He has seen that I am upset and he is suddenly transforming into a knight in shining armour.........well you are too late. Been there done that....so many times he has promised to change but he never sees it through so like you I just dont get my hopes up and I have really gone past caring whether he changes or not. I know that I do not love him and like you sex is about once a month purely because I cannot be bothered. He seems to like to be nice when he wants some but I cordoned on to that.

With us there is a huge financial link and we need to get around that and finalise a split. Twice now I have issued him with ultimatums and packed his bags and he has promised to change yada yada yada you know the rest and he does change for a few months and then in fact it worsens as I will have been under the false impression that he meant it. He is so effing lazy its amazing. aaaarrrggghhhh

Well I hope for your sake that he means it as it is not your responsibility to lift his spirits up, he has to do that himself and its too much a burden on you. I know my OH is probably depressed too as I am the main breadwinner but hey,that is not my fault. I have tried to be supportive of him and when I have been sick, depressed etc where the eff was he...watching telly. I actually cant afford to be sick or depressed because I have to look after and entertain the kids all by myself. Selfish does not even begin to describe this man. He is probably loving me the best way he can but unfortunately its not what I want, I deserve more. Phew rant over

Take care and hope he does mean it xxx

Hello again (: So much of what you said rings true for me too. Think my OH honestly thinks he is doing the best he can too. Have said to him before "I think you just want a mother, not a girlfriend" ie-me to support him without expectations in return.

My OH does start to be nice and make an effort when he wants to have sex and I used to love sex but now I just feel too hurt - I'm just waiting for the next time he is selfish/unsupportive. I have tried to look at it from his side too and be supportive and 'act how i want to be treated' but he just doesn't get it. So maybe twice a month now, which neither of us are happy with but until I can trust him, I can't let go and enjoy it - he thinks he's rubbish in that dept (which makes him even more down) although I've tried to explain it's things outside the bedrooom which are causing my lack of desire, he doesn't listen.
I do still love him, but only just (don't know if that makes sense)
fingers crossed, but i really mean it this time - i want a partner, not a boy.

Be a team. What does he need and what do you need? What are three things each of you could do to make each other feel better every day?

As a practical example: I saw a speaker once who recommended the 7 second hug. That is walk in the door from work and before you greet your pets or even your children - greet your partner with a 7 second hug and ask them how their day was. Smile at him. Thank him for the things he did for you and the kids during the day.

I think it sounds like he needs some help for his depression. Some counselling, changes to his diet/supplements, more physical activity. Something. I think that he is not getting a lot of empathy, and that if he were a woman on here posting about his situation then he would be getting heaps of support.

You obviously have your needs to and your feelings are completely valid, but I think it sounds like the relationship is worth working on. Two kids involved and he is not being unfaithful or beating you - he is just feeling so crap about himself that he can't be there for you when you need him. Most relationships will go through a phase like this at some point. I just think you could find a way together to get through this without putting 100% of the onus on him, which probably will make him feel more stressed and hopeless. I still think that a man gets most of his feelings of self-worth from his work and that is missing for your man.

You are still very young and you don't want to get on this merry-go-round where no partner is quite good enough for enough of the time or you could find yourself at 30 single with 3 kids with 3 different fathers wondering where it all went wrong. Try to remember when you first fell in love with him and what it was that you found so special about him. Good Luck, sim

And if he still doesn't talk after all that, kick the bugger out.

I am not going to take issue with everything AussieSim says, but some of it worries me. For example, "he is not being unfaithful or beating you" is not in itself a reason for staying in a relationship that does not work for you. The 1950s are long gone, for a mercy. And putting the children first (as one must) does not necessarily mean having to live under the same roof as their other parent. The fact that children of separated parents may go on to give up on relationships more easily in the future is not always a bad thing, either; some relationships need giving up on. The question is what each of us would define as "too easily". If I'd waited for XH, the father of our 4 DCs, to hit me or sleep around so I could "justify" leaving him, I'd still be waiting, but I wouldn't be in a functional marriage, I'd be in a mental institution, rocking gently in the corner.

Fair enough said Annie. I don't know why I am feeling so ... 1950's about this situation. I may be totally out of line .

I totally understand, in the same position myself but it s me that struggles to do the talking, I'm afraid if I start talking what will come out, maybe that scares your dh too!!

Well, quite likely it is one of those situations where your advice is a perfectly sensible way to proceed - two people who have stopped communicating, but who could get started again with enough will on both sides. It's just that in the context of this forum, where so many women post for help "mending our relationship", "getting him to understand" etc, only for a little enquiry to find out that she is living with an abusive lunatic, I get edgy. Dammit, I was one of those "how can I get him to understand" and "I can't leave the father of my children" people for 23 years. I believe in staying married and working things out between you wherever possible. If I hadn't believed in it so strongly I wouldn't have wasted 23 years trying all those good techniques to keep a relationship going between two rational human beings, only to have them used to emotionally beat me with. So excuse my baggage making me a little prickly concerning anything that looks in the least, er... let's stick with "1950s" as we both know what we mean!

Hello and thanks, your suggestions/advice/insight is wonderful (: thank you.

I too am torn between thinking that it's all a blip, that he wasn't always like this. He is obviously depressed, saying things like he's worthless because he doesn't have anything to give his DC - I tell him of course he isn't worthless, he gives them plenty of interaction and love and looking after, it's not all about money. I have suggested he gives up his current training (which he seems to hate and finds hard and frustrated he is failing), and traions in something else or gets a part-time job even. As long as contributes in either a financial way or a childcare way to the household then I don't mind (I would mind very much if he didn't do either). He is not motivated at all though and will idolise something then go off it and choose something else - he has always been like this - i find it frustrating that if it wasn't for me having a good job then we would probably have split because his changing jobs like the wind and crazy ideas would leave us broke! But I suppose I can't judge on what I think might happen if i were to lose my job, until it happens (hopefully not!). He may be perfectly capable for all I know.
The 7 -second - hug idea is a great idea - i will try.
I'm a bit worried though because I have heard both parties need to be completely committed to saving a relationship and I honestly don't know if Iam - I'm disheartened now cause everytime in the past I have tried with him since we started having problems, never has he managed to not push me away or snap at me for more than a few weeks.

On the other side of things, He was a verbal abuser once, he obviously still has the capacity to do so again, which unsettles me and puts me off sexually. He says it was the drink that made him like that and he hasn't been since he stopped drinking. A condition of me taking him back after the verbal abuse was that he didn't drink again - and so far he has kept to this (i would smell it if he did). I'm hyper-alert for signs of verbal abuse though, maybe that's causing things to be worse, but I feel I need to do this, and will for a long time yet if Iam ever to get over it.

Hopefully it goes ok. xxx

ALittletime - I can sincerely identify with everything you say. I have supported OH through a lot, settling here, getting a job etc. We have three lovely children but more and more I have felt as if he takes advantage of my kindness and love. My sister had a word with him today and he said he knows I am upset because he didnt do the dishes..............I told my sister to tell him to grow up, yes his lack of contribution to ANYTHING is more appropriate. For example our DD is ill so today I have had to call in at work so I called him asking him if he could stay with her tomorrow and he said its short notice....wtf..its not as if our DD is going to give us notice of illness is she. Furthermore he cannot identify with the fact that I have taken time off work.

You are right in that both parties in a relationship must be committed to it working but I feel that I actually no longer care. The kids do not want to spend time with him because he is always abrupt and impatient because he is so concerned with watching tv or surfing the net. The time I cared for him to change he chose not to. So I said to my lil sis that I am not initiating any talks with him, I have been doing it for the past 10 years and I am not going to do that anymore. If he wants to talk then he can start it, I am all tired out now.

My OH is also pretty unmotivated and for a long time he has been complaining that he doesnt earn enough and I advised him to go to uni but he keeps on procrastinating. PUt it this way if I dont apply for that course for him its not going to happen. The job he works in now I actually did his personal statement etc for him to be called to an interview. Well I refuse to continue doing that, he is not a baby and I am not his mum. The reason for helping before was because I thought that if he has a good job it will surely benefit us, but it works out that I am motivated for him. I am really career minded and all that but he is not. All he can do is moan about how people at his work treat him like shite because of his position, well if you dont like it do something about it or shut up tbh.

The 7 second hug is a fab idea but for me it would actually feel strange. We have separated so much that I guess even he would think that I was on crack.....

On the positive, whatever little he has he makes sure that I have it - but I am still not happy with that because I am not materialistic, what I wanted from him was a loving, understanding partner who did not take me for granted. Sadly that is what he does. His brother even advised me to leave him - that says a lot. Now why am I still with him I always ask my self. Because I am a coward - amongst other things

oh yes, the verbal abuse can really put you on edge so that could also be affecting your not giving him a chance or being truly open to your feelings because you will be worried it will kick off

Have a good long think about it. Maybe he means it but I surely regret the times I have given it another go as the longer you leave it the next time it happens the harder it will be for you to actually get him to leave. PUt it this way, in my situation he probably goes 'oh here we go again,she doesnt mean it' because each time when I have been on the verge of kicking him out I give in and give him another chance. Try and be stronger than I am so that you can get the result you want and stick to it

Hi Mimiso -
Are we with the same guy? lol

He is just so hard to get along with - at times I just don't really understand him at all. Think it might be something to do with him having lived with his mum until he was 30 and even then he only moved out when i was pregnant with DC2 because of the baby. His mum still buys all his clothes, whilst he was there she never asked him to pay a penny or buy any food although he had a job, and he still has a room there untouched.

I'm not at all materialistic either - I'm lucky enough to have a job I like which pays well and is flexible hours, but like you it's the loving and not taking me for granted (I'm not a high-maintenence diva but I'd like some acknowledgement I exist please!).

I do mean it this time. Somewhere inside of me knows that. No-one's perfect, least of all me, but one more episode of verbal abuse/disrespect and I'm off. I just can't take anymore.
I hope he knows this as I have made ultimatums in the past to try and move him into action - but took him back then so I've made a rod for my own back now.

Good luck to you too. btw, that was a very rude thing he said to your sister.

xxx