Our relationship needs some serious work. I don't know how to start.

[flippedfrog]

Old timer, namechanged (not that it should matter) (iCod, homemade penis ornament, umbilical cord set in fiberglass, Moldies, penguins).

So, we are stuck in a rut so deep I can't see out.

Our children are young, and the youngest is still not really a reliable enough sleeper to get a sitter, so dh and I have not been out together for years.

We haven't had sex for nearly 3 years.

Everything is perfectly friendly, and I like DH very much. We chat about boring things and interesting stories we read in the paper. We sometimes watch a film together, but more often than not he watches crap telly and I surf the net - either end of the same sofa but we may as well be in different countries.

We are tired. We get snippy with each other. We sleep in separate beds because of our children's rubbish sleeping habits (which, believe me, we are trying to sort out. We really are).

I don't fancy him, but I think I could again.

He doesn't fancy me and I don't think he wants to. He's a bit grossed out by sex I think. I'm not sure. We don't talk about embarrassing things. (By the way, I think it is grossly unfair that he doesn't fancy me - I might not be Angelina Jolie but I'm alright, I'm 5'4, size 10, dress nicely, don't have halitosis, 2 eyes, 1 nose, 1 mouth and all in roughly the right place. I think I'm quite pretty I suppose. I work out and go running. Not a bulldog chewing a wasp anyway).

We are thinking about having baby #3. I had vaguely thought that when we wanted another child we'd have to start having sex and things would sort of mend themselves, but (a) we only had sex once to concieve dc2, and (b) we're not sure if we even want another.

I have absolutely NO IDEA how to start mending our relationship. I think it's up to me to get the ball rolling - I could grow old waiting for him to take the initiative.

I don't know how to do it.

Sorry if this is ridiculously obvious, but have you told him all this? If so, how did he respond?

What would I say? How would I say it?

"Would you like to have sex with me?"
???

How about just saying 'DH, we need to talk about things. How do you feel things are between us?' and taking it from there? Sometimes all it takes is for someone to break the ice and get the ball rolling. Prepare yourself to hear things that might be upsetting (just in case), but on the whole clearing the air has got to be a good thing.

hmm. well, you know it needs work, and that's a damn good start. and I echo the talking thing!!!

FWIW, judging from your OP you definitely shouldn't have another baby yet. it'll just make everything worse surely?

You don't think he fancies you, doesn't seem interested in sex, yet you would like another baby with him?

FWIW, I think that sleeping apart / having children in bed with you (long term) is poison for a marriage - it wrecks intimacy.

If the pair of you only had sex in order to conceive, I'd say the marriage is pretty much unfixable tbh.

If you can't talk about "embarrassing things" as a husband and wife, it doesn't bode well, does it?

flippedfrog...
A lot of that could have been me a few years ago, - we went six years without sex - and I didn't know how to kick start it. First my confidence was low and I thought I would be turned down by DH. It sort of put me off trying. We went away for the week end, and guess what, still no sex and I was deeply upset about it, and so much so, that I said to him when I got back that I just wanted my DH to make love to me. I think you have to get to the point that you say something outright and direct. I didn't mince words, I didn't blame anyone or anything, but I made it clear where I stood. Things improved that way for a few weeks and then my confidence further improved and I went to talk to someone at Relate and then told him. It seemed to me that he was looking for an opening to improve the relationship too and he has really tried and I have too, and it has got so much better.
So, what I think is that you have to take a deep breath and know what you want to say, and be direct.

How do you know he doesn't fancy you? and more to the point how do you know he doesn't want to?

your youngest must be at least 2 - surely you could get a babysitter? a good babysitter could deal with a waking child anyway. It will be worth it if it keeps mummy and daddy together in a loving relationship!

sounds like there is zero intimacy - due the the babies, the sleeping arrangements, no time for you both as a couple, and, to be honest, complacency on both your parts.

It is easy to let things slide like this and so long as no-one is desperately unhappy there isn't a huge impetus to change things. But the longer it goes on the harder it gets to get the old you back.

You need to talk to him, obviously. Get a babysitter (just bloody do it!) and go out and talk - no accusations, no crying if you can help it, no trying to get him to read your mind. Just ask him if he is happy the way things are, tell him that you are not and see how he wants to deal with it. You really have no idea what is going on in his head do you?

Then maybe you need to find ways of making time for yourselves, even Relate, maybe, if things have slipped that far.

I read on here more than once that the first child of a marriage should be the marriage itself (or something along those lines) and it makes a huge amount of sense.

oh and for God's sake - no baby number 3!! Baby no 3 should be a long way off...

"the first child of a marriage should be the marriage itself" - what does that mean? [clueless emoticon]

FWIW I don't think it's unfixable. You do need to be really direct about your feelings though. The only thing that ever causes an argument between me and DH is me faffing around and not telling him how I feel... and somehow expecting him to work it out on his own! I've realised recently how silly that is.

MMM - That you should nurture your relationship like you nurture a baby (not have the baby instead.)

It's nice

Thank you for replies so far.

ItsGraceAgain - I am scared to ask that question because I don't think the answer will be "my darling, I thought you'd never ask!"

Malificence - thank you for your post, but I disagree very strongly. We have been married for 10 years, we love and like each other, we have two beautiful children whom we dote on, we are kind to each other, we enjoy each other's company, we make a great team in so many ways. I think we have got bogged down and, as Mrs Boogie says, complacent.

It's really just the sex and the intimacy that needs fixing. I don't know how to start with that. After all this time I suppose I almost feel a bit silly.

People who said we need to talk, yes, we do.

We have made massive strides with ds's sleeping over the past 2 months, and I think we actually could get a baby sitter and go out for a meal. Is a restaurant a good place to discuss all this?

And why is another baby such a terrible idea? I can't get pregnant just yet anyway, but even if I did the baby wouldn't be born for 9 months. A 3 year age gap is quite normal isn't it?

MMM - thank you for asking that question. I meant to in my last post.

It is a nice saying. But our 1st baby wasn't to 'fix' our marriage.

I think you can make it work - and yes i think a resturant is a good place to start.

Has he always had a low sex drive? Maybe there is something medical with him.

I toatally understand the rut too - we have been there. it is hard with a young family and all the stuff that brings.

Try finding some things you can do together - if you like running how about a day at a spa - you can do a workout and then have a pamper together.

Sheer bliss.

Hope it all works out.

if your children's sleeping habits are the root of it - iw ould strongly recommend a re-think over having another child.

i think you need to get to relate - they do a sex counselling one too i think

ohhhh I see. that makes sense. I like it!

Please, don't have another baby until your relationship is back on an even keel.

You need to talk, but you know that. You could possibly go to Relate separately or jointly.

If you Dcs are crap sleepers how about going out for lunch with your DH? Dates don't have to be just for the evening.

Are you all saying not to have another baby because you are worried we will have another child and then split up?

I think another baby is a bad idea because

a) If you're not naturally shagging anyway, forced shagging to conceive wouldn't improve your (lack of) sex life

b) If you do conceive, the extra stress could be enough to fracture what sounds like a pretty fragile marriage

I think you both need to put the marriage before everything else for a while, and the main thing to address is the lack of sex & intimacy

no, no - the saying about the marriage means, I think, that you should think of the relationship almost like it is a "child" - it needs to be nurtured, and kept healthy and not neglected - and that you should continue to do this when you have children. Like you wouldn't forget about your first child when you had a second?

the reasoning is that while this may seem selfish and that you should put everything into your children -it is actually in the childrens' best interests also for you to nurture your relationship and keep each other happy.

Am I making sense?

it doesn't sound unfixable at all OP. There's just one thing that needs to be fixed.

but until you and your DH find a way back to each other I think that baby no 3 will only increase the gap between you. Another couple of years with another baby not sleeping or sleeping in your bed, being breastfed, making you tired and grumpy, demanding all your energy - you need to sort the marriage first or there may be no marriage to rescue.

I can't speak for anyone else, but IMO because babies exacerbate any stresses in the relationship. You've posted "Our relationship needds some serious work." On that basis alone, most sensible people would advise you not to have another one yet!

I'm surprised you would want another baby at this time OP, once you get your youngest sorted sleepwise etc don't you want a break? and I don't mean a "knackered 9 months of pregnancy" break -I mean a proper "get back to normal" break.

I would stop thinking about age gaps and start thinking about what is best for you!

Good post MrsBoogie. Thank you. I suppose I have bveen thinking of it in terms of getting the baby stage all done and out of the way, and then fix our relationship when the dust clears.

I never think of our marriage as fragile. As long as we both shall live, and all that.

So.

Remove hypothetical baby #3 from the situation.

Get a baby sitter. Go out for a meal.

And say... "hmm... so, have you noticed that we haven't had sex for 3 years, how do you feel about that?"

That would be a good start.