Is it always better to stay together for the sake of the kids?

[chrissiejames]

I feel that dh and I don't love each other any more. We have never been great about talking about stuff anyway, but we are becoming more and more nasty to each other, to the extent that my 6 and 7 year olds tell us to stop squabbling. He certainly talks to me as if he can't stand the sight of me "please stop biting your nails it is really very unattractive", "are you actually trying to be thick" when I don't immediately follow what he is talking about, etc etc. I don't enjoy sex with him, it's down to once a month and I never initiate it. I find it harder still to have sex when he is so awful, so for once, I tried to be communicative and explain this evening when he suggested an "early night" that I find it hard to disassociate him being so horrid with then being affectionate physically. His reaction? Walks off, slams the door without a word and goes to the spare bedroom to sleep.
When a friend told me recently that she is separating from her dh, I felt so envious. Surely this isn't normal? There is no one else in my life (unlike my friend who has met someone else), but when I spend time with dh and the kids, I always think we are all happier when dh isn't around - he gets very angry when the kids squabble and tells me off for not teaching them better manners. Argh im really just letting off steam cos I don't want to tell my friends - I know that compared to many people on this thread, my problems are insignificant - he isn't cheating on me, he doesn't hit me, etc etc. I just know Im not happy, but I remember reading somewhere that it is almost always better for families to stay together if they can, so I am probably just being incredibly selfish by even thinking of life without him. Has anyone here left and been happier without dh? Or is it a case of the grass is always greener??

What are the reasons for OPs husband's behaviour though? It doesn't sound from her post that he's always been this way. She says for instance that it's bickering rather than arguing and that it 'seems' they don't love each other. Everyone is entitled to go through a bad patch I think and this is where the 'for better or worse' kicks in. I'd never say that you should stay together if the relationship is indeed toxic and one half is seriously turning on the other, but it's easy to rewrite history and overplay the negative behaviour because things are going through a bad patch (by 'patch', I mean anything up to about eighteen months). Are there good things in this marriage? There must be as OP is only contemplating leaving. We don't know about those things and so someone needs to point out that if there is hope - then yes, it is best to stay together for the DCs.

When my dad came crawling back 'for the sake of the kids' (ie DB and I) after he ran off with his secretary, we told my mum to make him fuck the fuck off.

Rather separate happy parents than miserable togther parents. Especially when the DCs will a) not be learning what a happy, healthy relationship is like and b) may even start to feel guilt for 'making' you stay together.

If you really don't want to be with your DH any more, I'd vote to split from him. For the sake of the kids.

Popzie - if there is anything to be salvaged, then they need to stay together and try to work it out for the sake of the relationship, not for the sake of the kids.

Just wanted to put a slightly different view in here - in the genuine desire to be helpful, not cause guilt trips.

My parents divorced when I was very young and it has affected me badly over the years, in ways which are too complicated to explain. I don't regret their divorce at all - it would have been disastrous for my mum if she'd stayed, and I'd have grown up believing that an abusive, manipulative relationship was normal.

But the mistake everyone made was to overestimate my resilience - that's the popular wisdom now isn't it, "oh they'll be fine, kids are tougher than we think, if you're happy they'll be happy", etc. My parents cared the world about me, but they made bad, uninformed decisions about access which meant I was separated from one or the other parent for too long, at too young an age. I had big issues with my stepdad (very common I understand) which were ignored. I lived a divided life for many years, with my parents seeing completely different sides of me. This all comes back to haunt you at some point.

And I was lucky in that they were reasonably amicable! - other couples split up with such rancour that they find it effectively impossible to co-parent.

No-one has the right to tell someone else they shouldn't get divorced if they are unhappy. But on the other hand, please don't take this lightly in terms of its impact on the kids. It has a huge impact, in many practical ways which are not always obvious beforehand. For their sake I would urge you to read and research as much as you can before taking this step, so you can continue to be good parents for them afterwards.

And of course I wish you the very best of luck in getting through this tough time.

theboob, that is interesting - I don't want to push you to give away too much, but could you say some more about the "bad, uninformed decisions about access which meant I was separated from one or the other parent for too long, at too young an age"? I'm asking because I really want to make the right decisions in relation to access for my 2-year old DD. In some ways that ship has sailed, as the access agreement already exists, but it would be good to know about any obvious pitfalls to avoid.

And did you have an okay relationship with your father despite him having an "abusive, manipulative" relationship with your mother? My ex was horrible to me, and it is a huge question for me whether he will be good to our DD. Their relationship seems good so far, and I want to believe that she's better off with him in her life.

Sure, gladly! -

I was 2.5 when it happened. The standard then (I think it's the same now) was residence with mum, spend every other weekend and half the holidays with dad.

So basically every other weekend, I was shipped off to stay with my dad who lived about an hour's drive away. Huge, horrible, anxious scenes on parting. My dad's house didn't feel like home because it wasn't home for most of the time - little kids' memories are so short, a day feels like a year. And then there were a few holidays when I stayed 4 weeks with my dad, away from my mum!! Awful - over my dead body would I do that to my DD.

But I had a good relationship with my dad - he has problems with women for sure, but he's always been kind and loving to me. His biggest mistake was to keep moving further away (when I was 11 he went abroad) - but perhaps he thought I was fine without him. He was so wrong, I really needed him, especially as a young teenager.

So I'm aware that I'm talking ideals here - which are often impossible - but there are a few things I really wished they'd done differently. Firstly, he should have stayed close enough for me to see him at least every few days. The big separations were just too damaging. Let's say, half a day away from my mum every other day would have been fine. Maybe an overnight stay when I was older, say 4 or 5, but only if I wanted to. And I wish my mum had been more thoughtful when introducing new partners into the mix - not just assuming it'll all be fine, and closing her eyes to the obvious signs that it wasn't.

Really really hope this helps, NT - it's such a tough issue, good for you for taking it seriously.

I could have written this OP...DH told mne to Fuck off in front of our 3 year old and repeatedly called me a fat slag(I am a 10, used to be a 6...with ribs sticking out, yuk).

I am watching and 'listening' with great interest.

Hmm. Very interesting. I've to run and get DD from nursery but that's given me some food for thought. Thanks for sharing your experience.

It sounds similar to our arrangement, except that my ex lives in our old house, so at least it's familiar. He does see her more often. And he's not getting her for 4 weeks! And it's fascinating that your dad was good to you.

Will bear in mind the need for sensitivity about new partners - if there ever is one. Can't say I'm that pushed...

Really have to go, but thanks again!

TheBoobMeister - wise words indeed.

Am a child of divorced parents myself. I know every situation is different but I and my 5 siblings all suffered enormously throughout the separation and for years after. Self esteem and confidence shot to hell, which leaves its mark for sure.

As you said, I would never say to anyone stay in a bad relationship just for the kids, but if there is any good in your relationship and any chance at all to make it better, then you owe it to your kids to try, becuase just because kids survive divorce, doesnt mean they are as resilient as we think they are, they survive it 'cos they have to.

Another child of divorced parents here. They split when I was 4 and although there must have been much resentment (Dad had an affair and later remarried Mums 'best' friend) they did a great job of keeping it to themselves and did a pretty good job of co-parenting.

Yes I coped with it but it did make me very sad, I missed each parent when with the other one, and hated handovers.

My happiest memories are of the three of us together post-divorce: birthdays etc. I even loved parents evenings because the two of them went together and oddly that felt really really special.

I would never suggest staying together for the sake of the kids is the best option where a relationship is beyond salvation- obviously the effect of a destructive or unhealthy relationship on DCs can be huge.

However, my experiences have given me the feeling that its often really hard for DCs to deal with seperating parents, and the impact can be life-long. Though who's to say things wouldn't have been worse if they stayed together.

My relationship with DP is far from perfect at the moment but I have to admit that every time I see the joy that DS experiences when we are all together I feel more like trying to make things work. TBH I'm not sure 100% its the right thing to do- there's no simple answer to this one I guess.

For once, I'm not writing an essay. My parents stayed together. They fucked us all up. We are all intelligent & went to good schools, but I'm the only one who actually took any A-levels (and didn't do any revision). Our overriding priority was to get away from home. We all have enormous self-worth issues, relationship problems, and the next generation has psychological/emotional issues as well.

Popzie, you astound me. In what ways is it better for children to live with unhappy, bickering parents?

Chrissie, constant personal criticism is abusive. Would you accept those remarks from a shop assistant, a colleague or somebody at a dinner party? What's this teaching your kids??

Thanks, mjinhiding.

I left my ex when DD was 18 months. That's nearly a year ago, and she still asks for "MummyDaddy" - the two of us together. I feel sad for her. But the upside of seperated parents is that she doesn't hear him insulting me, shouting, pushing me around, she isn't physically pulled out of my arms (well, she was last Monday during the handover), she doesn't see me crying.

Separation was the least bad option, by a wide margin.

Thanks all for sharing - nice to know we children of divorce are not alone

It's not right to simplify this issue into "people should divorce/people should stay together". People should do what they judge is best for them, and they should also move heaven and earth to manage the impact of that choice on the kids.

And remember that it's much easier to achieve a clean break if you have no kids. Some divorcing couples continue to fight viciously for years afterwards, with the kids acting as go-betweens or being forced to take sides. The fighting can even get worse, as there's nothing left to lose and so the gloves come off. Often one partner is left devastated and bitter at having divorce forced on them, so there may be even more rancour afterwards than there was before. Divorce may be the only way out of a bad situation, but no-one should be under the illusion that it's an easy one.

mjinhiding - good for you for supporting your DS's relationship with his dad! I know it's not always easy so well done (sorry, hope that didn't sound too patronising!)

theboobmiester - your experience is similar to mine except I thought my mum had "made my daddy go away" and blamed her for years before she sat me down and told me what an utter tw@t he had been to her and to us.

She raised us on her own (giving up everything for us) until I was 9 and she met my stepdad - who I adore and I have said before, is my hero. As I grew older and wiser, I saw my bio dad a few times. No hostility, we were like "friends". I just couldn't be arsed to hate him.

Anyway, OP - You have to decide if your relationship is actually worth working at in the long term. If not you have to seperate. It will be tough for your DCs and for you but like so many have said, it's horrid to hear or see your parents being shitty to one another. I hated it and much preffered them apart. Once dad had gone, my mum became a totally different person, confident and happy. Spoke volumes really....

I was searching on google for some information and this thread popped up.

I have been having problems with the other half for a few months now, in November 2010 we moved 350 miles away from our home to Kent, I have given it a go but feel terribly isolated and miserable, me and the oh dont talk and its been slowly getting worse, i explained to him I wanted to move back north, he told me I could do what I wanted but I couldnt take our DD, then he told me I was selfish and a bad mother.

He then decided after all this nastyness to tell me although he didnt love me, we should stay together for the sake of our daughter.

I have been away for 2 weeks staying up north with friends and family and have made up my mind to leave him, I should point out I am 15 weeks pregnant so this hasnt come as an easy decision.

But as out 2 yr old has already picked up on mummy and daddy having seprate rooms, I cant see what impression of an adult relationship it will give her and our new baby if she considers it normal that a couple dont sleep in the same room and dont speak to each other.

I have had to email him everything as he doesnt do talking, and I hope he sees things from my side, I would love for us to be friends, but we are disastouos as a couple!