Is it always better to stay together for the sake of the kids?

[chrissiejames]

I feel that dh and I don't love each other any more. We have never been great about talking about stuff anyway, but we are becoming more and more nasty to each other, to the extent that my 6 and 7 year olds tell us to stop squabbling. He certainly talks to me as if he can't stand the sight of me "please stop biting your nails it is really very unattractive", "are you actually trying to be thick" when I don't immediately follow what he is talking about, etc etc. I don't enjoy sex with him, it's down to once a month and I never initiate it. I find it harder still to have sex when he is so awful, so for once, I tried to be communicative and explain this evening when he suggested an "early night" that I find it hard to disassociate him being so horrid with then being affectionate physically. His reaction? Walks off, slams the door without a word and goes to the spare bedroom to sleep.
When a friend told me recently that she is separating from her dh, I felt so envious. Surely this isn't normal? There is no one else in my life (unlike my friend who has met someone else), but when I spend time with dh and the kids, I always think we are all happier when dh isn't around - he gets very angry when the kids squabble and tells me off for not teaching them better manners. Argh im really just letting off steam cos I don't want to tell my friends - I know that compared to many people on this thread, my problems are insignificant - he isn't cheating on me, he doesn't hit me, etc etc. I just know Im not happy, but I remember reading somewhere that it is almost always better for families to stay together if they can, so I am probably just being incredibly selfish by even thinking of life without him. Has anyone here left and been happier without dh? Or is it a case of the grass is always greener??

Where on earth have you read that it is always better for families to stay together??

Do you think your dc enjoy seeing you two arguing. Kids aren't stupid, they will know that you aren't happy.

In my opinion, kids are happier if they have two separated but happy parents. I know that I would have been.

gosh, that sounds really sad. for you and your DC. your Dh doesn't sound like he's having fun either...

all i can say from my experience of having parents who tried to "stay together for the sake of the kids" is that my brother and i were so pleased and relieved when they finally separated then divorced.

i know it must be difficult to contemplate, but i think you know what's best for you and your family. good luck.

It's better to try and be happy, IMO, together if possible. Couples counselling is one option surely?

But if you can't be, and there is open hostility and lack of respect, then i think it's quite reasonable to separate and try for an amicable co-parenting arrangement. It can't be a good foundation for your children's idea of love to be skewed by parents constantly at war.

Actually I think it's more likely to do harm than good - children are happier when their parents are happier, even apart, (though the actual split can be tough on them, they will be overall happier in the long run, and there are ways of handling it which reduce the stress for them too) and if you are happily single or go into another relationship, you are modelling good relationship skills for them - staying put and making do are not good relationship skills for children to learn, if that makes sense!

I'm sorry but I do actually think most children given the option would choose to have two bio parents together that argue, than apart. What child would want them to separate unless there was a solid reason, like abuse etc? DCs are very selfish. They want mum and dad. I'm in similar situation to OP. I am only with DP because of the DCs. We are alright together but I could be happier if I were able to find someone else.

I can't bear the thought of breaking up the family so want to keep trying despite it meaning I am foresaking a 'better' relationship - and i have recently had another offer from a man that I know is a better match for me.

It's harsh, but I really don't agree with the fact that you should just move on when the romance is over. Unless there is a definate reason I think there is an obligation to stick it out - at least until the DCs have grown up and moved out. That isn't to say that I don't think about it all the time.

Gosh, it's late to be starting a post about this! You mners are night owls!

I don't think anybody is suggesting that it's fine and dandy to just chuck in the towel when the honeymoon period is over- it's worth working at improving your relationship. But living in misery is not ultimately doing your children any favours.

Thanks for your replies.

Couples counselling - I just can't see him ever agreeing to that - he hates talking about feelings, yes I know all men hate it, but he would just find it excruciating. But maybe if he realises just how bad I think things are, he would go along with it... whenever we watch any tv where any of the characters see counsellors or anything like that, he is very dismissive/condescending about it, as if it is a weakness.

And thanks Mojo for sharing how you felt about your parents splitting.

Popzie - do you think dh knows you are unhappy? Are you both openly hostile to each other? I agree with dcs being selfish and wanting both, but wanting both when they show no respect for each other? My 6 year old was shouted at by dh the other day for laughing too loudly (seriously) and she (sensitive flower) burst into tears and came up to me saying dad is always so grumpy, I wish I had a new dad. I know I should have said of course you don't, but I couldn't. It just seems such a toxic atmosphere for the kids. And when you say you think about leaving all the time - do you think you will be unhappy with dh then for the rest of your life/until the kids leave home?? the thought depresses the hell out of me.

Well my parents got divorced when I was 6, yes I was devestated at the time, but within a few years I understood that my mum and dad weren't happy together and would never have been happy together, saw Dad go on to meet my Stepmum and be much happier with her. Mum hasn't met anyone else but I still would take my actual childhood over one where they had stayed together and argued, put each other down etc constantly. And having this experience made me realise that it was OK to leave when I was in a relationship which was not healthy at all, and so I am happy - if I had grown up thinking that a disfunctional relationship was normal, I might still be with my XP, and I am in no doubt that leaving him was the best thing to do. Take from that what you will!

its not better to stay together if its not right. My ex and i split when my DS's were 5 and 1.5 and when asked now DS1 said he was glad because all the arguments stopped and everything became peaceful. We are no better friends than ever before and still do lots of things together. Both boys are happy and well rounded lads.also their education didnt suffer which i feel is a good measure of their emotional state too.

I have been living like you for years. It is horrible, you have my sympathy.
However, we have now separated, it took 6 months to sell the house, but in the last month, since me and dc have been in our house and soon to be XH is elsewhere, we are all so much calmer. There are still arguments, but they blow over in 2 minutes, and we have spent far more time enjoying each others company.
The children have seen their Dad, we are only communicating via text and email, but that is fine.
And how do I feel?? I sleep through the night now, I feel happy, calm, peaceful, like the weight has lifted off my shoulders.
It has been a really hard few months, preceded by a really tough few years, but I am convinced that separating was the right thing to do, and the children have a much more positive role model than parents who really do not like or respect each other any more.
I wish you lots of luck.

It's never better to stay together for the sake of the children.

I think this relationship is over and the fact you row in front of the kids is not on, especially when they have no chance of seeing you make up.

The honeymoon period certainly over but what has taken it's place. Him being an abusive twat and you quite rightly wanting to get out. You don't need this stress. I would leave. Your kids no doubt don't want to intervene in your fights any longer and you need to set them an example and show them that you won't stand for his criticisms.

"please stop biting your nails it is really very unattractive", "are you actually trying to be thick"

Him saying these things is not a couple arguing; it's him chipping away at your self esteem. Wake up and smell the coffee people. It will get worse, not better. He is behaving abomnably.

An aunt of mine, stayed with her DH as the kids begged her to. Eventually they grew up and left home and he developed dementia in old age and gave her even more grief than he did when he was ok.

Throughout the marriage, he beat her, deprived her of money and affection and was permenently nasty, treated her like shite.

Her thoughts were for her kids but she had a miserable life! The kids all left home and never gave it a second thought.

My parents split up when I was 8 or 9 and I had a bit of a rought time of it when it happened, but I have grown up a grounded person and have a stable and happy marriage.

I would not stay and be miserable and your kids will get over it. The longterm affects on them being in a hostile home is far worse then a little bit of short term disruption due to a breakup

"My 6 year old was shouted at by dh the other day for laughing too loudly (seriously) and she (sensitive flower) burst into tears and came up to me saying dad is always so grumpy, I wish I had a new dad. I know I should have said of course you don't, but I couldn't"

Actually I don't think you should have said "of course you don't". That would have been denying her right to have her own feelings. Maybe you could have reminded her of good things about her father, or the potential downside of another, but to tell her she does not feel what she has told you she does feel is... is... someone help me, what is it... it isn't right, anyway. It's denying her right to have an opinion, in a way. She should be able to come to you in confidence and tell you her deepest thoughts, and to have them respected, not denied or belittled. That is not to say wishing she had a different daddy is a good thing, but we all wish things we shouldn't at times and it helps to vent with someone we trust. Then maybe we can work through our feelings rationally and come to a better conclusion. But if you said to your best friend "H is really pissing me off", how would you feel if she said "No he isn't"? Annoyed? Rebuffed?

So you can be easier on yourself for not doing it!

I agree with bucharest. I don't think it's ever better to stay together for the sake of the children. My parents did this and I am totally f*cked up as a result.

I realise I am biased but you could be teaching your children that unhappiness in a relationship is normal, etc.

Also, why on earth would you have sex with someone you don't like/want? I appreciate it's probably just easier to go along with it but what would happen if you said "no"?

Your husband sounds like a right twat, frankly. It sounds like you've done more than grown apart; you've grown to have contempt for one another, and it's showing.

Why not try a separation period and see how it feels? It doesn't have to be all or nothing. And it might get him to agree to counselling.

But if you continue without doing anything to try and change the status quo, the status quo will worsen.

I'm a child of divorced parents. I was enormously relieved when after 10 years of living in a tense, anxious, argument-filled house they decided to split up.
Do not underestimate the effect that two parents living together unhappily has on your kids. All these people who are staying together to make their kids happy - it doesn't work and you are delusional if you think it's a better option. It just teaches them to put up with shitty relationships as adults.
It's not throwing the towel in if you've both genuinely tried everything you can to make it work and it is still crap.

Hi, regular namechanger here - cube of poo, is that you UCM, moldies, cod, etc.

I'm in a similar situation to OP, except I'm at the stage where I've told my husband I want to separate, but he refuses to leave and insists he wants to try again. He says he can't bear to leave the children, that they need us both and that if I want him to go I'll have to serve him with papers, because he will never sit down and tell the children he is choosing to leave them.

A few years ago I would have been happy to try, but it's taken him so long to agree to counselling (which we are doing) that the love and respect has dried up and I just don't see how to get it back.

I don't believe in staying for the children - he does. So I'm being forced to stay in a situation that I think is bad for us all.

What I'm trying to say, OP, is if you know it is over, and your husband agrees to leave, then that must be for the best.

Good luck.

I think it does more damage to stay. My parents clearly did not love each other - they did their duty but with little respect for each other.
The time was never 'right' for them to part - and then it was it was too late.
My mum became ill and is not looked after by my father.
so she is cared for by someone she would rather not and he looks after someone he would rather not.
Neither can leave now - but it is very sad to watch.

Your children will know in the end too.

You ladies are great - thank you so much for your wise words. It has made me realise that I don't have to spend the rest of my life accepting this for the sake of the kids - which in itself is such an uplifting revelation!

dh's parents had a bad relationship- his father was domineering and horrid to his mother who was meek and mild and accepted everything that was thrown at her. Strangely, dh recognizes that his father was awful but doesn't realise that he is becoming more and more like him.

thanks all.
x

Chrissie a very wise person on my thread called Rycie said this to me:

"I know you want a stable father figure for your kids, but it is equally important that your children see their mother being treated with love and respect, both by a partner and by herself.

The message we send to our daughters when we sell ourselves short by accepting far far less than we should can have a profound impact in how they see themselves as women and their expectations from relationships.

You do your children no favours by perpetuating a situation in which their father figure is unrealiable and dishonest. Of course he will always be this person, but as cestlevie points out, it may only be the end of your relationship that prompts him to reexamine this.

At the least, they will understand that their mother values herself too highly to be treated poorly, and this is a far greater example to set for them."

I am in the process of starting a divorce and these words really resonated with me, maybe they will with you too. Your children may not be girls, be even so...

Your situation is a little different but you cannot allow him to continue treating you this way.