Need some clarity - long... sorry...

[sadstory]

I really hope someone can read this and help me with what to do next, because I'm at the end of my tether.

My dh and I have been married nearly 13 years, together for 18 - since we were very young. We have two dses, 11 and 9.

For the last 5 years I have been having therapy which has helped me to realise that our relationship has been largely to blame for the anxiety and depression that drove me to therapy in the first place. I'm not blaming dh, it's been a bad dynamic from the start, I think.

About three years ago I begged dh to go for counselling and told him I didn't feel the way I should about him. I'd been away on a course and just felt so much lighter and happier, and to be honest didn't want to come back. This was also complicated by the fact that I had met a man on this course who I got on extremely well with - nothing happened - but I told dh, who then trawled through my emails and found one in which I had (wrongly, I know) been telling my best friend about this man (only in a 'coo, look at him' kind of way, but still, not good...).

Anyway, he was very upset, as he had every right to be, but we carried on trucking, no counselling, same bugbears and problems rearing their heads every five minutes.

Problems were - I wanted another child, he didn't, but wouldn't have vasectomy, we didn't use contraception so sex became a battle ground. I was taking pregnancy tests more or less every month and he knew this. Also, he works Saturdays and refused to stop even though I thought it was killing our family life and we don't need the money.

I'm not saying I was an angel - I'm far from it. I'm a stroppy shouty mare who isn't very good at seeing where she is wrong.

However, it gets worse. About a year ago I became very close to another man - I fell in love with him. We laughed so much together, he was kind and listened to me and took me seriously. In the end I told dh and he finally agreed to come to counselling.

So that's where we're at. Only problem is, counselling to me is showing up that we clearly should separate. The counsellor says that we seem to be speaking completely different languages, that I crave empathy and dh is unable to give it, that I need to decide whether I can live without empathy. Well, having experienced it with OM, I have to say I don't think I can. But dh is determined that we can make it work, that the feelings can come back if we just behave well around each other. I think this is just magical thinking. Every time I bring up the prospect of separating he just says that he couldn't bring himself to leave the children, that it would have to be me who instigated it because he wouldn't want the kids to think he wanted to leave them, that he just wants us all to be together.

So, I suggested putting a time limit on it - say, if things don't improve within six months. He said, no, because you'll be just counting down to when I leave. I suggested living apart together, he said no, he couldn't do that. I suggested an amicable split, with a friendly relationship and shared care of the children, he said he wouldn't be able to do that because he would resent me for making him leave.

I just feel I have nowhere left to turn. I can't make myself fall in love again, can I?

I just feel it's all too little too late. In the course of the therapy, dh pinpointed the last time he thought we were happy as a couple. I was amazed to hear that it was exactly the last time I was happy - almost ten years ago, when our second ds was a baby. I asked how he'd managed to soldier on for so long and he said that other aspects of his life were going ok, so it wasn't all bad. That made me cross for reasons I can't quite work out.

What terrifies me more than anything is the prospect of being trapped in this marriage and ending up having another affair because I can't get my needs met here. I've told this to dh, whose reply is something along the lines of "control yourself, then." Well, I always thought I could, but for me the affair was never about sex (we never actually had sex) it was always about emotional fulfilment...and I can't guarantee that if someone shows me kindness and empathy, that I'll be able to resist. I want to say I will, but I don't know for sure, having succumbed once before.

I can't be a good person in this marriage, but I don't want to be the baddy who ends it. I need us to be amicable for the boys' sakes.

I'm in a mess. Thanks for reading, if anyone has

sadstory....i understand EXACTLY what you mean here!!

it happened to me too....i was in n abusive relationship tho,very. but it was another man who let me see i wasnt going mad,SOME men would be still interested in me,i was still ME!

in your heart if its over,then its over.

not all marriages are for life,they certainly dont have to be. people fall out of love.....its not unusual at all

BTW when we were in our mess DH made it clear I would have to go.

It's so hard, though, isn't it 3BB?

I've always put other peoples' happiness before my own - and the one time I didn't (OM) I chose to do it in a sneaky way.

Perhaps time will bring clarity. I don't know. Am tired.

So you decided to stay, Fab?

Can I ask who was the discontented party? If it was you, how did you get the feeling back?

Yes, not that I was ever seriously leaving. I couldn't.

We were both fine until my ex came back. 6 years ago I was convinced I loved my ex (though not in touch, just from rereading diaries ) and wasn't sure I loved Dh. What brought me to my senses was him saying he figured he had better see a solicitor.

This time around I never stopped loving DH. I had feelings for both. I made a choice to stay with dh and not talk to my ex as I would have been leaving my marriage to be exes mistress as leaving his wife was never something he would do.

I think the difference between our situations, Fab, is that me and dh were not fine, haven't been for years.

And I am as mad as hell with him now he's told me he's known that for ten years, but wouldn't do counselling, wouldn't do a thing I asked and wouldn't do anything positive to improve stuff.

Now I'm the bad guy for meeting someone else and for wanting out.

It just doesn't seem fair.

You are the only once who can change the situation though.

I know...

Sorry for bump, would welcome any other thoughts.

It sounds so hard for you sadstory, and I really do sympathise with you

But....I can really see where your DH is coming from

I think you are right that the relationship has to end, and I think you're right that the best possible way would be for you both to agree to do it, but how often does that really happen? Most relationships are ended by one person, it's not ideal (far from it) but it usually is one persons decision

From his perspective he wants to stay in the relationship, it's not a good one, he's probably not happy in it but he wants to stay in it, so why are you trying to force him to agree to seperate?

You want to seperate (and for good reason as far as I can see) so as hard as it is the onus really is on you to make that decision and follow through with it

But I really wish you all the best with it

Yes, you're right, ImmortalBeloved.

Perhaps I do need to get some strength from somewhere.

I just keep thinking about how I would feel if he was trying to make me live away from our children.

And that thought makes me crumble, because I know he loves them every bit as much as I do.

I'm sorry sadstory if my post came across as harsh, I really didn't mean it to

For what it's worth I actually think you've been really strong, to stay and to try everything first is the strong thing to do, you've really thought this through from all sides including his, I really admire and respect you for that, I suspect I would've walked away a long time ago

I know it must seem awful to be asking him to leave his home and his kids (and it is a horrible thing to happen to anyone) but it's awful for you to be trapped in an unhappy relationship too, you matter too . Sadly when relationships break down there are rarely any winners However things will get better, you will both move on and if you work together the kids will still 'be with' both of you, he might even be happier in the long run even if he can't see it now, ten years is such a long time to be unhappy

I'm sorry if I'm making it sound easy, I know it isn't but (cliche alert coming up) life really is too short to be so unhappy

Watery

Can I just say that it is easy to appear empathetic to someone when you want to get into their knickers (ie the OM). I think it is rather courageous of your DH to want to try to work on the marriage.

I am surprised that the counsellor would give such a leading opinion re: your DH's lack of empathy. Can she not instead help to give him advice as to how to become more empathetic? The grass is not always greener and it is tough being a single parent. Plus there are plenty who would leave you high and dry at least your DH is prepared to stick with you.

I think you might be right in a way, ike1. I do wonder sometimes whether I was a sitting duck for OM because I was so lonely, and he knew just which buttons to press.

We did have a real spark, though.

And you're right about dh...he does stick by me.

As far as the counsellor goes, she didn't judge dh. She just pointed out that we are very different people - he's all logic and I'm all emotion, and that makes communication very difficult.

I think I'm going to just try to recommit to the marriage, see how it goes with the counselling and whether the lack of OM-shaped distractions helps matters any, and not make any decisions for at least a year.

It's a plan, anyway...