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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Need some clarity - long... sorry...

65 replies

sadstory · 02/04/2010 12:20

I really hope someone can read this and help me with what to do next, because I'm at the end of my tether.

My dh and I have been married nearly 13 years, together for 18 - since we were very young. We have two dses, 11 and 9.

For the last 5 years I have been having therapy which has helped me to realise that our relationship has been largely to blame for the anxiety and depression that drove me to therapy in the first place. I'm not blaming dh, it's been a bad dynamic from the start, I think.

About three years ago I begged dh to go for counselling and told him I didn't feel the way I should about him. I'd been away on a course and just felt so much lighter and happier, and to be honest didn't want to come back. This was also complicated by the fact that I had met a man on this course who I got on extremely well with - nothing happened - but I told dh, who then trawled through my emails and found one in which I had (wrongly, I know) been telling my best friend about this man (only in a 'coo, look at him' kind of way, but still, not good...).

Anyway, he was very upset, as he had every right to be, but we carried on trucking, no counselling, same bugbears and problems rearing their heads every five minutes.

Problems were - I wanted another child, he didn't, but wouldn't have vasectomy, we didn't use contraception so sex became a battle ground. I was taking pregnancy tests more or less every month and he knew this. Also, he works Saturdays and refused to stop even though I thought it was killing our family life and we don't need the money.

I'm not saying I was an angel - I'm far from it. I'm a stroppy shouty mare who isn't very good at seeing where she is wrong.

However, it gets worse. About a year ago I became very close to another man - I fell in love with him. We laughed so much together, he was kind and listened to me and took me seriously. In the end I told dh and he finally agreed to come to counselling.

So that's where we're at. Only problem is, counselling to me is showing up that we clearly should separate. The counsellor says that we seem to be speaking completely different languages, that I crave empathy and dh is unable to give it, that I need to decide whether I can live without empathy. Well, having experienced it with OM, I have to say I don't think I can. But dh is determined that we can make it work, that the feelings can come back if we just behave well around each other. I think this is just magical thinking. Every time I bring up the prospect of separating he just says that he couldn't bring himself to leave the children, that it would have to be me who instigated it because he wouldn't want the kids to think he wanted to leave them, that he just wants us all to be together.

So, I suggested putting a time limit on it - say, if things don't improve within six months. He said, no, because you'll be just counting down to when I leave. I suggested living apart together, he said no, he couldn't do that. I suggested an amicable split, with a friendly relationship and shared care of the children, he said he wouldn't be able to do that because he would resent me for making him leave.

I just feel I have nowhere left to turn. I can't make myself fall in love again, can I?

I just feel it's all too little too late. In the course of the therapy, dh pinpointed the last time he thought we were happy as a couple. I was amazed to hear that it was exactly the last time I was happy - almost ten years ago, when our second ds was a baby. I asked how he'd managed to soldier on for so long and he said that other aspects of his life were going ok, so it wasn't all bad. That made me cross for reasons I can't quite work out.

What terrifies me more than anything is the prospect of being trapped in this marriage and ending up having another affair because I can't get my needs met here. I've told this to dh, whose reply is something along the lines of "control yourself, then." Well, I always thought I could, but for me the affair was never about sex (we never actually had sex) it was always about emotional fulfilment...and I can't guarantee that if someone shows me kindness and empathy, that I'll be able to resist. I want to say I will, but I don't know for sure, having succumbed once before.

I can't be a good person in this marriage, but I don't want to be the baddy who ends it. I need us to be amicable for the boys' sakes.

I'm in a mess. Thanks for reading, if anyone has

OP posts:
GettinTrimmer · 02/04/2010 13:35

Sadstory, he is selfishly just using his advantage at arguing. We are just off out - I will drop in later if you still want to talk. Take care.

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:36

Thanks, GettinTrimmer

OP posts:
BritFish · 02/04/2010 13:38

sadstory.
does he know that his behaviour affects the DC's too? you should ask him what he plans to do to raise his children in a positive environment, because your relationship is FINISHED, and he is solely responsible for any bad feeling your DC's will pick up when they are with him.
tell him he cant play the 'whats best for the kids' argument if he is not actually willing to do whats best for the kids and is just hiding behind a weak outdated mentality to excuse his own hopelessness at DEALING WITH IT.
he sounds like a man who is very good at arguing.

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:45

He is. As I said earlier in the thread, even the therapist says he bamboozles her with words.

She identified a dynamic that happens between us, where I bring an issue up, and he talks until all the energy is gone out of the discussion and I just flop and say "whatever".

But, all the anger and resentment stay inside me, and whaddya know? I stupidly go and stupidly have a stupid affair.

I don't like myself atm. I just don't have any strength

OP posts:
BritFish · 02/04/2010 13:59

you can do this. you can be happy, its possible to be happy. why does he suck all the life out of you? because he cant handle the fact he's all talk and no substance.
having an affair was wrong, but you know that, and you know its the wakeup call you needed. if you cant find an emotional connection within your relationship, then what point is there?
its nearly over, you just need to summon up the strength for one final push where there's no talking, just CHANGE.
you can do it, it will feel like breathing after being underwater for so long.
its like waiting for your DC's to be born, there's all this waiting and discomfort, you just need to put all the energy you dont think you have left into one final push, and you'll be free, and happy.
you CAN do this. he's talking and not taking any positive action, so you need to, for the sake of your DC's, but for YOURSELF. in 20 years time, your DC's wont hate you for trying to be happy, i promise.

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 02/04/2010 13:59

So what happens if you say in the therapy session that that's it - you need to split and want to discuss here and now in the session how to make that happen?

Can the three of you then get to a conclusion there in the session and if not - come back to it the next week (sorry I know this must be exhausting) until you get to a conclusion that is as good as it can be. And in the session you say, for example, that you're going to need to talk about this until you can find an outcome that works?

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:02

In the last therapy session, I looked dh in the eye, and I said,

"Look, we're both nice people. We deserve to be happy. We don't deserve to live like this. I don't like myself in this relationship. I know I'm a much better person than the way I behave with you. You're the only person I'm stroppy and shouty with. There's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with me. We just don't work together."

I couldn't make it any clearer, could I?

OP posts:
Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:05

To be fair, he is taking positive action, in that he's trying to give me what I need.

But it just doesn't touch me. I feel like I'm behind glass.

I think in my head I've already gone. Well, I've told him that. That's when he told me to grow some.

OP posts:
IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 02/04/2010 14:12

Then hard though it is, I'm inclined to think that you just need to carry on saying it at the therapy sessions until he hears it. And to start planning your new world.

As I see it you've got two choices...

  1. Force the issue now (as amicably as is possible and I appreciate it may not be amicable)
  1. Keep going at it in therapy until he caves or until you somehow find an alternative way through it together
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:12

If you could fix things and be happy with your dh, would you want too?

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:13

I don't know, Fab.

I thought so, but now the therapist has said that I will never get any empathy from him because he just can't do it, I don't think so, no

OP posts:
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:15

She doesn't know that for sure.

Half the battle of fixing a broken relationship is wanting too.

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:16

That's dh's line.

I tend to trust therapists...am I wrong to do so?

OP posts:
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:18

Not wrong but don't use them as if they know everything and everything about your relationship. YOU are the expert on that.

My marriage was on the rocks but we are so happy now.

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:20

The other problem I have is recommitting to something that hasn't worked so far.

I mean, if we couldn't make it work when we were young and in love and didn't have all this history, how on earth are we meant to make it work now?

I didn't know how easy it could be to be around someone till I met OM, who wasn't defensive or argumentative. He had his faults, but he was so relaxing to spend time with.

Comparisons are odious, I know.

OP posts:
Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:21

But I don't feel like an expert on it. I just feel like its dead in the water. Dh doesn't.

I'm so mixed up.

OP posts:
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:22

It sounds to me like you have given up and can't summon up any desire to try and fix things with your husband. Did you want to leave before this other man came on the scene?

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:23

As far as the therapist goes, it's often as if she's echoing my thoughts about what's wrong with us as a couple.

It makes me feel vindicated, but then frustrated when dh won't accept it.

OP posts:
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:23

x-posts there.

What are you mixed up about? Specifically.

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:24

OM was a catalyst. I had serious doubts and knew we were unhappy - I had begged dh to go for counselling and told him I wasn't sure that I loved him about two or three years before OM.

OM has confirmed how up the creek we are, I think.

OP posts:
Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:26

What am I mixed up about?

I'm worried that my judgement is clouded by how well I got on with OM.

I don't want the kids to not live with their dad. He's very close to them and great with them.

OP posts:
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:27

Then you leave and the children stay with him?

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:28

I've even suggested that, which I'm shocked at.

But of course, I could never do it.

And he says he wouldn't let me, the kids need their mum, but if I want him to go I'll have to grow some and tell him to leave.

Maybe he's right.

OP posts:
FabIsGettingThere · 02/04/2010 14:31

It does seem terribly unfair that he has to leave the family home when he doesn't want the marriage to end but clearly you feel you can't go on like this any longer.

Original poster
sadstory · 02/04/2010 14:33

Yep, Fab, that's where we're at.

I keep thinking, if the boot was on the other foot, how would I feel? And that's when my resolve crumbles. I can't do it to him.

But I can't go on being miserable either. And I sure as hell don't want to fall into another stupid affair. They're no fun for anybody

OP posts:
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