Can he ever change?

[readyfornumber2and3]

Hi all this may get long and be waffly so sorry in advance

I have been with dh for just over 5 years but we have only been married since december!
We have a nearly 4yo ds and 7 1/2 month old boy/girl twins.
Things have always been a bit rocky and we have had many blazing rows in the past and have nearly split several time

He winds me up with nearly everything he does and I can no longer control my anger and end up ranting and screaming at him over really trivial things! He says that the reason we always argue is that I am a miserable cow and that I have always "got a face on"
In my eyes the reason that we argue is the fact that he is just bone idle at home and also that he seems to get a kick out of annoying me!

I ask him to little things to help as I am on all day with the 3 kids and then I work weekends and mornings too, so I get quite tired by the evening.
I expect him to wash up after dinner and make a batch of bottles and sometimes I ask him to tidy and sort out his things (he is in to gadgets and there is boxes of wires and adapters everywhere!)
He tells me that he cant remember all the things I expect of him so I need to write him a list and he will only do things on the list I argued that he was a grown man and capable of remembering 2 or 3 things but it just wasnt worth the effort so I gave in and started writing the list everyday!

The 1st couple of days were fine and he did the jobs I asked, but then he started making excuses- the were already 4 bottles made so no point making more, he was selling things on ebay so couldnt put them away or just simply "I will do it in the morning" (and then obviously it didnt happen)
He then started getting really stupid, one night I spelt sterilise wrong on the list so he refused to do it as he didnt know what it said

I have been having alot of problems with him groping me inappropriately and not listening when I say no to it recently and have tried to explain how I hate it and that it is a big turn off for me but he doesnt listen and says he keeps doing it because I never cuddle him and he feels rejected. I can understand that but the reason I dont cuddle him is that he doesnt know what boundaries are and as soon as I agree to a cuddle he always tries to take it further and we end up in a vicous circle!

I have been on my period (sorry if tmi) this week and he knows I wont have sex when I am but has been pestering all week and asking for blow jobs and then sulks when I say no, I again tried to explain that him pestering all the time makes me even less in the mood but he just doesnt seem to understand!
Then things really hit home about how he sees me when I gave him a list on monday night, I wanted him to strilise and make some bottle, wash up and tidy all his things of the dining table.
He put the steriliser but refused to make the bottle till the morning, he did wash up but didnt sort the table. When I reminded him it needed doing he told me that he wasnt doing anything for me as he wasnt getting sex in return so why should he

That was kind of it for me and I have told him that I hate him and want him to move out.

It may not sound like much whe written down but he has constatly worn me down for years and I really cant take anymore.
He never takes me seriously and if I suggest something or tell him how something is done he never believes me and will only go by what is written on the internet.
He moans at me for buying fresh food for the family and says we dont have enough money for it but then expects me to agree to him spending hundreds on gadgets that we dont need.
He is very unsociable with people and actually has no friends and never goes out, and unfortunately he has brought me down to the point that I have no real friends anymore and the only time I go out is with my mum!
He hates spending time with anyone outside the 5 of us and makes me look stupid when we have a family get together and he wont come!

Now I have told him it is over he keeps telling me that he is sorry and that he loves me and he doesnt want us to split up ad will do anything it takes but he says that everytime and within a week he is back to normal and the rows start again.

I really cant live like this any longer but I am scared of being left with 3 children on my own and how I will cope and I also feel guilty that I am tearing our family apart.

He says that I am always angry and he behaves like he does because of it, so maybe its me thats in the wrong and I need to change?

I really dont know what to do anymore, I want whats best for the kids but I really dont know what that is!

So can he change, or do I need to change or do I need to accept that this is the bed I have made and to get on with it?

Any advice welcome x

anyone?

Hi. Would just like some time to re-read what you have written before responding. There's quite a lot to take in but will get back to you.

hi i didnt want to leave this with no replys as your obviously desperate, don't worry lots of people with better advice then me will come along. it sounds like such an awful situation, i dont think your in the wrong, if your not happy it's not wrong to want a better life. it can't be good for the kids either so stay strong and don't be made to feel a bitch, your not.

He sounds like a bit of a selfish, immature git to me.

Yes he could change, but he has to understand that there is a problem for which is responsible. I know relationships have two people in them, but you are already seeking solutions, by coming on here. That's you taking your share of the responibilty already.

I am aware that I have a particular sensitivity shall we say, to these behaviours just now. So I worry about just how objective my advice would be. BUT there are things that you have said that would make me extremely concerned.

Start reading, informing yourself, and see if any of what you find is your relationship.

I'm not surprised he doesn't want to split... he's got the best end of the deal really hasn't he. You need to ask yourself- if you both get some relationship counselling and he does change, can you see yourself happy? Do you think he would be willing to try 'relate' or something similar?
At the moment you are not doing your kids any favours, they see their dad behaving like a pig and their mum run down and unhappy. IMO better to split a dreadfully unhappy and disfunctional family, than to carry on the same way (although I fully appreciate it's not that simple) You should feel no guilt, that's just a symptom of your low self esteem and the fact you obviously love your DC very much.
Sorry if my advice isn't very good, I'm not experienced in this but wanted to write as I feel desperately sad for you

I feel so lost and empty, I have strived for so long to make my relationship seem happy from the outside and now I have no idea who I am anymore

Nothing I do is good enough for him but I am apparently the ungrateful one!

I dont drive so he will always start arguements when I need to go somewhere and will refuse to drive the car unless I agree to apologise (whether my fault or not) and kiss and make up with him.
He thinks that the whole world owes him and will constantly take but is reluctant to give back.

He tells me I am a bad mother if I shout at ds but then shouts 10 times louder at him and smacks him for anything and everything!

I dont love him and dont want to be with him anymore but I am not strong enough to leave, I cant cope with all the stress of moving myself and the 3 children and he refuses to move out!
I lost a lot of weight in 2008 and as soon as I reached goal I got accused of having an affair and that I had done it so that I could leave him and find someone else! I put on quite a bit of weight with the twin pregnancy so have been dieting again and one minute he tells me he is proud of me but when I ask for reassurance about my body he makes me feel bad about myself.

Sorry this is quite waffly but I am trying to explain but its just a mess and I dont know whats what anymore

Anyone looking in thinks that he is just being a "typical" man and that I need to accept that women work harder in the home, I cant seem to put into words how his behaviour is wrong.
He ties me up in knots when we argue and I end up confused as to what I am arguing against as he goes off on tangents and never listens to the actual point Im making and then I end up losing my temper and so its easy for him to blame me and say that its all my fault for being so angry and unreasonable

I just dont know what or who I am, I dont know where to turn or what I even want anymore!

thrtee under fives, very busy, not good. you need support not another child...

will be difficult to change him. but you can change how you react.

start by not reacting to him - hard as it is, no more "end up ranting and screaming at him over really trivial things! "

by making lsits you give him control because eh then messes up witht he list... so ti isnt working.

if you can - see a counsellor even if only one visit your self and think of some ways of ye chaning how you react.

it is not your fault how he behaves - he choses to react the way he does, just as you do... but by taking control and being the calm and reasonable one - you can maybe become the leader here... maybe jsut one session with someone eg relationship guidance on your own would help with ideas and strategies for specific occasions and issues. "when he does/says this, is best for you to xxxxx"

by maybe deciding to be the calm one, not reacting in same way he does, staying calm and speaking in low calm voice to state what is needed to be done.... you will then know exactly how much he is prepared to change himself or not.

he acts like a spolt child - start treating him like one and applying supermanny techniques to him. you will soon know in a week or so how much he is willing to work or not on your family/relationship..then you can start taking decisions about future.

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!

Lundy Bancroft..."Why does he do that".

Patricia Evans...."The verbally abusive man..can he change"

Both on amazon...even the reviews of these books are good staring points.

Look up narcissitic personality disorder. Read the threads on here.

xxxx

You have so much on your plate with all this you must be worn out.

He is behaving like a child. You cannot use sex as a barter, it doesn't work like that and not to do a chore because of a spelling mistake is just beyond me. Although you are afraid of being a single parent to 3 it would appear that you are a single parent now but to 4 children.

It is completely unreasonable of him to expect you to deal with so much. Would it be possible to get a babysitter and go out for an evening to talk about it. Could you write a list of what you would like to change and talk it through with him? If you are out of the house you are both less likely to lose your tempers and have a reasonable conversation.

Could you maybe ask him to leave for a week or so to reflect on the situation if talking about it at the moment is not possible? You do not have to accept this behaviour.

This situation sounds really horrid for you and I understand that with a young child and little twins, it feels like you have the world on your shoulders. Sadly, your DH is taking huge advantage of this.

You mention that the only person you see is your mum - have you spoken to her about this?

It is a vicious circle isn't it? He doesn't pull his weight so you are tired and snappy and have a face on, and won't have sex with him, so he won't co-operate with you and help you with the kids and house.

What he wants is to have the "you" that he had before the kids/marriage etc. The woman who flirted with him and shagged him and laughed at his jokes and didn't nag him about mess and house work.

If you still love each other and want to stay together rather than splitting up you need to fidn some middle ground. What you want is for him to act like an equal partner in this childcare/running a house business and to do his BLOODY share!

You need to find a middle ground, he needs to understand that being childish and acting like a teenager and refusing to do things on the list because a word isn't correctly spelt is just being silly. There's nothing wrong with having a list - but it could be both of your lists rather than just his and you could both tick off jobs as you go. Thsi might show him that you do loads more than he realises. He probably thinks that lots of stuff gets done by the fairies...

In return for his pulling his weight you would have to perhaps stop sweating the small stuff - find a place to dump store all his cables and electronics and maybe make some time for sex.

It's a bit like training a dog - positive reinforcement works better than punishment.

Perhaps some couples counselling would help?

Not sure what to suggest about the socialising - again he is being selfish and only conidering his own needs. He needs to be trained out of this (somehow).

Sorry, have just read your last post.

No, he is not being a typical man - he is being abusive and controlling. Starting to see more coming out now.

You are his family, he is not doing you a favour by driving you places, it's what partners do.

His reaction to your weight loss is quite telling - he is obviously insecure and shows this insecurity by being aggressive. Rather than congratulating you he is chipping away at your confidence to boost his own.

I think you are strong enough to leave. I know it's daunting but the alternative is staying and carrying on with this life you are not happy in. Your children will end up unhappy in it too.

You say you don't love him anymore and don't want to be with him. Have you reached the point where no amount of talking will change your mind or, if he's willing to talk about it and change his ways, is there a way forward?

saddest I looked up NPD and while some of it fits perfectly alot of it doesnt so Im not sure thats it, he did have a very bad childhood though so I have spent many years blaming his behaviour on that.

cestlavielife I have tried to change my behaviour so that I dont react but he pushes and pushes! I try walking away but he follows, I tell him that I wont interact in the arguement but he keeps on in my face or threatens to take the kids and leave to make me take part.

karmann we tried the going out thing and we talk and things get better for a few days and then it all starts slipping again, when I tell him it is going wrong he tells me I am unreasonable to feel that way as he he has "only" done this. I am supposed to forget all previous similar behaviour. I have tried to explain that he has done "another" thing but he doesnt/wont recognise that

*honeybunmum he agrees to try relate but it never happens, I agree its not good for the kids but I cant seem to find the strength to walk away

squitten I try and talk to my Mum but she has been happily married for 37 years and is very old fashioned and believes that you must work at a marriage, she understands that he can be selfish but I cant get her to realise what he is really like, plus she says that I have a temper and I am to blame too.

If you don't love him then I can't see he has any redeeming features for you to stay with him. He is indeed a 4th child

just read your last post, that puts a different slant on it. If you don't love him and don't want to be with him then you need to find a way to leave.
do you have any RL support?

LadyBiscuit while I no longer love him I guess I am still grieving the man that I DID fall in love with and I suppose a small part of me is still hopeful that he may reappear one day

Karmann when I tell him its over he is always willing to talk and do whatever it takes, but from past experience its saying what I want to hear and the changes never happen. I dont want to live like this any longer but I am finding it hard to achieve that.

Have a look at the Patricia Evans book.

I am still not convinced that my h has a personality disorder. Although everything is on a spectrum. This book however has described him down to his toe nails...and his behaviour, and the reasons for the change in him, and what to do about it. Although I fear for us it is too late.

I completely understand the grieving for the man you thought you loved. Women's aid et al told me, in the very matter of fact way that they do, that this is the man you are dealing with NOW.

The isolating of you is deeply concerning.

The fact that you are beginning to feel it is because there is something wrong with you and the way you do things.

The refusal to take you seriously and take responsibilty.

Accusations, blaming and criticism. It is verbal abuse, as it defines you as something and somebody that you KNOW that you are not.

That is scary stuff. You already know that it is all wrong.

If you don't love him, all of the other stuff is irrelevant. You don't love him. You will never make each other happy without that, so if I were you I would be making plans to end my marriage. Even if he was the most perfect, attentive, affectionate person on the planet, if you don't love him you're just going to find fault.

chsm I totally agree with what you are saying, I guess I am just struggling with whether I mean what I say or not I know I dont love the way I am being treated but I also know that we have had some very good times and I loved THAT man and still do, I guess Im not really ready to give up on my marriage until I am sure that man is gone forever if that makes any sense?

I just dont know anything anymore

oh sweetie ((((readyfornumber2and3))))

if you don't love him I think you're mind is made up already. I tend to think people can't change that much.

I can understand you miss the old him, and he probably misses the old you too. But IMHO he sounds like an arse. And his childhood is no excuse either - he's an adult and barring an illness or disability he can and should take responsibility for his own behaviour!

ready for - a lot of what you say is described in anecdotes in the lundy bancroft book - do buy and read it! it certainly helped me to see the abusive behaviours of my exP.

re: his threats -they are just threats - he might take them off for few hours but he would soon be back wouldnt he? asking you to change their nappies...

me ex also refused to move out/allow for a break/go away adn think about what he really wanted (lots of other stuff too ie he had mental health issues as well) - in teh end i ahd to move out to rented property with 3 dcs (older tho).

you need to think about where this will go - if no one can persuade him to leave, even for a while, then seriously you might end up where you have to go...

is very hard when you in the thick of it, only by physical separation can you see what is what...

He sounds absolutely horrible.

I agree with Saddest above - believe me, I know how hard this is to get your head around. You fall in love with someone; you're a normal person so you believe that love is reciprocal; you make allowances, as you should, for things but things get worse.

I bet if you posted on the NPD thread, others would be able to predict what he does (doesn't do) next! My guess is that the man you fell in love with was a fake. The real thing is only just starting to emerge. Not a pretty prospect.

My advice: Shore yourself up in three ways.
1] Take excellent care of your self. Sod him, grow a deaf ear where he's concerned - don't argue, don't engage, just repeat bland phrases like "Oh dear". Put yourself and kids first, second, third & fourth.
2] Tell people. Take a deep breath and do it. You don't have to go into details, just say you're very unhappy in your marriage.
3] Find out your rights, financially and legally.

Now start taking care of yourself!
Good luck

Well he came home at lunch to try and talk and I refused and just nodded or shook my head to his questions (cant bring myself to talk to him)

He said well if its over lets tell ds1 now, I refused as I know its a mind game with him, so he said well we will tell him tonight.
He asked if I loved him- I shook my head
He asked if I would be happy- I nodded

I think because it would be so much easier if he did die ( God I sound awful!) but then I wouldnt need to admit that I married an abusive man and I wouldnt have to try and sort out all the shit of breaking up

He just got up and left, I them emailed him to say that we wouldnt be telling ds1 tonight as he doesnt need to know until everything is sorted and he is gone, I told him we needed to divide the savings and sort out maintainence and access etc.

I have had no reply and now he hasnt come home.

I know that it is a mind game and he is trying to scare me as he has done it many times before (and I caved and rang all desperate for him not to do anything stupid) and I am having to fight every urge not to ring him now.
I KNOW he is trying to rattle me but yet I still cant help but feel what if he did something?

I really hate my life and if it wasnt for my 3 gorgeous kids I think I would just end it all so that I didnt have to deal with it
I look at them and feel so guilty because they are gonna have crap lives because of MY mistakes and they will hate me for pushing their dad out of their lives.

I havent told anyone in rl about any of this because I dont want to admit that I got myself into such a crap life, I just dont know what to do anymore

I

Should have ready
He asked if I would be happy if he was dead

Yeah, he would ask that wouldn't he. Pulling your strings.

Please realise, there is NO SHAME in having loved the wrong person. Please tell somebody - one friend, perhaps? Another good idea is to call Women's Aid; it might take you a few tries to talk to somebody, but it will be such a relief when you do!

The world shouldn't be full of women who know just what you're going through (men, too, though mostly women) ... but it is

You've done nothing wrong.