DP has admitted he's an alcoholic - any advice?

[BemusedMum]

I have name changed because DP knows my usual name, and I'd rather he doesn't know about this thread yet...

I've been concerned by DP's drinking since Christmas. I was reading another thread on MN about another poster's alcoholic DH, my DP read it over my shoulder and it seemed to strike a chord with him. During a long discussion he said he did think he was dependant on alcohol, that he was scared and embarrassed. He realised he had to get 'on top' of his drinking, hoping to keep away from drink for a couple of weeks then only drinking a little every now and then. He didn't last three days. We are both quite shocked (I thought he had better self control, and neither of us realised drink had such a hold over him!) This was last night. We don't live together. I left his home a few hours ago and I am really hoping that he is sticking to his resolve not to drink.

I would like to support his recovery, but after last night I am not so certain I can. Iwas so cross and disappointed with him I almost called it a day then. I am worried I could waste the next few months/years of my life, only to end up in misery. He isn't a nasty drunk, but his hangovers can be uncomfortable to be around. I find the most frustrating thing to be that he is unable to do anything in the evening, or the morning! I do worry that there is a possibility of him becoming a nasty drunk.

There are so many thoughts and worrys running around my head, I just don't know where to start! I feel terribly sad.

Snorbs

That is indeed true - but a reading of the literature makes it clear that, as far back as the 1930s (when AA itself started, as distinct from the Oxford Group) several members were vociferous aetheists. They nevertheless were welcomed, stayed around and got sober (though, being american, the most well-known of these did indeed "find" a religious God as a part of that.)

Even the book 12 Steps and 12 Traditions acknowledges that, at least "for the time being", it is perfectly acceptable to acknowledge the group itself as your Higher Power.

and of coursee how long "the time being" lasts is entirely up to yuo ...

Miflaw, if a Christian told me they had been visited by the Virgin Mary I would treat them the same as if they told me they were visited by aliens. I would be very polite, keep my distance and hope that their own delusion didn't in any way qualify them to be anywhere near vulnerable people.

Isn't that the obvious response.

I get $5 everytime I mention the orange papers.

I am in the process of helping someone come out of a cult. It is not easy and obviously one has to be sensitive and give reassurances of unconditional love. We have good days and bad days but the important thing is that every day we start by reaffirming our receptiveness to learning and talking. Deep held beliefs, reinforced by brainwashing are hard to break. It's a labour of love and one I am very proud of. It's a return to sanity and (touch wood) it's going slowly but well.

Kirkers - yes, it is the obvious response. Yet you seem to treat the Orange Papers differently ...

FWIW I would be amazed if the cult you are talking about is AA because I have left several times. I didn't need help, I just walked out of the door.

Sadly, I found that, in my case at least, the destination of that walk was a pub or off licence. Each time, I have chosen to return to AA because I have found the hard way I don't have any better ideas, and I remain for the same reasons.

Where in the UK ARE all these scary meetings where unwilling members are restrained by force?

My uncle has been in AA for 20 years and it's saved his life. My MIL has been for 5 years and it's given back her life. My DH went to rehab for drug addiction and has been clean for 3 years but he doesn't go to many meetings now. Every once in a while when he feels he needs it. Both my uncle and MIL go a few times a week.

It's a journey. If you love him and genuinely believe you can have a relationship give him time. The worst day of my life was realising my DH had a serious drug addiction. We had 3 kids under 5 at the time. I used to go to group support meetings at the Priory and found it helpful.

Only your partner can help himself and only he can decide what he can do. Good luck.

I have just scanned through all of your posts, I'll give them a proper look tomorrow when my brain is awake. I wanted to fill you in quickly before I go to bed.

I am still not certain about what I am doing/will do. Twice since he has drunk again. Both times to excess, one of these occasions was at a family meal

...His marriage broke down because his ex moved in with another man (leaving him and the children behind). He began drinking in the evening after putting the children to bed as a means to relax (finished a hard day, open a bottle of wine). He just got into the habit of opening a bottle most evenings, sometimes with his dinner, sometimes once the children were in bed. When we met I thought nothing of this pattern of drinking - it seemed perfectly normal to me to open a bottle in the evening. It was only around Christmas that he began buying cans of larger that I began taking notice. Then I realised he was a shite one evening when no drink was offered (we were staying with family). Since then there wasn't an evening where he didn't drink. His drinking got progressively heavier each evening until he was struggling with hangovers in the mornings and doing the school run sweating (and breathing) beer.

He has been more candid about his drinking when I ask to discuss it (what his plans are etc) He has asked that I don't keep bringing it up, but congratulate him in the evening for not (as the morale boost might help). I haven't congratulated him in this way because I feel that in doing so I am congratulating his drinking (he wouldn't need congratulating if he didn't have a problem in the first place).

I'm not quite sure which way is up at the moment, but this thread is keeping me (marginally) focused. Thank you.

If I were you I'd congratulate him if he wants you to and if he doesn't drink. If he's an alcoholic then not drinking is hard for him so why wouldn't you congratulate him?

If you thought about alcoholism then you would see that, whatever he says, there is no way he would "choose" to drink like he does. Without exceptional personal effort, which goes far beyond "choosing" not to drink, he cannot help himself, so credit where it's due, eh?

I know that when he's drunk he's a monumental prick and it's hard to like or respect him - and I'd take whatever he tells you about this "sudden" beginning to his drinking with a pinch of salt, too - but, though in my view, he's not going about it in an effective way, he's making the effort, and he's probably doing that because he loves and cares about you. Hats off to him, I say.

It's good that he's open to reasonable discussion about it! Thanks for the update

The AA people used the analogy of a lift that's going down ... a long way down. I was lucky that I had the chance to get off at a high floor. That has stuck with me - the analogy - and also the lift, come to think of it! Whenever I drink more than "my" average, I remember to stop the damn lift.

I personally HATE people remarking on my drinking, whether they approve or criticise. But that's just me ... I understand your thinking, naturally, but if he wants approval for staying sober, I imagine it would be a positive thing to do. After all, AA gives you rounds of applause for it!

Just like diets, I suppose - I never tell anyone if I want to lose weight; maybe he's more the type who benefits from peer approval. I say go for it

Glad to see MIFLAW agrees.

Hint: Try to make subtly sure he always has a drink to hand, whenever he would 'normally' be on the wine or beer. No point in breaking two habits when one will do. It's not too hard at home, where you can have cups of tea/coffee on the go, but harder when you're out. Soft drinks don't last as long as alcoholic ones (I dislike pop, anyway) and it can be a challenge to figure out your acceptable tipples. The sooner you get your new preferences in place, the more achievable it all seems.

Also, we nearly all found we wanted more sugar when we stopped drinking. When you think about it, alcoholic drinks provide a lot of readily-available energy (fermented sugar). I'm a devil for the ginger nuts on my no-wine nights!!

Al Anon for yourself. He can follow your lead by attending AA if he is serious about it ..If his drinking is affecting you and the children, I would ask him to leave ...

Hiya, its fantastic that your dh has admitted he has a problem, normally that's the tricky part! Realising he has a problem is the first very important step and it doesn't necessarily matter so much that he wasn't able to keep his resolve of not drinking the first time around. If he's only just now realising the hold alcohol has over him that might be okay. He needs to shake it now he is aware though, and that is a time consuming issue.

My dad was an alcoholic. Not going to go into detail about how that was growing up as its detailed so many other places! However, he did seek help in the end and has been a teatotal for nearly 10 years now (yaay daddy!). So quitting does work. He lives in Norway and he was prescribed something called "Antabus" not sure if it exists under the same name in the UK. Basically if you take antabus and have a drink (even little) you will become violently ill - like having the worst stomach upset ever! For my dad it was a great deterrent as you can't drink up to 5 days after having had an antabus. So if he was feeling weak he basically had lots of time to think over the next 5 days before he could drink anyhow - that probably saved him to be honest as he's not that strong. In short a fantastic drug to get you over the time periods when you are tempted the most. He's been off the drug for many years now, but I think he took it for at least 2 years to make sure he wasn't going to be tempted. Its hard you know, alcohol is everywhere. Now, if only there was something similar for smoking he'd be practically healthy!

Regards to whether you want to stay or not...you'll have to figure that one out yourself I'm afraid. If it was me though I'd give him a defined time period to sort the problem out (e.g. 6 month or 9 or whatever) and if it wasn't sorted by then I'd leave. But your situation might be different from mine! Good luck!

Anyone worried about aa being a cult should look at Steve Hassan's website. He investigates cults and he has looked at aa in detail and decided that, although it fulfills SOME cult criteria, it is NOT a cult. And he is an expert. Very interesting website and good reading list.

I always try to agree - they brainwash us to do so in AA ... [JOKE!]

my ex is an alcoholic, admitting he has a problem is the first step but you need to be aware that recovery is an ongoing process that could take years. maybe give him a deadline to get his drinking to an acceptable level? with the help from an outside agency there are lots of places not just aa if he goes to his gp they can refere and you can go too. i went along with my ex when his drinking started to take over our lives and relationship and it really helped but he stopped going, obviosly not really ready to change yet. i had the same fears as you regarding wasting my life and decided it wasnt worth the hurt and ongoing dissapointment. i wish i had found this site whilst pregnant, it is good to know other people are in the same boat after feeling so lonly and ashamed about the situation for a long time

op tell him to check out bright eyes counselling forum, it is brilliant online support,lots of help and advice from others in the sameboat, plus an online counselling service.

Please be wary of aa. They are not doctors. If alcoholism is an illness, it should be treated by a doctor. AA has a very bad recovery rate; by their own estimation (George Valiant) it is 5% at most. Also you can never leave. Also, it may be rather tragic to be told that hot flushes and night flushes are to be expected and then, years later, finding out that I face osteoperosis in my fifties. That it should be treated immediately.

Have you ever heard of groupthink? It is a dangerous way of making bad decisions. AA ticks all the boxes, especially if you read their literature, and they only allow their own literature in meetings. Nothing else is allowed. How does that make sense?

Check out groupthink and aa's success rate.

Staggers - immensely misleading post. Have we run into each other before?

"They are not doctors." Correct - which is why they do not claim to be doctors, nor to be able to cure what is recognised as an incurable illness.

"If alcoholism is an illness, it should be treated by a doctor." Show me a doctor that has any effective treatment for alcoholism and I will visit him. No one does. You might as well consult a doctor over cot death. The best that doctors can do is to prescribe medicine that will make drinking alcohol unappealing. However, since alcoholism is primarily a mental illness, many addicts will therefore stop taking the medicine.

"AA has a very bad recovery rate; by their own estimation (George Valiant) it is 5% at most." Everyone has a very bad recovery rate on alcoholism. AA compares favourably to any non-AA treatment or to no treatment at all.

"Also you can never leave." Bollocks. You can leave when you like.

"Also, it may be rather tragic to be told that hot flushes and night flushes are to be expected and then, years later, finding out that I face osteoperosis in my fifties. That it should be treated immediately." Like you say, we are not doctors. Hot flushes ARE to be expected. That doesn't mean they are not also the symptoms of other illnesses. In the same way, a cough is to be expected if you work in a dusty room. It is also a symptom of many other illnesses.

"Have you ever heard of groupthink? It is a dangerous way of making bad decisions." It certainly is. Luckily, AA does not make any decisions per se and so this is hardly relevant. Each member pursues his or her own recovery as he or she sees fit.

"they only allow their own literature in meetings. Nothing else is allowed. How does that make sense?" I understand the Masons, the Church of England and Weightwatchers follow a similar principle - dangerous cults one and all ...

"Check out groupthink and aa's success rate." Yes, do. And check out Staggers's appearance on other threads and ask yourself what her motivation is?

Hi all,

Like some of you I am a mum with an alcoholic partner. After numerous attempts at AA and rehab I was starting to give up hope of my partner ever stopping drinking until we discovered a drug called neltrexone. It is an opiod suppressor used with heroin addicts and alcoholics. It has changed our lives and has given me a loving partner and our son a father. Here is the Times article with some more information.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5484285.ece

In the UK the NHS will only prescribe it to heroin addicts however you can speak to a private psychiatrist who is a specialist in drugs and alcohol who can prescribe it (We paid £300 for the initial consultation) or you can contact the Stapleford Centre www.staplefordcentre.com/ if you live near London.

My partner is following 'The Sinclair Method'

www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=11132

Neltrexone really does sound like it is too good to be true but in our experience it has been!

I have posted this message on a number of threads as I would like to reach as many people as possible

Good luck Lx

That's interesting! Here's the link to the Times article on Naltrexone.

Fascinating article.

Potential issues -

1. unlike rats, not all habitual human drinkers become alcoholics. How comparable are the two?

2. alcoholism in humans is recognised as being a mental illness as well as physical. Bluntly, what process ensures the alcoholic keeps taking the tablets, rather than just dropping them and hitting the drink hard when life gets hard (or, indeed, easy)?

3. fundamentally, most alcoholics I know, when they are honest, admit that they have no interest in being "normal" drinkers. What they would have liked, prior to AA, is to be able to drink shitloads and not have the consequences - and that is often before they recognised any "craving" in themselves - they thought they just liked drinking shitloads To me, that is what alcoholism means. This medicine, like most others in the same vein (antabuse, kudzu) cannot and does not claim to address this side of things. So is it a true cure, or is it just "preaching to the converted" who may well have got better without it, because they were ready to do so?

Your points are good, and I'm sure those are the questions that are keeping Naltrexone off "the list" at present. The logic makes a kind of sense, though. If you don't get the kicks, the appeal will be reduced surely? I drink 'normally' (ish) - thanks to rehab & AA, I learned that drinking didn't actually make as much difference as I'd supposed. Which, I assume, is what this drug also aims to achieve.

The slightly alarming answer to your first question is that rats are used in these experiments because rats' brain configuration is almost identical to ours!

I wish you could edit replies here.

MIFLAW, getting an addict to acknowledge their addiction is the hardest step, as you know. Once they've done it, the will to break it varies by individual - and according to their circumstances at the time. The woman in the interview was not in a situation where she felt the "need" to self-medicate so the Naltrexone provided her with a means to achieve what was right for her, in her particular life. Who knows whether she'd regress if things went horribly wrong for her?

I think I would. But ... once her brain has learned the new lesson: drink doesn't make me feel any better; maybe she wouldn't turn immediately to a bottle in times of stress? All of the protagonists said it's better to knock off the booze entirely - and that the objective of Naltrexone treatment is to eliminate drinking. Just going by the article, it sounds as though it's worth extended trials.

Dear Bemused Mum,

I am new here and, struggling somewhat with a step daughter situation, I clicked on 'relationships' as a starting point. The first post I saw was yours and it made me smile as this is a subject close to my heart.

I have been going to aa for years now and, for me, it was and is the answer. I could write all kinds of things here but I won't, I just wanted to know you are welcome to get in touch with me directly if you want to talk to someone who probably understands a bit what both of you might be feeling.

Charlotte
x

In reply to MIFLAW

I feel that your reply to my post is at best ignorant of the issues of alcolism (in point 3 you base opinions on the people you know?).

I do not claim to be an expert on alcoholism. We looked into all of the treatment options for alcoholism and were dismayed at the poor success rate of rehab or AA. I even attended Al-Anon as I had begun to accept that my partner's alcholism was always going to be a part of our life for ever. When we found Naltrexone (and I would challange you to find any research that does not support it's use with alcoholics when used with the Sinclair Mmethod) it did seem to be too good to be true as it went against everything that we had previously been told about alcoholism. Even when we initially went to see the psychiatrist he wanted to prescribe my partner diazepam (highly addictive!).

All I know is that Naltrexone works! My partner is going to carry on with drugs and alcohol counselling too as the research shows the combined use of naltrexone and CBT has the best longterm outcome.

I have an MA in mental health and know that labotomies were acceptable up until the 1060's until antipsychotic medications were introduced. I hope that opoid antagonists could start a similar breakthrough for the milions of people who's lives are torn apart by alcoholism.

lx

Lucy, MIFLAW is our beloved resident alcoholic so the "people he knows" runs into thousands of AA members

For completeness: I'm a practising alcoholic who's been lucky enough to receive great therapeutic treatment.

I tend to mistrust any treatments, of any kind, which claim to be the only one. Individuals vary so much. Surely there's a place for Naltrexone, Antabuse, AA, rehab; even weirdy-type specialist cures? They all work for some.

Hi Lucy,

I totally agree that treatment should be holistic and tailored to the individual's needs. My partner was willing to try anything to sober up! (he was even considering signing up to teen challange! www.tclondon.org.uk ).

Thanks for clearing up the MIFLAW issue . . .