Lying Husband - am I kidding myself to think he'll change?

[horriblediscovery]

DH and I have been together for just over 4 years, and over the course of our relationship there have been several situations in which I have strongly suspected that he wasn't being entirely honest with me.

I reasoned to myself that the things that he was lying about weren't major, and anyway, they were in the past. I had no proof of anything, just suspicions and circumstantial evidence.

I chose to give him the benefit of the doubt, and hoped that the fact that he knew that I was 'onto' him would act as a sort of shot across his bows and that he would stop doing it.

I recently caught him out in spectacular fashion in the most appalling lie I have ever seen/heard, and now realise how foolish I was to give that benefit of the doubt in the first place.

We have been to relate and it seemed to really shock him. The counsellor was horrified and DH was full of contrition.

He came home after the session, vomited, and then sobbed uncontrollably for several hours at the realisation of what he had done.

He has agreed to see a psychiatrist to try to change this behaviour and we are sticking with the Relate sessions together.

I said that if we were to move on from this, that he would need to explain to me fully all the situations that he has previously lied in. We've set a 'date' for tomorrow evening to go through this and I am absolutely dreading it. Part of me fears that he will not be entirely honest even now, and even if he is, I am frightened of what he is going to say.

He does understand that he has to change, but I am worried that he either won't be able to or that I will never be able to trust him again. He is just being normal around the house at the moment, and I'm really struggling to pretend that everything is ok.

I am thinking about perhaps moving out for a couple of days, but am concerned that this might be an aggressive move.

The weird thing is that there is plenty of good in our relationship. We have both said that this is the best relationship that either one of us has ever had, so I am reluctant to walk away without putting up a fight.

Can anybody offer some advice please? I am unable to think of anything else at the moment

It's difficult to advise you without knowing what your H lies about - and what the latest catalyst was about. In general, people are only capable of change is they "own" the problem and can identify an incentive to alter their behaviour. In human relationships, that incentive is usually the continuation of the relationship that has been threatened as a result of the behaviour.

Psychiatric help for lying has achieved good results for a lot of people, but there are all sorts of lies, as you well know. Lies of omission, lying to oneself, lies to save hurt, pointless lies, chronic lying about everything and pathological lying. It is unusual for people to lie about just one area of their lives - and occupations that are tolerant of lying provide a lifestyle vulnerability that can be difficult to shift.

i think it depends on if he wants to.
I am puzzled as to what could possibly be such a huge lie to make him vomit and sob (he must have put it out of his mind).
Is it the lie or the fact that you, and possibly others will find out about something??

I think as well you now know he is capable of lying and will have to give the choice back to him - tell him if he lies again you will be gone and stick to it.

tell us the lie

I do think that lying is a conditioned response in some adults - all young children lie instinctively and continually and perhaps for some people this continues into adulthood and lying is just their default "setting".

I'm sure we all know someone who is a compulsive lier, they can't seem to help it for the most part.

Thanks so much for your response WWIFN, well, in general the lies fall into the category of things that might make me think less of him. I think there is an element of NPD in this, as it seems that he can't bear for me (or anyone else) to see him in anything less than a perfect light.

This recent one, although in the same vein, was far far more serious. The nearest thing that I can equate it to was that old cliche where a man loses his job, can't face telling his wife, so continues to leave for 'work' every morning and sits on a park bench all day. I'm sorry to be so vague, but there are other people involved and I fear being outed or hurting them further (not an OW situation btw).

It was a long (years) and elaborate deception that he tells me just snowballed away from him. It started off with a small lie when we first met, but then he had to lie over and over again to prevent me from finding out the truth. The thing is, if he had told me the truth say 3 months into the relationship, I wouldn't have minded at all, it was the fact that he let it build to a very dramatic outcome that has completely shattered my life.

The thing that has really upset me was that there was a 100% certainty that I would find out on a given day. When that day came, he did a bunk and let me find out on my own and from the worst possible person. He is still lying to other people (DCs ) about this situation, and they too will find out one day. He keeps saying that he will tell them in his own time, but I fear that he won't and they will find out in the same way that I did.

I am seriously concerned about his mental state, we have had several comical discussions where I have said that I know that he's lying, and I am willing to forgive and forget, all he has to do is explain the situation fully to me. He just sits there and maintains that he is telling the truth and that I am imagining things. We just hit an impasse.

I am hoping that it will all come out tomorrow during our 'chat' but knowing his previous 'admit nothing' strategy, I am not hopeful.

Oh sorry, lots of cross posts.

I'm so sorry, but I can't say what it is - it is such a fucking bizarre unusual situation that I'm worried that someone will recognise the facts.

DH and I cooked up an equally bizarre cover up story and I really don't want the whole thing to unravel.

Makes me no better than him to be honest. Honestly, what a mess.

well its not wokable like this is it?

you're involved with lying to people too....why? its gone too far and you need to either remove yourself from this situation,and hhim......or confess all to everyone involved.

thats my opinion anyway

Get out now.
You are allowing him to continue - why on earth are you getting involved.

It sounds either really serious - in which case you will get into trouble or so stupid that people probaly know it is all bullshit anyway and are just too polite to say anything.

Either way you are not going to look good.

Lying to DC - why especially if they are going to find out anyway????

Sorry this sounds weird and until someone - YOU finally stand up to him he will continue and probably 'blame' you for 'making' him do it.

If your kids are going to find out sometime, why can't you both tell them now? Do you know when (how soon) they are going to find out? Sure they would rather have one liar as a parent than two.

Sounds completely bizarre, is it something about him, or something he's done (thinking long prison sentence or something) that the press would get hold of? Because that would be dreadful for kids and much better to hear it from him.

why are you protecting him ?

when it all comes out (whatever it is), you will look as sneaky and foolish as he does

so...you are also lying to your chidren

I am sorry, I am finding it difficult to have any sympathy for you...this is too bizarre for words and you sound just as bed as him

this situation also sounds familiar...have you posted it before ? What replies did you get then ?

Oh god, this is all too familiar to me. This is a very interesting book & I recommend it wholeheartedly.

as bad as him

Oh God get out now.

You shouldn't be drawn into the lies and have to keep them up for him

Whatever it was, he has lied about it to you for your whole relationship, that is very bad news imo.

you asked if he would change.

Well he isnt going to is he - and he wants you to protect and lie for him too.

It is hard to admit that you are a liar - my h had to do just that and actually the only way i think i believed him was because he was willing to sacrifice everything and be totally honest with EVERYONE.

Someone that is willing to lie to their dc i dont think can be trusted.

Wash your hands of him.

He is roping you into his madness. How can you talk about the lying ending and in the next breath talk about cover stories and continuing the lies to the kids?

He's a fantasist. A pathological liar. He won't change without extensive psychological help. Sorry, sounds awful.

Echoing what the others say. something not right - definately get more help with this. When you say you are concerned about his mental state, is it worth speaking to his GP to rule out any organic cause for his behaviour ?

Of course he won't change, if you are going to cover his tracks for him.

Where's his motivation?

It sounds like a life-shattering lie and I don't see how you can possibly move on if you're already being drawn into the lies yourself.

Get out, move on.

I once dated a serious liar. I honestly don't think he could help it, I think he had some kind of mental health issue because he pretty much believed his own lies. But it was pretty awful to live with, things going wrong time and time again and having to cover up or get him out of trouble, distancing myself from friends and family because I didn;t dare tell them anything about anything.
AFAIK this bloke hasn't changed, 20 years down the line (he certainly sounded much the same 6 years ago when I last spoke to him, though I have usually managed to stay out of his way since dumping him). Yours won't either. DOn't collude with his lies to your DC, work out the facts and give them the most benign version you can.
I am guessing your H has fathered a child with someone else, if it's than then you would be best off ending the relationship with him and (if remotely possible) working out a way to manage your DC's relationship with their half-sibling.

It's the knowing the OP would find out on a particular day part that is mystifying me. 1) Why? 2) what is wrong with him? Surely the whole point of lying is that you hope people won't find out ever. If you know they're going to find out, and when, you are just setting yourself up to be seen as an utter twat.

Does he have another child?

I lie a lot. Mostly, I embellish true stories to make them more tell-able, iykwim. Sometimes I tell a passed-on story to make it seem like it happened to a friend of mine (rather than a friend-three-times-removed). I've been known to lie about how long a meeting took (I went shopping), how much the shoes cost (hah) and even whether I bought any shoes. I used to work in advertising, where lying is was considered a requirement. All this, more or less, as WWIFN described and, more or less, as most people do.

More than once, I left a job because I refused to lie as hugely as instructed. I'm by no means the only person to have done so. Colleagues not only picked up the untold lies and ran with them, they were promoted on their ability. I loved the business, but it is was a hive of Walter Mittys! Those Mittys lied to their wives, lied to their PAs who were lying to their wives for them, and lied to the girls they lied to their PAs about. They also lied to their bankers, backers, creditors, parents, brothers & sisters and their children. They just did. I married one of them, but that's my story not yours.

One night, a close friend of mine (who was a better-paid, bigger liar than me) had a meltdown in the Ladies. She couldn't stop crying, she was sick, she lost her legs. I thought she'd done too much coke but it was something far more important. She'd got fed up with "being" a lie.

She left the business and changed her friends. But. She didn't stop lying. She adopted a new profession, which leans more towards "bullshit" and less towards lies. In my opinion, she still can't tell the difference between the truth and something sort-of-like the truth. She saved herself, but she didn't discover the value of honesty: not by a long chalk.

I think this is what you need to watch out for. I really don't envy your position, but I understand your wish to try & see this through. To be honest (!) I think you could do with a counsellor of your own, to act as a "truth mirror" for you while you battle it out.

Good luck.

If the lie is that bad, why are you trying to collude with it?

Either choose to forgive him and brass it out, or leave.

I can only assume it is a major criminal act, from what you've posted.