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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am desperate for opinions/advice- don't know what to do. DP says my nagging is making him very very unhappy.

79 replies

wheresmypaddle · 17/03/2010 14:57

I have been brave and not namechanged.

DP & and I have been together 6 years. We have an almost 3yo son. I work PT, currently 3 days. DP works strange hours-he is a sportsman so he competes and teaches people. Its a job he loves, but the money is poor. However, I support him in his job because I think he is lucky to love his work- despite the fact that at times money has been very short. He works hard but not quite full time hours and works weekends.

He has had an intermittent gambling problem over the past few years. Finally, just before Christmas he admitted the extent of the problem. He seems to be trying really hard to sort this problem- he has arranged payment plans to deal with his debts, closed his credit cards down, attends GA weekly and has admitted his problem to some close friends. Due to the gambling and his low wage I bring in about 75% of our household income. I am proud that he is facing his demons.

We have had ups and downs including a 9mth break when DS was about 13months. This was precipated by a long period of me having enough of feeling like I was doing everything and him ignoring what I thought was a clear need for more support with DS. Both of us found the transition to being new parents difficult, but while I struggled on, he withdrew and spent a lot of time with friends and playing sport. It came to a head when after 6 evenings in on my own he broke one of many promises to bath DS- I called him begging for a break and he told me he would come home when he was ready- I saw red and bundled DS up and wheeled him in the pram to DP's friends and left him with DP while I went to visit a friend. I guess it sounds drastic to do that but I really needed some help. That evening we had a huge row, I told him that if he didn't help more he would have to leave, which he did. He was very upset but just walked out. He lived with friends for 12 months, the first 3 he was on his own, then he met OW, they split after 3 months. Then a few weeks later he announced he wanted to come back home and for us to try again. I needed to be convinced he was willing to change so after 6 months of him being much more supportive I agreed to him moving back in.

Fast forward to now, our relationship has been better (I thought), it has been great to have him back and to be a family again. There has been some improvement on the helping out front, particularly with DS but in the main I still feel I do too much- all shopping, cooking, cleaning, majority of childcare (he has DS all day Mon, and plays with him in the eves), I make all arrangements for childcare, and run DS around, make sure all bills are paid etc etc.. I just feel like I take responsibility for everything by 'default'. Any requests from me to help are seen by DP as "ordering him about".

I have not made a huge deal of the situation because there are things I love about him very much and am aware noone is perfect, also I constantly feel guilty that I cannot manage everything by myself so I try to manage it all as much as possible.

Yesterday I asked him to take DS to mums this morning (she looks after him on a Wednesday). He had the morning off and has never done this before but it meant I could leave home at 8.30 rather than 7.15 and would have been a huge help to me. Initially he agreed (suprisingly readily) but this morning accused me of ordering him about constantly, to the point that he was very unhappy. He suggested I had a "good long think" about the way I am with him. He also said he had not been happy for some time due to my nagging, ordering and not having sex enough. I admit that sex has been infrequent but I am often tired, feel unsupported and resentful of not being helped enough.

I feel so upset but also suprisingly angry (I dont get angry very often). I missed him terribly when he left and so wanted this to work but I feel like I have had a kick in the teeth and am stuck between a rock and a hard place- if I continue to ask (nag) for help we will continue to disagree which is horrible for all concerned, if I stop asking I will feel more and more unhappy and unsupported.

Its feels like all my efforts and hard work have gone unnoticed- funnily enough he says the same??!!

Sorry to have rambled on and on, just wanted to try to give a full picture of the situation. Can anyone give me their opinions/ advice bearing in mind I was really hoping we could make it as a family......................

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 17/03/2010 21:10

sungirl...I see your point

but then you know of many grown-up children of dysfunctional marriages (I am one of them) who wish their parents had split up, to save them from years of unhappiness

and these children do not thank their parents for staying together for "the children's sake"

I actually lost respect for my mother many, many years ago...for putting up with bad treatment and not finding the self-respect to be a better role model for a growing, impressionable young girl like I used to be

and no, I wouldn't do it myself...not for anyone, not even my kids

there are more ways to make a family...this isn't the 1950's where women have to put up and shut up

it just seems like that, sometimes

PassMeTheKleenex · 17/03/2010 21:14

This has been said above, so without wishing to repeat it all - you seem to be involved with a teenager who thinks he has a right to do whatever he likes without participating in boring, adult activities.

I honestly can't imagine that life could get much worse for you without him - in fact, if he did leave, you would probably get more free time as your DS would have properly arranged access visits, leaving you to do something fun!

I appreicate that relationships add a dimension to life that being on your own doesn't necessarily deliver - but are you really getting that benefit? It's like you're treading on egg shells not to upset him, so he won't leave you - but being on your own is not necessarily being alone. And by staying with this boorish, selfish, kid, you are stopping yourself from meeting a true partner.

Get out now before you find yourself 10 years down the line, having paid off his gambling debts/funded his 'lovely job' - and then he sods off and leaves you anyway.

Sorry to be pessimistic, but the definition of madness is doing the same thing & expecting a different outcome...

wheresmypaddle · 17/03/2010 21:17

Sungirltan and Soupdela thanks for making me feel a little less useless for not wanting to end things, I do feel ashamed that I haven't finished our relationship because I know so many well meaning people would quite rightly feel that maybe I should.

I wish I could understand why I have created this "mother/child" dynamic between us- another thing to feel guilty about!!

OP posts:
sungirltan · 17/03/2010 21:19

af - i know, i know...its just that the knowledge of the op and another poster that if they kick out the knob head dps that their dc's pretty much will lose them made me so sad.

also ime the dc spends years fantasing about how amazing the absent parent must be and then they have to go through all the dissapointment and the mum has to go through all the heartache again.

thatsnotmymonkey · 17/03/2010 21:23

but the mother parent dynamic is not wholly your making!! It is not all your fault. He has to take some responsibility for all of this.

I really feel for you. Tis shit shit shit.

wheresmypaddle · 17/03/2010 21:25

Suntangirl I just wanted to say that I don't think I have said that if DP and I were to split up DS would loose contact with his father. I don't think that. DP spent time with DS almost every day for the time we split up, I know he really really missed him. I feel confident that he adores DS and would not loose contact with him.

OP posts:
sungirltan · 17/03/2010 21:33

sorry wheresmypaddle - was just another poster - will read back

SpringHeeledJack · 17/03/2010 21:35

this is where love=someone holding a gun to your head...he knows how much you care about him so he can more or less do as he pleases

thing that bothers me about this is, if you have a man who is entrenched in this position (if he contributes, he's "helping", if you ask for any further contribution, you're "nagging" ) I just can't see that you'll ever be able to change his pov. All the plans and charts in the world won't change him if he has chosen to call your current situation fair.

The only way I think you'll get him to actually see how unfair it is is to swap. But that's not really practical, is it?

I really wish you and ds luck...

wheresmypaddle · 17/03/2010 21:38

No worries. He is a plonker as so many people have pointed out so not sure why I am bothering to defend him!! Just wanted to set that one straight.....

OP posts:
wheresmypaddle · 17/03/2010 21:46

Springheeled what I can't understand (I know people on this thread have told me its pointless to try, but its hard not to) is why he has this POV. Not one person on here has defended him at all- why does he have such a warped sense of fairness .

Does selfishness come with a unrealistic view of reality??!!

OP posts:
tootootired · 17/03/2010 21:46

It sounds like he has low self esteem and is touchy and defensive. A lot of men are so emotionally illiterate they can't get out of that anger. The big question is does he have the capacity/inclination to understand where you are coming from/where he is at, or not? Maybe yes if he has made progress on the gambling.

It would be a shame to split up your family if there is a chance.

If you are going to have a long talk then do it properly. Both listen to the other person for a time without interrupting and try to see where the common ground is. It might be your last opportunity.

If you want to make it work it sounds like you need help to understand the dynamics of your relationship, restore the balance of power and acknowledge the difficulties. Something like the Marriage Course (is that still going?) or I guess Relate. Really there are people who have the best intentions to change but need help to put the strategies in place to do it.

BelleDameSansMerci · 17/03/2010 21:47

Nagging? Hmmm... In my opinion people nag because the person on the receiving end hasn't done what was required when it was required and thus needs reminding!

Honestly, I know you don't want to hear this, but I can't see that you're getting anything out of this but a lot of hard work and misery.

He's behaving like a spoiled child.

AnyFucker · 17/03/2010 21:48

have a look at this thread, especially the last few posts if you need any more convincing that staying with a dickhead for the sake of the children is not the best thing to do...

Eurostar · 17/03/2010 21:49

"some people manage to make a decent living out of the job, but this relies on playing well which sometimes does not happen".

So perhaps he is living a fantasy that he can continue with what he loves? "It does not happen" because he is just not as talented as some others?

Watch out that in 10 years you are not being blamed for his lack of success - or, if he does find more success, that he doesn't then get a trophy wife to go along with it.

SpringHeeledJack · 17/03/2010 21:53

fwiw- I'm willing to bet that behind most men who are like this (and I bet also that your dp isn't unusual) there's a FIL who is exactly the same (same sense of entitlement, same indignation re "helping")- and also a MIL who has waited on her dss and dp hand and foot- possibly to avoid confrontation- "it's quicker/easier to do it myself"

make sure your ds sees you- together- as a partnership. Otherwise it's likely that your future DIL will suffer just like you are now!

westender · 17/03/2010 22:27

Wheresmypaddle - You really shouldn't feel "useless" for not ending the relationship and please don't feel "ashamed" for staying.

It's very easy for other people to tell you what to do. It sounds very easy to say leave, walk out, throw him out, stand up for yourself.... It's another thing entirely to live with the reality of what that would mean.

I think your reasons for staying have been a bit ignored by posters here.

Loving your dp, loving the time that you, he and your ds have together, family occasions, his sense of fun, he's fun and good with ds, the social life you and he have through his work. It's all really important stuff, and it's a lot to give up.

All relationships are a compromise, a give and take. You get some of the things you need from someone, you never get it all, and if you think that you will I think you will alwasys be disappointed by whoever you meet. So it comes to a question of how much you are prepared to compromise, and no one else can tell you the answer to that as it will be very different for every individual.

(To be honest, though, for me the killer part of what you ahve described would be the gambling. It sounds like a persistant problem, an addiction, and i would want to be 100% clear that he was no longer gambling.)

AnyFucker · 17/03/2010 22:33

that is a very kind post, westender

but you still said what everyone else on this thread said

MmeLindt · 18/03/2010 12:20

Reading back on the whole thread, Wheresmypaddle, one thing struck me. You mention several times that you love him and don't want to leave, that your family unit is important. You stress this point, the family.

It seems to me that you are concentrating to much on being a family unit - Mummy, Daddy, Child - that you have lost track of the fact that you are not a unit. You and your DS are a unit. Your DP is not really with you. He is not committed to you, and not willing to change his behaviour to strengthen your family.

wheresmypaddle · 18/03/2010 12:45

Thank you for taking the time to read the thread Mmelindt. Its a sad situation that to an independent person my precious 'family unit' is not what I thought.

I am so grateful for the feedback from everyone but if I am honest I am feel really sad that so many people think I should finish our relationship, that there is no point trying to improve things.

I guess maybe I am finding it really hard to face up to the fact that things are so bad that we should go our seperate ways .

There are good things about our relationship, and things that have improved since our last split. When I woke up this morning I wondered if I had painted an unfairly bad picture of DP in my original post- all of it is true and fair but maybe I have missed some of the positive stuff.

I had hoped to find a way to get through this, its so many people think I should throw him out.

I am listening to all your advice though- thank you again.

OP posts:
wheresmypaddle · 18/03/2010 12:46

Sorry- I should have said "feeling really sad" not "feel really sad".

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 18/03/2010 12:56

It's not 'helping out' it's doing one's fair share.

And I really and truely hope all that debt he racked up gambling is not in your name, too.

Bet the OW threw him out, too.

AxisofEvil · 18/03/2010 12:59

OP - of course he has his good points. If he didn't you'd have left him years ago. The question is whether the good points are enough to overook all the bad points.

wheresmypaddle · 18/03/2010 13:03

No expatinscotland the debt is all in his name. Even if he fails to make the repayments that he has agreed only he will suffer.

He left OW, realised he should have tried harder to work things out with me. Obviously thats his version of the story but given the contact she made after they split, I think its accurate.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 18/03/2010 13:13

Well, coming back to 'try harder' with you and then telling you he's unhappy because you 'nag' him says it all really.

MmeLindt · 18/03/2010 13:29

I did not mean to make you sad, Wheresmypaddle and I am sorry that I have done so.

Only you can make the decision if your relationship is worth saving. The opinion of anonymous posters on MN is worth nothing if you and your DP decide to make another go of it.

Don't forget that we are just getting a very one dimensional picture of your DP. I am sure that he has his good sides, otherwise you would not be with him.

But do ensure that you see him as he is and not as you would like him to be.

If he is willing to make the effort, then give him and yourself the time to come back together and really strengthen your relationship.

Why don't you give yourself an ultimatum. Say until July or August. Put a note in your diary to come back and reread this thread in a couple of months and then honestly answer these questions:

Have things changed? Am I happier? Is he happier?