Am desperate for opinions/advice- don't know what to do. DP says my nagging is making him very very unhappy.

[wheresmypaddle]

I have been brave and not namechanged.

DP & and I have been together 6 years. We have an almost 3yo son. I work PT, currently 3 days. DP works strange hours-he is a sportsman so he competes and teaches people. Its a job he loves, but the money is poor. However, I support him in his job because I think he is lucky to love his work- despite the fact that at times money has been very short. He works hard but not quite full time hours and works weekends.

He has had an intermittent gambling problem over the past few years. Finally, just before Christmas he admitted the extent of the problem. He seems to be trying really hard to sort this problem- he has arranged payment plans to deal with his debts, closed his credit cards down, attends GA weekly and has admitted his problem to some close friends. Due to the gambling and his low wage I bring in about 75% of our household income. I am proud that he is facing his demons.

We have had ups and downs including a 9mth break when DS was about 13months. This was precipated by a long period of me having enough of feeling like I was doing everything and him ignoring what I thought was a clear need for more support with DS. Both of us found the transition to being new parents difficult, but while I struggled on, he withdrew and spent a lot of time with friends and playing sport. It came to a head when after 6 evenings in on my own he broke one of many promises to bath DS- I called him begging for a break and he told me he would come home when he was ready- I saw red and bundled DS up and wheeled him in the pram to DP's friends and left him with DP while I went to visit a friend. I guess it sounds drastic to do that but I really needed some help. That evening we had a huge row, I told him that if he didn't help more he would have to leave, which he did. He was very upset but just walked out. He lived with friends for 12 months, the first 3 he was on his own, then he met OW, they split after 3 months. Then a few weeks later he announced he wanted to come back home and for us to try again. I needed to be convinced he was willing to change so after 6 months of him being much more supportive I agreed to him moving back in.

Fast forward to now, our relationship has been better (I thought), it has been great to have him back and to be a family again. There has been some improvement on the helping out front, particularly with DS but in the main I still feel I do too much- all shopping, cooking, cleaning, majority of childcare (he has DS all day Mon, and plays with him in the eves), I make all arrangements for childcare, and run DS around, make sure all bills are paid etc etc.. I just feel like I take responsibility for everything by 'default'. Any requests from me to help are seen by DP as "ordering him about".

I have not made a huge deal of the situation because there are things I love about him very much and am aware noone is perfect, also I constantly feel guilty that I cannot manage everything by myself so I try to manage it all as much as possible.

Yesterday I asked him to take DS to mums this morning (she looks after him on a Wednesday). He had the morning off and has never done this before but it meant I could leave home at 8.30 rather than 7.15 and would have been a huge help to me. Initially he agreed (suprisingly readily) but this morning accused me of ordering him about constantly, to the point that he was very unhappy. He suggested I had a "good long think" about the way I am with him. He also said he had not been happy for some time due to my nagging, ordering and not having sex enough. I admit that sex has been infrequent but I am often tired, feel unsupported and resentful of not being helped enough.

I feel so upset but also suprisingly angry (I dont get angry very often). I missed him terribly when he left and so wanted this to work but I feel like I have had a kick in the teeth and am stuck between a rock and a hard place- if I continue to ask (nag) for help we will continue to disagree which is horrible for all concerned, if I stop asking I will feel more and more unhappy and unsupported.

Its feels like all my efforts and hard work have gone unnoticed- funnily enough he says the same??!!

Sorry to have rambled on and on, just wanted to try to give a full picture of the situation. Can anyone give me their opinions/ advice bearing in mind I was really hoping we could make it as a family......................

I'd agree with the 'tell him to fuck right off' opinion, but I can see thats easier said than done and I can understand your wanting to make 100% sure that you have given him all the chances to step up and make this work before kicking him out for good.
Bearing that in mind I would do the following. Tell him calmly that you have done as he said and have had a 'good long think' about things. Tel him that you can see he is not happy and that you are also not happy as things stand but do want to work it through.
Say you will do your part at working things out by stopping the 'nagging' and will not request anything specifically in terms of support in the next 3 months. In turn you will expect him to work just as hard at the relationship and to offer as much support to you and the household as he is able to/willing to.
IF at the end of the 3 months things are going well and you are BOTH happy, then fine. If on the other hand, you have not nagged him at all and he has simply done bugger all and been a lazy arse (which I'm sorry, but this is the way I think it might go), then you are kicking him out... for good.
And you should do it. You WILL be better off without him if he really cant be bothered to put ANY effort in to make you happy when he is getting so much effort from you.
You will find someone better, and until you do, you will be fine with just DS. As he gets older things will be easier and easier and you will manage better, promise!

He came back because he presumably wanted to come back.
he has behaved exactly as he did before he left, and has no intention of changing - apparantly.

he won't change by magic - there is no ppint in saying 'why can't he see...why doesn't he understand?' - he is self-absorbed and is blaming you for his own failures.

You could seek counselling on your own, to develop some assertiveness, and help work out a plan to tackle him and effect change. Maybe say yes, you are right, you do nag him, so can the 2 of you work out a regular system of chores so that each know what you can delegate, and when your fre time will be...starting off with a complete list of all the chores and responsibility that need doing every day might be a starting point, and demonstrate how much you do do.

Otherwise, just get rid. He is taking far more than he is giving, and realy, being afraid to be alone is no reason to keep someone who saps your energy, your money and your self-estem.

Also, being a single parent of a 3 yo is very different to being a single parent of a 13 mth old baby.

I do understand how you feel - although I am not in your situation. How did you react to him when he left? Where you the upset woman who tried to do everything to get him back? Where the cards all his?

I just wonder if you toughened up and told him that you wanted him to leave for a while how he would react. Perhaps you need to take some control - what do you have to lose? Tell him to go, tell him why and tell him what he has to do to make the relationship work. Do not tell him you love him desparately etc - be unemotional ( cry later). Even if he says he can change etc etc tell him he has to go for a while. If he just goes - well sorry, but that says a lot.

Never beg him to return, never let him see you are upset. Let him believe that you are getting on with your life because it's better without him. He will either realise that he loves you and will be willing to change or....

He came back as well because no-one else would have him around. Also he has a cushy life with you mainly running the show.

I personally think he has had more than enough chances with you; he has and continues to screw up your family life. He is no ideal role model for your son is he?.
He is still taking no real responsibility for his actions but is apt to blame you instead by accusing you of nagging.

What are you both teaching your son about relationships?. That needs due consideration here too.

You've enabled your partner and this entire situation of his making for long enough - time to let this untenable relationship go.

You could and have given him more than enough opportunity to step up and he is clearly still not doing so.

His ongoing gambling problem would be a deal breaker; he is still not taking full responsibility and is happy to let you get on with it. You're just carrying him now, would suggest you read about co-dependency and enabling.

if you are in the situation where you are frightened to tell him to fuck off, because he actually would, without a backward glance...then you are in a very bad position

I agree with the previous posts...am realy not sure what you are getting out of this relationship

financial security ? ..err, no

respect ? ..nope

a shared sense of responsibilty for nurturing the family unit? ..wrong again

being treated as a domestic appliance...bingo

tell him to go...and stay away this time, until he wants to put in equal effort

because if it is only you that does everything, wants things to change (and what incentive does he have to change ?), then you are fighting a losing battle

Hate the term 'nagging.'

Essentially it means, 'I don't want to listen to what you're saying because it's critical of me...'

Ask him to define 'nagging' and see if you can try and get him to actually articulate what he means...

It could be that he doesn't like to be reminded of how he has failed, which is infinitely different than you reminding him to do something even though he is constantly forgetting...

"I support him in his job because I think he is lucky to love his work"

He is a very lucky man to have you do this and if he can't appreciate it and mutually support you then why should you continue to do so?

How about his contemporaries? How do they manage? Or do most people drop out and get "real" jobs as they get older?

Po

Don't take this the wrong way wheresmypaddle but you sound increadibly needy and a pushover who is being taken for a ride. Why oh why do you feel grateful for the things he does, like some needy pathetic downtrodden wifey from the 40s?

It is not this man in particular who you are clinging on to, it is the concept of what a man could provide for you, and the concept of what a happy family unit could be.

You need to change your way of thinking and viewing life, and start by not being grateful when he does what he bloody well aut to do in a relatinship.

Grrrrrrr I am angry on your behalf.

A partnership is meant to enhance your life, not take away from it.

and you're scared that he would actually fuck off without a backward glance if you told him to, why do you want to be with a man who you think would leave, just like that? Why do you have to little self-worth and respect for yourself?

Oh love, there is so much in your words that illuminates the true situation here.

What most women would regard as normal "jobs to be done" - you describe as "helping you" or "helping out" - bathing his son and doing domestic chores isn't helping you at all.

Telling you to "have a long think" is patronising and arrogant in the extreme.

What you've replicated here is a mother-child relationship, almost to the letter. You're paying for his lifestyle, his career choices, his gambling, his fun - and in exchange, you've got a life filled with work, domestic drudgery, money worries galore and evenings in on your own. When do you get to have fun?

And to boot, he expects regular sex when quite frankly, I'd rather hit him with a frying pan than lie down with this man-child.

He wasted no time finding an OW during your break - no doubt looking for another woman to mother him and give him sex on tap. Wonder why that relationship went south - I'd lay bets it's because the woman realised this man was going to be an absolute drain.

Get some counselling - but not with him, go on your own. Work out how you facilitated a mother-child relationship when presumably you'd have preferred an equal partnership with a responsible adult. What I can tell you is that in relationships where joint responsibility is taken for everything, there is no "nagging" - it's unnecessary.

Once you get to the root of all this with a counsellor, you won't make the same mistake twice and when you're in a relationship with a proper adult, you'll look back and wonder why on earth you put up with this for so long.

Hi wheresmypaddle, I am in a very similar situation but more years down the line - we have been together 12 years and DS is 10 and I could never decide what to do for the best so have somehow carried on but with things going downhill a bit more each year. I am suprised at some of the responses to your posts, people don't seem to set much store by your affection for your DP and how important that is and not something that can be ended easily. Trouble is, if my experience is anything to go by it's never going to get better because it's impossible to get through to someone who can take that much advantage and feel no guilt. My DP uses exactly the same excuse ie that he can't stand 'being told what to do'. In the end I have stayed purely because I know DS would be devasted to lose his dad and I am taking the chance that when he grows up that will turn out to have been the right move.

whenwillifeelnormal - agree, i had 'transactional analysis parent child relationship' rining alarm bells in my head before i had even read the whole original post.

meanwhile i'm sorry for you, op because dp is not bloody well pulling his weight.

only thing i can suggest is that you find some way of empowering yourself aside from your relationship with dp.

soup, please explain something for me ...

why would your DS "lose" his dad if you were to split ?

just because you don't live in the same house, does not mean you cannot still parent a child

and 2 happy parents not under the same roof is better to me than 2 unhappy parents who stay together "for the sake of the children"

AF - I think my DP is the type who would if we split would just gradually not bother to make the effort to keep in touch with DS and would take the inevitable fact that DS would want to stay with me as a sign that DS was 'siding' with me and didn't need him. This is a personal thing based on my own experience of DP and not an opinion about all separated parents. About the 2 happy parents etc - usually i would agree, just not in my situ.

ok, soup, you know your own situation of course

however, if that is the kind of man he is....< trails away without stating the obvious...>

Well, yes, and yet...as op said, you can't just erase the good memories. Once upon a time we were kinder, more loving people and I still can't quite believe that we're not still in there somewhere.

sadly though af, given the choice, pretty much all children will choose their parents staying together, even if the arguments are almost unbearable, than them separating. sadder still, if one parent leaves, children spend an average of 5 years being optimistic that they will eventually return (all discovered through social work/child psychology journal papers whilst writing a depressing paper about divorce last year). i kind of admire the women who will stick it out even if they are miserable. i'm not sure i could.

wheresmypaddle what exactly is this relationship giving you? I just don't get it! Everybody wants a companion and wants to be loved. However that is not reason enough to put up with this bullshit. What sort of example are you setting your DS?

He sounds totally self absorbed and he will continue to be so unless you stand up to his bullying, manipulative behaviour. He needs you. Show him that.

I would read him the riot act and have him out of the house in a shot.

Thank you everyone for your responses- to answer a few questions: shineoncrazydiamond I would be kidding myself if I was positive he has stopped gambling, however I am as confident as I can be that he has stopped and has put measures in place to beat it. Maybe I have been too understanding but it seems like an illness and he is sorry and ashamed for what he has done. It seemed wrong to throw him out when he needs some support and was determined to stop.

Atilla I will look into codependancy and enabling. I take your point about being mindful of what this is teaching DS about relationships- I thought he was a great father but can see that there are things about him that are a poor role model for DS. That makes me really .

Eurostar he has plenty of older contemporaries- some people manage to make a decent living out of the job, but this relies on playing well which sometimes does not happen.

Ouch at being called needy, a pushover, 50s wife , having no self-worth and no respect for myself but guess those who have said this have a point. This may sound crazy but I think that in some areas of my life I am a strong and determined person- though not in terms of standing up to DP clearly!!

I have just tried my best to do the right thing but totally messed up and created a horrible situation as whenwillifeelnormal says- allowing him to take advantage. I know now I should not have let this happen but I wasn't conscious that I was doing it.

Ending things seems like a huge step, and makes me feel very very sad. I know loads of people think I must be crazy not to want to end our relationship but I do still love him, I love spending time with DS together, things like Christmas, birthdays etc seem so special when we are all together. I don't mean to offend anyone who has a happy relationship with a new DP/DH but although I realise another man could make me happier in some ways- I feel we would never be the same as DSs Mummy and Daddy, that feels important to me (and I come with plenty of experience of both lovely and terrible step-parents).

Really appreciate the comments- my brain is buzzing with thoughts.....

Hey sungirl - finally some support for the stickers! Gotta go but really interested to read your post.

I think you need to let him know you wont put up with this any more. Sit down and draw up a contract. If he wont do that for you, then....well I think you know what I am about to say!