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Original poster

Meeting a good friend who's just said that her boyfriend of 6 months has said that he never wants children. How do I advise her?

63 replies

ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 12:16

I'm meeting a good school friend for lunch, so thinking quickly about what to say. She's absolutely wonderful and what I would call excellent mother material, kind and sensitive, and I've always pictured her having children.

My instant reaction to her asking what to do about her bloke's revelation is that she shouldn't decide never to have a family just to keep him. I want to say that you'll love your children more than any partner, so downtrade if necessary the boyfriend and have children because they'll be even better. I can't say this because it sounds tactless and judgemental, and too self-centred just because that's how I feel about my life.

What would you say to her?

Just popping off to have shower, but really would love to come back to some good advice

OP posts:
shonaspurtle · 13/03/2010 16:47

I agree, easier after 6 months to make the break rather than five years down the line when they're fully committed to each other and her fertility is on the decline anyway.

When dh's friend split up with his longterm girlfriend because he wasn't ready to settle down dh couldn't work out why I felt for her (she was, admittedly, a bit of a nightmare).

But she was 38, childless (the settling down issue that dh's friend didn't want to deal with yet) and starting over.

Dh's friend is now 40 with twin daughters from his marriage to his much younger subsequent partner. Don't know about his ex - I hope things have worked out for her. It's not an unommon story.

Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 19:36

Just an update on how it went with my friend...

I hadn't realised when I met her boyfriend that he's 44, so he's had plenty of time to make his mind up that he really doesn't want dcs. Apparently he says that he doesn't want to lose the freedom of being able to go out when he wants and do what he likes. At least he's being honest, as that sounds like a situation where he'd really resent giving in to pressure to have them.

My friend said that the thought of being without him scares her more than the thought of not having children, and so she won't leave him over it right now, but she's worried that might not feel like that in, say, nine years, by which time she might feel resentful of not having started a family, and of needing to start all over again in order to have one.

Another of our childless friends was there, and I really didn't feel I should share feeling that having a child is the best thing that's ever happened to me and it's made me happy in a way I never knew before I had dc, because it sounds like I'm saying they can't be happy or understand my new level of happiness. It would sound patronising I think. It's just tricky because she said she's never envisaged life without dcs in the future, even though she doesn't feel 'broody' in her words, now. I just have an inkling that not having dcs is such a big life decision that she may well not feel the same in ten years' time.

My conclusion is that I can't and shouldn't really sway her, and I just hope she decides what to do in good time. Thanks again for sharing your experiences. I wish she could read them!

OP posts:
skidoodle · 13/03/2010 19:49

She's been with him for six months and the thought of being without him scares her?

"he's never envisaged life without dcs in the future"

oh god, it's a fucking car crash

she is such an idiot.

LittleSilver · 13/03/2010 20:16

Umm, I would listen, rsther than advise.

But if pushed I would say don't expect him to change. That's just unfair.

Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 20:16

I know, that was my reaction too, but she did leave her previous boyfriend of ten years for him, so she's not a complete relationship newbie, she just really adores him

Honestly she's not an idiot, she's bright and lovely. She's very mathsy, and today she said that she was trying to work out logically why she would want children, and the reasons she came up with weren't really logical, so she didn't see them as that valid, e.g. she'd be looked after in her old age. I did say at that point that making you happy is a good reason, but how can you quantify that to someone who hasn't felt it?

OP posts:
Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 20:19

Sorry, crossed posts with you LittleSilver. My last post refers to the point skidoodle addressed.

Yes, listening is often the best way to let someone solve their dilemma.

OP posts:
shonaspurtle · 13/03/2010 20:24

I think also (going by how I felt in my early 30s) it's very, very difficult if not impossible to grasp how your fertility might drop in a few years and make it a fairly moot point whether you want children or not.

To be honest, I'm only really grasping that now that I'm 37 and struggling to conceive my second child.

She probably thinks she's got years in front of her to make this decision (and of course she may have).

A 44 year old is unlikely to change his mind about having children I would have thought thought so it probably is this relationship or children.

I wish her well.

skidoodle · 13/03/2010 20:25

Can she work out logically why she would want to be with this man?

Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 20:33

No idea how she's done that, skidoodle! Should have asked. She said she's never felt as right as being with him. That's not pure logic really, but will have to accept it.

Totally get your point, shonaspurtle. I think that's why I'm a bit more worked up about this than I might be, as for me, trying to have my second child has been a much bigger struggle than I might have considered before, even though I'm relatively young for these sorts of problems. She's a good friend and I would hate her to have trouble later on because I know it's agonising. Thanks for your kind thoughts.

OP posts:
Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 20:35

Best wishes for your ttc too.

OP posts:
teaandcakeplease · 13/03/2010 20:40

This bloke sounds my like my ex boss before children. Tried to talk me out of getting married and children He was in early forties and had very set views.

Should I ask his name?

I have a bad feeling about this and think this guy is not "the one" (hate that saying too). Perhaps after being in a relationship for 10 years with previous chap and 6 months with this one, she's scared of being left on the shelf and being alone.

I think you need to meet up more with her and listen etc but also share your thoughts if she asks, which she probably will.

Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 20:48

Ooh, I wonder teaandcake. He's in London. Can't say more! I hope I'll see her more, but do find it difficult to be moderate and not too evangelical in talking about motherhood. I don't want to lose my friends by saying it's the only important thing in life. She's got a satisfying career in a way that I don't find mine, so I can't really judge what she needs most in her life.

OP posts:
skidoodle · 13/03/2010 20:49

"She said she's never felt as right as being with him."

Well I hope that feeling lasts for her and she doesn't end up feeling like she's thrown her life away for something that didn't add up to much.

It's early days anyway, who knows how it will play out?

Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 20:51

Yes I wonder if that feeling will naturally be tempered when a feeling for dcs becomes stronger, and then what she should do will be more clear to her.

OP posts:
skidoodle · 13/03/2010 20:55

Or maybe her feeling for children will fade if she's very happy with him and starts to imagine a childless future in which she's happy and fulfilled.

teaandcakeplease · 13/03/2010 20:55

Maybe. But it's easier to end it after 6 months as everyone says, than however many years later.

I think you're being very good, if it was my pal, I'd not be able to resist putting in my two pennies worth I wouldn't want her to regret this choice down the line...

Original poster
ooosabeauta · 13/03/2010 21:04

Yes skidoodle, I think that's her take on it. She doesn't think she'll ever meet anyone she likes as much as this one. When I think about it too much it seems like a miracle that so many of us do find 'the one' who shares our life view and it works well. Although I think being a family man was part of what makes my dh 'the one'. How many times can I use that naff phrase in one post?

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 13/03/2010 22:03

skidoodle - I quite clearly meant IF she used that statement as an ultimatum - in other words, IF she tried to use it to get him to change his mind.

Obviously if she decides having DC are more important and MEANS it, then it would become a statement of fact; I really can't see why you felt the need to call me on that post.

Ooosabeauta - just another e.g. for you - I have very good friends who have been together for over 20 years, married for 15. He never wanted DC, she always said she never wanted DC - and then a couple of years ago she accidentally fell pg but MC'd very early. At that point her hormonal clock went crazy and she started wishing she could have DC before it was too late. Her DH still doesn't want them but is so lovely he would consider having one if that was what SHE really wanted one. They are both in their 40s and so far nothing has happened, so they may have left it too late anyway but my friend is suffering periodically from disappointment that might get more serious as she gets older and it looks more and more unlikely that she will succeed.

As forlogically trying to work out why she wants DC, that's loony. Emotions defy all logic.

skidoodle · 13/03/2010 22:49

thumbwitch I wasn't calling you out, I was saying that it doesn't really matter whether she means it as an ultimatum or not, as long as she says it and means it and backs it up with action.

If she's secretly hoping he'll change his mind, what harm?

Either he doesn't (most likely) but the hope that he might helps her to do what she needs to do, or he does (very unlikely) and then she has to figure out whether she can trust it.

moaningminniewhingesagain · 13/03/2010 23:09

My DH was 39 when we starting seeing each other. I was 26 and already broody. When we talked about children he said he had never imagined having any, didn't particulary want them.

He didn't 'not want' them, had just never really considered it(even though he had been married in early 20's and they never had a family)

We had DD as soon as we got married and started TTC for the second at his suggestion when she was 12mo, now got DS also.

He was happy to have the children once he was ready and thought about it, it was a dealbreaker for me TBH and he knew that. So not neccessarily hopeless but I was realistic - asked him to think about it and decide.

And I would have broken it off if he was adamant he didn't ever want any, it's not really something you can compromise on.

I would also just be ready to listen, would answer any specific questions of course but not neccessarily try to fly the flag for having children, lots of people are happy without children whether through choice or circumstance.

thumbwitch · 13/03/2010 23:09

Ok, it didn't quite come across like that to me but hey, I'm probably oversensitive.

skidoodle · 13/03/2010 23:13

I didn't express it well. I'm doing a lot of one-handed typing these days.

Eurostar · 14/03/2010 00:11

If he's saying no kids at 44 he should know his mind by now. I wouldn't hang around hoping he'd change it because he might well do so in ten years when it might be too late to for her.

annatw9 · 14/03/2010 08:48

i understand exactly what you meant in your first post about the absolute love towards your own children vs love for your partner - of course i would give my life up for my child - but im afraid i wouldnt for my partner (just being honest, it will never come to that so its entirely theoretical). IF she definitely wants children, she will need to make a choice, she cant second guess that he MIGHT change his mind in the future, BUT she is still young enough to not feel pressure re having to have children immediately. she should play it by ear for a couple more years, then crunch time.

Morloth · 14/03/2010 12:25

If you had said they were late teens/early 20s I would have said, well he might change his mind but she needs to bear in mind that he might not.

But at those ages? If she wants children then she needs to move on. He is 44 he knows what he wants and that doesn't include kids.

I don't love my DS more than my DH, completely different and incomparable feelings towards them. I am protective of my DS in a way I don't feel like towards DH and I am attracted to DH in a way that I obviously am not towards DS.

The difference for me is that I would happily die for either of them, but I would kill an innocent to protect DS.