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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Dh and I bickering rather destructively. Think it's gender differences...

60 replies

handlemecarefully · 18/07/2005 12:58

Are there any good books which will help me understand men a little better, and how they tick?

I am sure that most of dh's and my frequent and sometimes acrimonious battles are rooted in gender differences, and me not always getting where he is coming from and vice versa - hence misunderstandings....

Perhaps If I had more insight into 'blokeish' thinking I could be more tolerant and forgiving, and not get quite so worked up.

Any recommended reading?

OP posts:
handlemecarefully · 18/07/2005 14:10

Sometimes think it would be nice to raise my children in a women only commune

OP posts:
Enid · 18/07/2005 14:11

I often think it must be gender differences. but does that mean we just have to live with it? I really don't think I can. Also there's the big thing of him being so stubborn and refusing to change because I want him to (IYSWIM)

handlemecarefully · 18/07/2005 14:11

Not that I am men bashing. They are just so frustratingly different!

OP posts:
Enid · 18/07/2005 14:11
Grin
lilaclotus · 18/07/2005 14:12

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It / Allan & Barbara Pease
this book really helped me to understand my dp better.

Enid · 18/07/2005 14:13

I dont want to understand him!

I just want him to be bloody ready on time

Tommy · 18/07/2005 14:14

agree with lilaclotus - I found that book the best one to understand DH but, unfortunately, blokes never read these sort of books IME so it makes no difference to the way we treat each other!

ninah · 18/07/2005 14:16

I just wish they would bother to find out how to speak to us so that we don't 'perceive' disrespect rather than our always having to learn to translate it into something approaching respectful discourse!
Commune, I'm in (as long as I'm gardner not cook)

Enid · 18/07/2005 14:16

I'm more than happy to be cook

handlemecarefully · 18/07/2005 14:24

Thanks for that other recommendation laliclotus.

I'm not sure - even though they don't read these books and so won't modify their behaviour, it might help me to moderate my reaction to him and not take things to heart so that rows don't escalate.

OP posts:
ninah · 18/07/2005 14:29

Let me know how you get on! meanwhile I'll order the tepees and dreamcatchers

Tommy · 18/07/2005 15:30

I think that book (about the map reading) has helped me in that I now realise that when DH comes home, he isn't really grumpy for an hour, he is just doing his "man thing" - still pisses me off but al least I know why he does it!

handlemecarefully · 18/07/2005 15:57

Ah the women can't read maps book....right, that's it. I'll order all 3 from Amazon - cheaper than a messy divorce.

Incidentally, did I mention that dh got so angry with me yesterday that he actually smacked my bum? Honestly. I didn't know whether to laugh at the sheer farce of it or weep!

OP posts:
ninah · 18/07/2005 16:10

mm well
there's gender difference and there's just plain wrong
make sure they come from your joint account!

madmarchhare · 18/07/2005 16:12

then read 'women may be from venus, but men are really from uranus'

Moomin · 18/07/2005 16:20

What others have said is true - men don't read books like this so you need to tackle things in another way. Those books are good for reading yourself so you can understand some of the fundemental differences, but I've found the only way to implement changes is to be very practical about them. Don't expect a man to know what you're thinking, esp if you are in a mood. Most men won't wnat to get to the bottom of what;s the matter; they'll just think you're being moody and mysterious.

Get used to voicing EXACTLY what the problem is and being very specific about it. And so you don't get accused to nagging, sit down with him and present it as a problem to be solved by the pair of you - men love thinking they're good problem solvers.

I'm a secondary school teacher and find I have to use very different methods with boys than the ones I use with girls to get them to co-operate. Luckily for me, I seem to have married a dh with more female hormones than most who is very in touch with his feelings and loves to communicate; but even he took some work in the early days.

Tommy · 18/07/2005 17:22

good point Moomin - on the going out thing, I make a list of what needs to go in the car/bag and tiock it off as I go. tell DH to use the list too and tick things off as he puts them in. He mostly does what he's told because one Christmas we went to his parents and I packed everything for Dss and me. DH was in charge of his clothes etc, the presents and the wine to take. He managed to get his own clothes in but forgot everything else Didn't bother me as I was pregnant and not drinking anyway and I had already given my family their presents. Learnt his lesson

Tortington · 18/07/2005 17:24

moomins right - exactly right. we really do assume mor of them than we should - we assume they are reasonable adults like we are - really they arn't. there is ver little common sense - or using a bit of sense to judge a situation - reading between the lines is none existant and therefore you get home from work - as does he. you think to yourself - i made tea last night... cheeky Bugger not bothered even started it - who does he think i am - and here i am doing the kids homework with them becuase the projects got to be in tomorrow and he knows he knows becuase we discussed it yesterday that ds has sportsday tomorrow and needs his kit washing - how inconsiderate - before you know it ..your at boiling point wanting to bite his head off and he thinks " f*ck me i only sat down after work!"

so you get in and say " its your turn to make the tea - make it choppy lovenuts am starvin - oh and while am doing this project with dd, put that pe kit in the washer will you while you in there.

its a state of mind you have to get into - around PMT it doesnt always work and sometimes you get totally naffed off with having to do it. but things do need saying - rather than assuming. however if you have said it and they still dont pull their weight or you repeatedly say things and they call you a nag - then they are taking the piss. as they are not children - they are just not as socially aware in a family setting as we are - if it was at work - you betcha the kettle would be on before partner came through door - always best to keep on right side of collegues - but they dont use that lateral thinking at home

sorry another bloody essay!

ScummyMummy · 18/07/2005 17:31

He smacked your bum, hmc? In anger as opposed to playfully/sexually? If my partner did that I would f kill him. So help me. I don't care if men are martians says I shouldn't.

ScummyMummy · 18/07/2005 17:32

Good essay, custy.

miggymum · 18/07/2005 21:21

I like your essays custy, you always tell it like it is - from our point of view of course.

My DP infuriates me to the hilt when we are arguing or I say something to him and he retorts "is it that time of the month???" so I spit back "yeah but what is your excuse!!" to which he will reply "the fact that you are due on"!!!

Grrrrr

Moomin · 18/07/2005 21:34

Another thing that I read in one of those male/female books is about the difference in vision for men and women which supposedly stems from when we all lived in caves. Sounds dodgy but makes sense:

If we assume that most men are descended from the hunter/gatherer types, and we imagine them in diagram form, standing a way off from their prey, then we see that their vision has a very narrow range, i.e. just focused on their prey - or in modern terms, just focused on one thing: what they are doing at that very time.

If you compare this with the diagram for a woman and you imagine she's the one stuck in the cave with the baby, her vision is MUCH wider, as she needs to take in all of her surroundings and suss out the environment so that she and the baby are safe. Again, projected onto modern life, this is what we recognise as multi-tasking.

Women are much better at walking into a room and sussing out a multitude of situations: where's the exit, who's with whom, what kind of curtains are up, what food and drink is being offered, etc. Men walk into the same room and see what or who is in front of them, End Of (as the Big Brother contestants would say).

So, when you ask you dh to cook the tea, they will do just that - the kitchen will be a pigsty, they won't have put stuff away, the bin will still be overflowing but the food will be on the table, just as you asked!

All huge generalisations, of course, but you get the picture.

Piggiesmum · 19/07/2005 00:11

I've read the Mens are from Mars.... and the women can't read maps one. It was quite enlightening. There are examples of arguements in them that I read and thought "that is us!!!!!!, we're normal after all"

It not only helped me understand him better and why we have the rows we do, i also understand myself and the way I react so much better. I used to get wound up by things he'd say but not know why - now i do and it also helps me express myself better to him and we end up discussing things rather than rowing.

Rather than get frustrated that he's not interested in reading the book I've found he really is interested if I explain things to him especially if it's done in a - "this is how you can really help me" way. A classic example is the - 'woman is upset about something, man tries to fix it, she gets more upset cos what she really just wants a hug etc not a solution' - type scenario. Dh has really got the hang of this one. Occasionally he slips up but realises quickly, says something like -oops sorry i'm doing that fix-it-man thing again- and gives me the hug I really want. I can tell he's really pleased with himself too when I start to cheer up because in a way he has still fixed the problem of stopping me being upset, he's just had to be taught a more effective way of doing it

Piggiesmum · 19/07/2005 00:12

oh and he's also quite jealous of my "superior peripheral vision" as he calls it

HappyDaddy · 19/07/2005 08:37

Those books are all cobblers, that's why we don't read them. Men are from Mars and women from Venus? More like women are too bloody analytical about everything. Everything with women is "why do you do it that way, why can't you do it this way", how about we just do things differently so live with it?

Yes, I know it's all our fault. I don't need a bleedin' smart arse Californian trick cyclist to tell me that.