is this man a tosspot or is is really me?

[rosyred]

Hi all have posted on here a few times, and your advice is really helping me to grow some balls.
bit of background. I have been with H for 19 years and married for 16, we have 4 dc's and expecting another in 8 weeks.
H has been physically and emotionally abusive abusive throughout most of our marriage, he then went on to have affair with my sil 8 years ago and another affair last summer when we were living apart but still together ifyswim.
I know why am I still with him?
Anyway just recently have been really down and decided I had to take action and not let life pass me bY.
We got back together last september after me putting the condition that he seeks help for his issues, he seemed really keen to do this and went to GP'S where he was prescribed AD's and said he had been refered for counselling. I worked out that the counselling bit was a lie and said to him yesterday I don't trust you anymore and cannot spend my life with some one who wil not do anything to save our marriage and family.
He said I should trust him, oh yea silly me.
He then went on to say he doesn't need help, as he has counselled himself. lol. he wants to just work and then come home to us.
I said without help he will hurt me again and I'm not prepared to wait for that.
He said I have problems and I should stop labelling him as he is a good man with a good heart and not the things I say he is.
he said I need help and that he doesn't love me and wants to be alone as he's had enough.
he went on with the usual shit. blah de blah.
Anyway I ended it saying I deserve better and I want someone to fight for me and not expect me to put up and shut up. he can't deal with rejection so always has to end it first you see.
Am I wrong to demand he seeks help?
Now I just want him gone, but he has no friends or family to stay with? am very angry today that I have wasted so many years on this tosspot.

If he is abusive and won't seek help-dolly, he'll never change. there's no such thing as self counselling and with all due respect- he is a grown man, it's not your fault he has no friends or family to stay with (and making you feel sorry for him is his way of staying in the loop and is, too, in it's own way- abusive). Stay away from him, the sooner the better (today it's you, tomorrow it's one of the kids IYSWIM. And before you say "oh, he'll never raise a hand on DCs- did you ever think it possible for him to raise a hand on you?)

Sounds like you don't love and/or respect him anymore (he says he doesn't love you either)- then why stay together? and don't say for the sake of the kids- children deserve happy parents, that's the most important thing.

((hugs))
sounds so hard. be brave.

Contact your local Womens aid, he wont change and has no intention of changing, you and your children deserve better.
I wish you all the best.

you are still with him because part of you wants to be. Maybe you enjoy playing the victim to his abuser? Time to decide if you want your kids to see this sort of relationship as normal

Thanks I know I agree, and turning on the kids is something I worry about, he already can be threatening to 15 yr old dd and last night was saying bloody girls there so difficult, we have 2 ds and 2 dd, sons aren't teens yet so I said that wasn't an informed comment.
I just can't beleive that some men won't do anything and would rather walk away than confront his demons. I just want to sever all contact with him but know I can't do that.

Tatt- I really am not playing the victim I really did want our family to work and have given him numerous chances. my problem is i always look for the best in people. he is like a bad habit that I need to kick, because I know he will hurt me and the kids again in someway, i'm not stupid. I just thought that when it comes to losing your family that most people would do whatever it takes. i don't think this is love and I have finally woken and smelt the coffee iyswim

Could you tell him it is over, do you think he would find a flat or something to rent? You can't let the guilt that he has nowhere to stay stop you - whose fault is it that he has no friends? If he has access to money, then the worst case scenario is he stays in a B&B for a bit while he gets himself sorted (not a good idea to let him stay at yours unless you put a definite time scale on it - he will keep pushing and pushing)

It might be that you leaving is the shock he needs to sort his life out - although if he doesn't, it's still his problem, not yours.

You know, in your position I'd be almost relieved to find he had lied about the counselling. Whether he really needs it or not, it was a condition of you having him back, a condition which he did not meet. It's another example of the lack of respect that led him to abuse you and have affairs. You gave him another chance, but it sounds as if you weren't fully happy with it, hence why you have been feeling down recently. Now you're off the hook; you have a perfect reason to call time. I suggest you do so before the baby comes along and leaves you extra vulnerable.

Interested to know, though, whether he really did behave himself for the 5-6 months since coming back, or whether there hasn't been all that much difference bar an absence of hitting.

BB I have tried leaving in the past, only to get broken promises again, this was his final chance. when he left for ow last time, I stupidly wanted him back and I did much of the fighting. I was very weak and vulnerable at the time.
Annie. yes I am relieved and told him this last night, I know now that he never intended to get help was just stringing me along till it can be forgotten about, have done this in the past so I guess he thought I would do so again. I told him again again throughout our marriage that one day I will have enough and end it, so he was warned.
Don't know if he has behaved in last months, I know he works and comes home, doesn't go out etc, but who knows, he's done all the tricks in the past, like other sim card.
I just don't trust him at all and all the lies he tells, very manipulative. he went to hotel with ow and claims they did not have sex, I find that very hard to believe, he also claims he dumped her for me, I think he came back because I am his security blanket.
he does love me I think, just not in a healthy normal way and I am now craving a normal respectful realtionship, I think I deserve it.

Yes, you do deserve a normal respectful relationship. One based on mutual affection, not on lies and threats.

Never mind who "officially" ends it. Let him believe it was his choice if it will make it easier to get him out. You won't persuade him he isn't a good man, as it's what he wants to believe, so don't waste breath trying. It's getting him out that matters, before he starts ill-treating your precious DD for the crime of being a teenager.

Yes, you do deserve a healthy, normal relationship, but I don't think you are ever going to get that with him. And while you stay with him, that man who might give you a normal relationship may be passing by, thinking "Never mind, she is attached, what a shame".

After rereading your OP, I would kick him out. (Give him one month's notice, if you are really feeling generous) Change the locks and dump his stuff in binliners on the lawn. He has nowhere to stay? I doubt it. He would find somewhere, or he would pay for a B&B.

I can understand the feeling that he loves you and that should be worth something, but, honestly, you do deserve more. He might love you but he doesn't respect you, he doesn't care about you, he doesn't think of you as an equal. When you love someone you want to make them happy. Even if he can't help the way he is acting, if he doesn't know any other way to be, it doesn't mean you have to put up with it. You have offered him many chances, many opportunities to change - more than he deserves - how hard has he tried? What does that say about how important you are to him?

You need to get the support of your friends and family behind you as well, to keep you strong. How about the friend who had the fall out with him? She has seen what he is like - she will support you. Can you get any local support as well - health visitor? Local children's centre?

Thanks guys, yes I do have support from friends and family, he loses friends by breaking their trust or they just don't respect him anymore as a man, apparently though that is my fault as I am a taker and not a giver.
He has been very nice lately, attentive, caring and all the rest, but I'm at the stage now where I know he won't sustain it, not long term anyway, he has never been physically violent when I am pregnant, too worried about what others will think of him I guess, so this is a false security at the moment.He hasn't got much money but he will have to sort it out as I really want out now.I don't want my daughter to have esteem issues because of this situation, she stands up to him now, cause his way is right leave the room now and if they stall he will grab her arm and move her upstairs, has also called her idiot at times, I know deep down its wrong just need people to verify that for me so I really know. one day she will lump him one and then it will be bad for us all. don't want to wait for that. but as you say he won't listen me telling him, so I will let him leave and let him think I'm at fault aswell as really don't care. I have so much love to give and I want to share my life with someone without drama's anymore.
anyway the emotional brick wall has gone up to him now, so can't see that coming down.
its funny cause he quotes things back that ive said to him, like he has an emotional wall now and I can't hurt him and I am a little girl in a womans body etc. I think hate is starting to kick in now.

Sigh. For the nth time, women do not stay with abusive men because they enjoy being a victim.
They stay for lots of reasons, eg not being able to manage on their own, being scared, being unconfident, believing that no other person will ever love them, being in love with the "good" side of the man etc

rosy, if you have reached the end, then put some space between you and him, ie kick him out. Don't be tempted to fall for a sob story like "oh, I have no money, we will have to share the house, but we will be divorced" or any other relationship that abusive men like to dream up, so that they can have their freedom, but still keep you under their thumb.
I only realised after getting away from my abusive ex, how much the children were affected by teh situation.
The more you achieve on your own, the stronger you will get.

I agree with putting space between you. It will be a constant drip drip of insidious abuse all the time and you are pregnant you will be a nervous wreck. It is exhausting dealing with this kind of man.

Ask him to move out today and give him 48 hours and then tell him if he can then oprove he is what he says he is then you will think, think, about dating him again and not before.

It's time to look after you and your children it sounds like you have looked after him aone for too long.
Be kind to yoruself and do it today.

"he said I need help and that he doesn't love me and wants to be alone as he's had enough."

That's it in a nutshell...bin him!

Yes, I have been there, I know what you mean - still seeing the good in him. Unfortunately you just have to turn a blind eye to that. I know it sounds heartless, but try writing down all the bad things he does on a day to day basis, and/or any big incidents - and you will see the "good" sides to him aren't so good after all. What is good about him if he is not nice all the time? Even if he is nice more than 50% of the time - the bad times are 100x worse. He has wasted his chance with you - multiple times. Maybe if he is lucky he will change and have a chance with somebody else. And if not, he only has himself to blame - don't waste time feeling sorry for him, thinking that nobody else will understand him and put up with him like you do - believe me, he will find someone else to care (and god help her when he does).

You say you are worried that one day your DD will turn around and hit him - what if it was the other way around? Have you thought that one day, he might hit her? You owe it to your children to protect them from this man. And yes, I know that sounds/feels ridiculous, when you are living with him, but it's a defence mechanism - the stress of living in constant danger is immense, and the brain will try to deny it as long as possible, to protect you.

that was me 5 years ago...also 2 dd and 2 ds....i got out. ex has gone on to abuse 3 other women and their children

i realised it was never going to work early on,but stayed for dc. then he started to turn on dc as they got older and started to push boundaries

you need to escape....i cant tell you how great life is without him...on my own,nice house (which have made nice myself)

Oh, you poor thing.

You know it's over. He's a violent criminal who doesn't respect his family enough to even go to counselling.

And he's starting to abuse his kids.

I'm sorry it's got to this. But you warned him, he's never going to change, you are being strong and you have to stick to your guns.

Don't make your children look back at their childhood and say, Dad abused us and Mum supported him.

Yes you are all right, I don't trust his motives now as to why he is here. he said yesterday he came back because it was the right thing to do, I said thats the wrong reason. but when he is being nice, ne says I didn't mean that, so in the end you never know the truth. Hate living in this atmosphere have done it so many times, just want to be at peace with myself am so not bothered about being alone. I have lost all respect for the man, his mum and sister and brother don't speak to him, he has lost countless friends over the years. last incident was in the summer when I got so low I attempted overdose, not seriously just wanted help. my friend had kids at hers, he came to my house and let my friends sort it, i.e calling ambulance etc. he then went back to work and after fnishing work went to pub rather than immediately pick up his kids from friends. male friend who was looking after kids with wife lost all respect for him after that and told him i can't believe you did that.
I never ever want to feel that low again and am trying to stay positive. three blond boys. how do you manage access to kids, because like you we have so many, I worried he will always be around ifyswim.
I can't work out if the man is egotistical or has low self esteem, I know i shouldn't worry myself about it, but why do they always deny the extent of their problems.

3blondeboys, I could have written your entire post! I also have 4 children.

rosy, the point is, that you will have a space, where he is NOT allowed to come. Your home, arranged how YOU like it. Your children will have a safe haven, where he can't mess with their heads, or be violent (and the violence probably affects them a lot more than you realise).

From this basis, you (and they) can organise that they spend time with him. My ex never wants to have all the chidlren at once, and has played other tricks like not returning the children at the end of a visit, but if you stay firm, have all the paperwork in order and contact the authorities if he starts throwing his weight around, then he will get tired of playing tricks in the end. It will take time, but is worth it.

How long did it take him for him to leave you alone. I get the feeling H is already bored of the way I have become and doesn't want it anymore. my guess is cause he looks at me and see's the effect of his behaviour and his massive ego won't allow him to do that. he also self praises a lot. v funny to see. He is walking around house, cooking and that and I want him out but am scared to start a fight. this house is in my name anyway. made sure of that to keep control. he kept asking me to put him on tenancy and I said yes when you sort out your issues. he didn't so tough. Just wish I Had done this ages ago, instead of letting him walk in and out whilst knobbing ow.

It's going to be much easier to get rid of him then!! Well done for not putting him on your tenancy. Evict him!

Speak to local police Dom violence unit. They can be there whilst he removes his belongings. Get other agencies involved for some support. I had to involve army welfare, but got out safely in the end.

rosy - about 2 years. If he ups the violence when you ask him to leave, then call the police. Do it without hesitation, while he is still on the premises, asap if he hits you.
You'll have to go to the doctor, and make a statement, and maybe go to court as a witness. Do it, it's your best protection.
If he threatens worse violence ("the police cant protect you all the time"), then up your household security (I won't live anywhere thats far from a police station now, or anywhere remote), and call the police every time he gets violent, until he gets the message that you, and the community, will not tolerate this behaviour any more.

er- tosspot!

him-not you!

It's him. Obviously. You talked about him not wanting to "confront his demons" so you know it's him. Who the hell wants to confront demons??!

Look, as long as he's got you he doesn't need to do any confronting. What are you trying to do, confront them for him? Rosyred, demon tamer. Lol and sigh.

Chuck him out. Tell him he's not good enough for you and your DCs, because it's true. Not "until ... " or "unless ... ". You've already given him those chances, and he chose not to care enough. What more do you want, a sainthood? I shouldn't think your kids, or their future partners, will find you all that saintly for providing them with this kind of home life.

Take a look at "Men Who Hate Women (and the Women Who Love Them)" by Susan Forward.
You might also like Robin Norwood's "Women Who Love Too Much" or this lovely book about the Freedom Program, by Pat Craven.

Good luck, go well