How to deal with siblings who won't connect?

[Solo2]

Family has always been important to me and I miss my sister and brother and the childhood we shared. Our parents have both died, in the last 5 years and this has been made even worse, for me, by the fact that my siblings want little if any contact with me and my DCs, especially as I'm a single mum.

My brother and sister are both very successful professionals, with high profile careers, and are often 'in the media'. Bro. is married with SAHM wife and 2 small DCs and sister is divorced with 5 DCs, who have largely been raised by nannies and are now raising themselves. Her ex-husband doesn't have or want contact with his children.

It's as if my siblings are 'too busy and important' to want something as 'trivial' as to spend time with even their own families let alone with me and my DCs. Bro. has lots of unresolved issues from his childhood and has virtually become estranged from me, since our father's death. He refused even to acknowledge me or my DCs at our father's funeral. I think the root of it is because he feels I was the 'favoured child' when we were young.

Sis. will respond to email contact but only about v practical things. She won't take phone calls from me and if I get through to her ever, she's always 'too busy to speak'. Neither would ever dream of phoning me, ever or meeting up although we don't live that far away from each other.

Our parents death has made me value even more my family of origin and my sibs are all I have left. On the other hand, it's made them more and more detached from me and each other and I know they think I'm really weird to want contact with them and their DCs and even to want to see them.

Myself and DSs see the sibs and families maybe once every 2 yrs and I'd like much more contact and also regular telephone contact.

When we had a holiday last yr in the same UK village that my bro and family were staying (hadn't planned this beforehand, only found out later he'd be there too!), he specifically stated he didn't want us to meet up and we had to be v careful every day in case they were on the same bit of beach that we were, in case he felt we were intruding.

I found this way beyond weird and unnatural and I'd really love my DSs to get to know their cousins but it looks as if they never will. My sibs would be their joint guardians if I died - as there's no one else - and yet barely know their uncle and aunt at all. My 8 ur old twins already think it's strange to have an uncle and aunt like this and often ask why Uncl X or Auntie Z doesn't want to see me or them.

Wise Mumsnetters, am I the weird one to want to connect with my sibs and to mainatin family attachments? Should I give up and accept that my closest blood relatives, who got on well together as children - are now almost as lost to me as our late parents?

Both sibs have suggested that I'm the strange one and should really just rely on friends now for human contact and not at all on family. Yet all around me, I see others with daily close contact with sisters and brothers and I feel sadness and grief at 'losing' my own sibs. as well as my parents.

I'd love to hear about other people's adult relationships with their sibs and if this situation is v common or unusual?

Bumping my own thread....

We're going through something which may well end up like your situation. DH just has one sibling, his sis. Their parents are still alive and the whole time I've known them all she has been a self centred spoilt brat. Quite happy for the favroutism from her mum which she (the sis) has acknowledged. The mum is entirely responsible for this and sister's attitude is 'I'm special'. DH says it has been like this forever. Neither mum nor sis are going to change and we don't expect them to.

We have tried to connect with her and involve her but she has never really been interested in us or our DCs. We have both reached that point of fatigue where we are now quite indifferent to her.

Now the only times we see her and her family are when they visit the parents. What none of them seem to grasp is once the parents are no longer around there will be NO reason whatsoever to have anything to do with her.

I suspect she is feeling the distance now that she has a family of her own and wants that family connection but the damage has been done. I can't explain it really. There just doesn't seem to be that spark of familial love/friendship/care/trust. I don't know how we can undo that. That is how we are feeling right now.

What people have to realise is that these dynamics in families are immensely hurtful. I am not saying that you are like his sister just that something about your post rang true about the hurt your brother might be feeling.

I do hope you find a way to connect again with them. Is it easier with your sister at all?

Thanks for your response, Brass. My bro. was the spoiled youngest in the family, like your sis. in law but I was closer to both parents because they sort of used me to 'parent' them and sort out their marital conflicts. Later on, our father saw my bro. as more of a rival as he exceeded my father's success but in the same career but saw me as a confidante and support to him.

I was also like a second mother to my bro., as our mum had lots of problems. So I think he resents me for this, whilst as a child, he appreciated this.

I've tried to talk about all this with him but he immediately sneers and patronises me, which is v sad, as I do love him. He used to be horrible to our mother, who partly spoiled him and later, as she felt threatened by his 'superiority', put him down. But he's mythologised his relationship with her, pretending they were really close.

My sister agrees with my perspective but understandably doesn't want to get involved between us. Both she and my bro. wouldn't countenance talking about feelings, never expressed any grief at our parents' deaths and have a v v practical, emotionless approach to life.

So I can't get any further with trying to build bridges or discuss what's gone wrong.

My sister is far too busy and not at all into emotions or 'touchy/feely' stuff to have a conversation at any depth about anything. Now she's divorced, she is dating like mad, in her late 40's, making up for the lost yrs she was married - and working all the rest of the time, travelling round the world. We have almost opposite views of child-rearing - with me wanting to be always totally there for my twins (although whilst they're at school, I run my own business full-time) and her letting her youngest two fend for themselves for days on end, as she travels away for work, when they were only about 8 or 9.

My bro. and I were always closest to each other than to any other members of the family - he's never been close to our sister. That's what makes it so sad that he's completely alienated from me now. He's like a volcano about to erupt at any moment and any contact at all with me sets him off.

I'm curious to know how people who have good adult connections with siblings manage this and what makes the difference, as i really , really want my sons to stay close, long after I'm gone.

You don't sound as though you like them (re your comments on their childcare arrangements) and they don't sound as though they like you. I'd leave them alone. The fact that you are related is irrelevent if you don't like each other.

I don't agree with my sister's approach to parenting but I DO love her and I'd really like to spend more time with her. We've agreed to disagree on our opposite approaches to parenting, although it's my bro. who, in the past, agrees with me and has a similar approach to me.

As children, he and I were most alike but my sister and I did loads together, when he was tiny, as we're v close in age. Because of our shared history, no matter our differences, I always assumed we'd accept each other 'warts and all' and that this was what families do.

Our roots are based in the same 'soil', although we've grown in different directions. My ideal would be to phone each other weekly and go on family holidays together, sharing big holiday homes etc. I thought we'd get closer now we all have children and especially now our parents are dead - and talk about our childhood and about now and how we've all turned out.

I wonder if because there's three of us, if that combination never works, generally and there's always going to be one sibling ostracised at any one time?

As children, we'd argue and fight but this all felt normal and I assumed the same pattern would keep going in adulthood - that we'd disagree, argue and then come back together again because of the blood ties. It was like for me 'liking each other' didn't matter as the connection was and is (for me) on a much deeper, lifelong level. That's what I see as being 'family'.

Maybe you're right, though - 2rebecca - and maybe if you don't 'like' family members, you shouldn't continue the connection in later life? I find this v sad.

Solo2 could he be grieving still and in his anger phase and therefore taking it out on you BECAUSE he feels closest to you? You know, we hurt the ones closest to us. It does sound like he's lashing out from what you describe.
Just a thought.....

I have to go now but I'll give it some more thought........

Thanks for the thought, Brass. Yes, I'm sure he's still grieving in his own way and I think that a lot of his unresolved anger with our late mother has been projected onto me.

I also think he's got lots of intense feelings about our father being more inclined towards me and other kinds of female support (nor affairs) than towards men and how our father found my bro's ordinary 'macho' qualities threatening and aversive, rather than something to be celebrated.

Our father and my bro. and I were v close for a lot of our lives, with our sister and mother more peripheral and deemed 'problematic'. But my father and I were always closest within that threesome because my father felt a lot more comfortable around women, generally, than around men.

I also wonder if my bro. found it hard when I had twin sons because so much of his younger life, he was 'mothered' by me. He may have felt 'usurped' and also jealous that I was having children before he and his wife.

2rebecca, I was thinking more about your comment and am wondering if I don't show my appreciation of my siblings enough, especially as in recent times, I've felt huge need and longing for contact with them, which they reject, resulting in me probably coming across as resentful and not especially fun to be around.

I know also that I've been finding life v stressful as a single mum running my own business single-handedly and with both my sons having health problems. I probably don't sound like an attractice person to be around much. Why would they want more contact if I'm needy and stressed?

This is a v helpful discussion for me and thanks for your input.

morning solo2,

Just caught up....I think it's worth persevering, he may be testing you in this way although it remains painful for you to have to go through it. I don't see there is much else you can do if he is unwilling to delve into the past or speak about his anger in a productive way.

It's very very complicated what goes on in our heads and what goes on in theirs.

Perhaps you could concentrate on getting you on track (I'm so sorry about your troubles, your twins' health etc, I really appreciate how much you must be juggling). If you can manage it keep making small gestures towards them that don't cost you too much emotionally. Does that make sense? The consistency may win them round....at least your brother......

My sibs and I get on well but we don't phone each other weekly and only occasionally go on holidays together and then rarely all of us.
If we argued over who was mummy's favourite and how to bring up kids then we'd probably see far less of each other.
I wonder if you have an unrealistic idea of how close most siblings are, although I agree seeing each other every 2 years isn't very much.
I'd abandon the idea of talking about your shared childhood for now as it sounds as though you all viewed your childhood differently and will just squabble about it, if you're going to get on as adults then the relationship has to be more about what you are interested in and enjoy doing now.
Maybe your brother sees your desire for a closer relationship as more controlling mothering behaviour that he has to step back from. It's a shame your mum foced you into a mothering role. A friend of mine has problems with her sibs because of this as she was an eldest sister who helped mother her parents large family after the parents divorce.
She does seem to find it hard to let go of fussing over them, where as I'm the eldest but have never felt at all motherly to my sibs and we interact more as equals.
I'd be inclined to keep in touch but take things slowly maybe just going out for the day occasionally.

I have some friends who get on incredibly well with their siblings and socialise with them, go on holiday together, speak every week etc... exactly what you would like.

Then I have other friends (and me) who aren't especially close to their siblings, see each other on family occasions and are there for each other in times of need but otherwise leave each other alone.

The main difference from what I can see is that the sibs who get on are very similar. They have similar lives, similar personalities, interests etc. So being friends comes more naturally. Those who don't get on so well are generally quite different from each other.

Ultimately I think you can't force friendship where you don't have that much in common with your siblings apart from a shared history. Perhaps set your sights a little lower - maybe seeing them once every few months (perhaps separately rather than together).

Hi Brass and 2rebecca. Thanks again for your thoughts. I do think I need to be more 'giving' towards both my sibs. rather than wanting to 'take' in terms of time with them. I have to think what exactly I have that they'd want to receive from me that THEY'd value, as opposed to what I'd value, though and I'm not sure what that might be.

As you say 2rebecca, my bro. may resent my desire to be a part of his life, like a hovering mother and want and need to break away into independence. I find it difficult that he does this with so much hostility. In his emails he's sneeringly sarcastic towards me and I don't know what it is I've done that time and am left reeling.

Mostly, though, he doesn't reply to emails at all, even 'chatty' ones where I ask how his wife and children are getting on or let him know a birthday present is on the way for one of his children. He occasionally sends my sis. and I links to his latest TV/radio appearance or some newspaper or mag. quoting him and I'll email back, congratulating him but he still doesn't reply.

What I find really hard is my sibs. lack of desire to meet up or have any contact at all and if I didn't email them and occasionally phone my sis., I think they'd be quite happy to have no contact at all.

We've been trying to find a time for almost 2 yrs now, since our father's death to sort out boxes and boxes of family photos and letters between the 3 of us. Each time my sister (who has all the stuff in her garage) suggests a date and time, I can do it but bro. can't because he's only willing to do it in the middle of the working week (when he still gets paid, as he's so 'high-powered' he can be flexible with his time) and I can only do it at a w/e, as I'm self-employed and have children to take to and from school. He's either seeing friends or on mini-breaks or sometimes working at w/es and that takes priority to seeing family even if it's to sort out family stuff.

It then becomes a 'battle' about who's needs are most important. One is raging at the moment, in a quiet, understated emailed way! There's only contact at all at present, because of the need to sort out a date and there'd never be any question of us spending a day out together for fun and I've given up suggesting anything like that (bro. and I live 4 to 6 hrs drive from each other in any case and sis and I about 2 hrs away from each other.)

In the past, when I was 'allowed' to visit my sis. and her children, always, always she'd be working in her office the entire time we'd be there. So like if we'd not met up for about 2 yrs, I'd see her only when she opened the door to me and my twins and then she'd be 'too busy' the rest of the time we were there and I'd only really get to see her youngest children. Now she's claiming she's 'too busy' to let me visit at all and only willing to have us there when we fix a date to sort out the family photos etc.

Maybe this really is normal, though, with sibs? I don't really know...But I do know people who would regularly see sibs. several times a month or yr and be on the phone to their sister each day maybe and have all the cousins playing together regularly and I suppose I feel sad and envious, especially as my twins would love contact with their cousins and only have me at all in their lives.

I think I imagined our parents' deaths would bring us more together and it seems to have had the opposite effect, other than the necessary meeting we had to have for the funeral and clearing the family home.

My late father had vitually no contact at all with his bros. in the last decades of his life and maybe this is the norm - or else my family pattern?

I'd like to be able to talk about our parents with the two people who knew them as much as I did and my sibs are just not interested. When we cleared out the family home, I wanted to be able to talk about how it felt and the things we unearthed from the past and to cry and express feelings. But my sibs. just wanted to speed through sharing out who got what and throw everything else out and neither would dream of showing any feelings at all.

They're both the 'stiff-upper lip/ pull yourself together and don't talk about it' type and I'm the 'express your feelings, talk about it, feel the feelings' type - although I'm trying to be more detached and 'just getting on with it' these days.

Your brother's issues may be compounded by the fact that he is 'in the media'. He may well see himself as rather important now and if he has an axe to grind about the past he may be saying 'well I'm special now and I don't need you so there!'
Sending the link to his appearances sounds a bit egotistical especially when he doesn't respond to thankyou for your gifts etc.

DH's sis occasionally emails but I have to say I am always polite and respond even if it isn't particularly conversational. I would never not say thankyou for example if she sent a gift...

We've never holidayed with siblings either.

Solo, a certain amount of anger/resentment comes over clearly from your posts, even in your behaviour to them as well as the other way round. Several of your descriptions have been worded in a way that can't fail to make them look bad and yourself a victim; I am not meaning to say their behaviour is fine, nor that you are not in any way a victim, but it shows you have a fixed way of thinking about things which may be an obstacle to your getting closer with them - or to you accepting their wishes not to get closer. They clearly do have "issues" and may well be denying them, whilst you seem to be the most self-aware of the three. It is you, therefore, who is in the best position to build bridges if they can be built at all, but you need help (a course in family bricklaying, as it were!) I suggest you might benefit from counselling to work through your own issues with your family, before working out a strategy that might get through to them.

I am sorry if this seems presumptious and I definitely didn't mean it to sound critical. It's yet another example of how poor parenting causes long-term suffering to the next generation. At least with your awareness, you are going to make a far better job of raising your boys - although you can't force them to be friends in later life!

FWIW, my sister and I are quite close, I think, but we have only been on holiday together twice in 25 years. The first time we were both desperate for a break, couldn't find anyone else to go with and decided as it was only for a couple of days we could probably manage not to kill each other. The second time she dragged me away for a week because I was so low with depression that I would have been grateful to the Devil himself if he'd taken me out of that awful house. The fact that we only had one argument during the holiday was an indication of what a bad state I was in. She probably saved my life. Whether we'd ever do it again remains to be seen, but it certainly wouldn't be for more than short breaks. We love each other dearly but rub each other up the wrong way chronically!

Thank you again. Anniegetyourgun, you make some v good points and I've been reflecting on my own role in the situation, especially since posting here. I'm sure I'm not not blameless. I'm also sure that there's a huge amount of anger going on under the surface for all three of us.

I did in fact have 3 lots of counselling/ therapy over my life, including a latter longterm one that lasted 14 yrs but unfortunately (and this would make a whole other post!), he abused and exploited the relationship. This led to me having little faith in counselling and also as you can imagine, the desire to 'go it alone' without a therapist for once in decades. Part of posting on MN is that I feel drawing on lots of diffreent people's wisdom and their different angles on things is probably better and more 'natural' than seeking one person's view and support.

Without wanting to disclose too much identifying detail, members of my family are associated in a 'big way' with that whole arena, making anything you say to another member often interpreted as 'psychobabble' and with the opinion that 'this sort of thing is for patients and we rise above it all in our superior position'.

I'm torn between tiptoeing around the situation with my sibs and trying to slowly build some bridges or 'telling them like it is' but knowing this would blow away any future relationship with them. However, they must pick up my anger with them but my anger is actually hiding my grief at the loss of them and our parents and we don't 'do' vulnerable emotions in the family, making me already put down for being too expressive already.

Brass, yes my bro. does see himself as important now and a pattern is being repeated here that was played out between our parents, where one was in the media eye and the other knew them as the flawed character at home and resented their 'fame'

My sister is also - in her profession - high profile in the media. Ironically, it was always thought that I would be the one in the public eye but I seem not to have such a need for this and my theory is that because I felt most loved of all the children in the family, I have less need to be loved by strangers/ the public....oh dear... now I'm psychobabbling myself I guess!

One clear thing is that I DO find it hard to accept that we're not close and in contact with each other in the way that I'd like. Eg this w/e, one of my twins is ill again (there's a health scare going on that I've posted about on another topic but that's v worrying and we're waiting for his hospital appointment). I emailed my sibs this morning
to let them know what's happening and also - so as not to sound just depressing and worried, included more chatty news.

Typically, neither has even bothered to reply - which is normal for them...and yes, I can see how I must be coming across here again as angry with them and 'the victim'. I'm trying just to get on with the day and manage alone but I could have really done with some support or even just an email reply and can't understand why they don't respond to something I'd respond to immediately.

I expect that the real issue is that I miss phone calls to my late parents at w/es and their interest in my life and concerns and there's no one now in my life like that anymore. Also, my bro. is married, so must turn to his wife for most of his needs and my sis. is dating like mad, following a divorce from the 19 yr long marriage to her first ever boyfriend. So they don't 'need' me like I feel I need them.

tabouleh, I remember you from that other thread and thank you for contacting me. I need to think about whether or not I feel comfortable emailing you off MN and will get back to you on this but many thanks for the offer

no probs - you can always set up an "anonymous" email like I've done or set up to receive messages on Mumsnet (go to myMumsnet - email options - set to CAT messages from other users - YES)

Hi Solo2, I'm always amazed at peoples close siblings relationships in adulthood because it's something I don't have, I'm one of three and it's always been difficult. I'm the one in our family that demands space and distance, it doesn't mean it's any easier though. I wouldn't assume they don't feel the pain of the situation just because they are the ones backing away. Sometimes it's the only thing to do.

I've always relied on having really good friends, and these friends are with me now into adulthood, two I consider to be more my real sisters than the one I cannot have a relationship with.

I think as an earlier post said, if everyone is very similar they are more likely to get on. Also some families encourage sibling fighting (mine did) so that the children never come together against the parents.

I used to be close to my brother, he's had a lot of problems and I used to look out for him, but like yours, he tends to be like a volcano and it's just too much for me now and I don't want it around my children.

It's sad of course, but I would give people space if they need it. Sometimes friends can be better than family.

The situation is clearly complicated and there is a lot of water under the bridge.

Personally, I would write a letter to each of them simply saying:

"Dear Brother/Sister, I really value our family and I try to keep in touch as best I can. I would like to hear from you more and see you more. However, much of the time, I feel fobbed off so I am wondering whether you have some sort of problem with me and whether you would like me not to contact you anymore."

I know it's really blunt, but you don't seem to be having any luck with other methods. You don't seem to have much to lose by doing this.

Finally, I wonder whether your brother and sister see much of eachother. If they do, it would seem that they may have a problem with you. If they don't, it would seem that neither of them seem to care much about the family.

Thanks. Yellowcircle, I can see the potential of letters to the sibs but I can also vividly imagine their responses! Bro would literally gag and think, "There she goes again! How melodramatic!" in ahis patronising voice. With my sis., about a year ago, I said to her on the phone that I'd really like more contact with her and to see her more. this was at a time when I phoned her every w/e almost but she was always 'too busy' to talk much or at all and never, ever, ever phones or phoned me.

She very clearly and without malice said that she was totally fine that we didn't have much contact, that I needn't phone her ever, that she didn't feel any need to see me or talk on the phone and that clearly we were different in this way - as we both acknowledge we are in many ways.

On the one hand, it was good to get a v clear reply from her and on the other hand, I felt gutted that she was wanting so much detachment from me. So i stopped the regular w/e calls and now only v v occasionally dare phone her and she's always always too busy. needless to say, she never phones back and never wants to meet up.

However, there's even LESS contact between her and our bro. They never got on at all and I was the go-between between each of them (as was also my role between my parents). Sometimes, my bro stays overnight at hers if he's working where she lives but they've set up this 'business arrangement' that he pays her a fee to do this and more often than not, they don't actually see each other at all as she'll be out when he arrives, then he'll be asleep when she returns and gone before she's up the next day or even when she's in, after opening the door to him, she goes back to her office and that's the last she'll see of him at all.

He and I once talked about how strange and difficult it is when you visit our sis. and the one thing that sometimes unites us is to talk about the difficulties with our older sis and how unique a person she is.

So we seem to be a strange and divided family. My late father had virtually no contact from his bros for decades and didn't go to their funerals when they died and my late mother was completely estranged from her entire family, after marrying our father and only got back in touch with them when her 3 children left home.

I seem to be unique in the family, wanting connection, even more so now I have children who'd also love contact with their family. My persistence over the years is probably the only reason my sis and bro have had any contact at all and of course when our parents were alive, it brought us all together. But now they're gone, there's nothing keeping us attached.

I've had bad luck with friends, seashore but totally agree I need more. Best female friend returned to her home country 16 yrs ago. Next best female friend committed suicide 11 yrs ago. Newer and absolute best female friends - one of whom 'came out to me' as being in love with tthe other one - and both who were going to help me in so many ways once I had my twins, suddenly decided they couldn't support my single mum status and moved away and stopped all contact (they had unresolved issues about children without fathers).

Newer acquaintances made since having children are not at the level I really want/ need and I have so little time for friedns and that whole process of developing the connection....(se other posts about managing time and being single mum runnign fulltime business alone, rising at 4.30am every day).

I guess that's another reason why I long for my family again but yes, you are SO right. I need to find others to fill the gaps.

Hi Solo2, sorry your having such a tough time, it worries me for my own children's relationships (3 yrs and 8 mths) when you say this pattern of enstrangment is following throughout your family. I'm so concerned that my children will grow up to love and support each other. I maintain a distance from my family to protect them from difficult and often cruel behaviour. I'm sorry you've had bad luck with friends, there is a lot of luck involved and everyone has times when they feel alone so try not to feel it's just you.

If you really want to persist with sibs, maybe the thing to do it decide which one would be more open, and arrange a time to have a short and frank chat. Explain that you are finding it tough and that you miss your parents which you feel kept you altogether. Keep it very simple, maybe just aim at trying to get one or two points across. Most people have a heart in there somewhere, even if years of family stress has eroded it, be humble and honest, just say you feel you need a friend and since you are sis/bro could you be friends at least for a while and see how it goes.

Families gather so much past grievences, you would have to be really calm and focused to get either of these two out of the woodwork and into your life in any real way. I suppose they would have to feel that there is something in it for them, they both sound very busy, but everyone needs friends and fun.

Good luck.

Tabouleh, I have emailed you directly and had no reply and see you've withdrawn your messages - all but one - from this thread. I'm concerned about this and wonder if you could contact me on the email address I sent you, to clarify things? Many thanks. I wonder if you had mistaken my family for one you know in RL or if there's a complicated difficulty in contacting me and revealing who you are? As you can imagine, I'm slightly paranoid about your cryptic suggestion that you know my family - and of course I have a duty to protect their identity - this being about my subjective experience of things and not necessarily theirs. Do get in touch to allay my fears.

Seashore, I've made it a key factor to try to keep my sons' relationship with each other as close as possible. As they're so different from each other, I don't know how their lives will pan out and whether they'll go v separate ways. But they're fully aware of the sadness I've felt about my siblings detachment from me and I often say to them, "No matter how diffreent you are or what different lifestyles and beliefs you might have to each other, always keep in touch with each other and love each other". Who knows whether or not this will work but i do hope so.

solo2 really sorry my email didn't get to you yesterday. I have replied to you this morning and will write a longer reply this evening. (BTW - I just asked for my post to be deleted to remove my email address - as you now have it.)

Hi Tabouleh

I haven't received any emails from you yet. Could you please try to email me again and hopefully it'll get through this time? Many thanks for getting back in touch.

Have just sent a test email to check its working and am writing a proper one. Are you around?