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Original poster

Opinions on a scenario needed please

35 replies

tullytwo · 03/03/2010 11:19

Not sure if this is in the right topic but couldnt think of a better one so here goes.

I have a scenario that I would appreciate opinions on-it isnt about me but I am too close emotionally to it to be un biased.

A new girl at school in a new country. Pretty naive, lonely and not very confident-just turned 15.

Gets a little crush on a popular older boy and 'think' word gets back to him that she likes him.

So one night at a disco he approaches her by the bathrooms, near a fire exit. Think she had drunk alcohol but was not drunk iykwim. Not sure what was said but they end up outside under a sort of bleachers thing up against a pillar.

They kiss and without any talking he proceeds to have sex with her twice. She was a virgin. Nothing was said and she is horrifed at what is happening but literally cant talk or believe it is happening. Again dont think there is any talking but they go back inside and never speak again. Word gets round as to what occurred but obv the opinion is it was mutual as no one else knows the details and she never tells anyone else.

Hope that all makes sense-dont want to lead you into an opinion so I hope there is enough there for you to form one as to what you feel about what happened-is it just one of those things?

OP posts:
NicknameTaken · 03/03/2010 11:23

I think you could call it rape (although you'd probably never get a conviction).

ginnny · 03/03/2010 11:25

No its not just one of those things, it all sounds a bit sinister. I'm wondering why didn't she say anything - was there a language difference?
I personally would call it rape, but would be hard to prove as if she didn't say anything then I guess he could say he took that to be consent.
That's a really sad story Tully

nickytwotimes · 03/03/2010 11:26

Yep, you could call it rape.

Naive and lonely girl would find it hard to speak up.

You would never get a conviction though.

GypsyMoth · 03/03/2010 11:27

i wouldnt say 'rape'...maybe taken advantage of,but you dont always have a conversation and discussion prior to swx do you? you dont both verbally agree and then get on with it.

think its more the case of one thing leading to another....more details required though....

skidoodle · 03/03/2010 11:33

"he proceeds to have sex with her twice"

?

it all hinges on this

she was there and fully conscious, so in what way was he "having sex with her" without her involvement?

skidoodle · 03/03/2010 11:34

I'd be very wary of calling a teenage boy a rapist in circumstances where he could have no idea there was any question over the girl's consent.

Original poster
tullytwo · 03/03/2010 11:35

Thanks guys-is good to have others opinions.

No language difference she says she just felt frozen-completely removed from her body and unable to speak.

Am presuming he must have realised she was a virgin due to the amount of blood after.

He was older-2 years above in school so am assuming he was 18/19 at the time-not sure if that makes a difference.

What more details would you want TBB-in case I can supply them.

OP posts:
skidoodle · 03/03/2010 11:36

If he is two years above her in school and she is 15, then surely he is 17?

Aussieng · 03/03/2010 11:42

Very sorry for the girl concerned.

Re rape, I think there is a difference in the criteria required to determine whether someone has been raped compared to determining whether someone is a rapist.

Someone is raped where that someone is put into a position of having sex without her consent.

Someone is a rapist where they put someone else into a position of having sex without that other person consenting and they are aware that the other person does not consent to the sex.

I'm not sure the boy could be called a rapist in this case - I'm not sure you could say that there was the necessary awareness of lack of consent but this does not lessen the trauma for the girl or remove that fact that she was put into a position of having sex without consenting to it.

mrsboogie · 03/03/2010 11:42

This is a very very common scenario. Very similar type thing happened to a number of my close friends when we were teenagers. Girl is too shy/shocked or doesn't know what to say and he carries on regardless. She feels like she may have been raped but doesn't know because she did nothing to stop him. He won't feel like her raped her at all because she didn't try to stop him.

You could call it rape but there isn't much point wondering what to call it. There would be nothing to be done about it (unless the girl's father was handy with his fists)

This is why girls need to be educated and very confident about boundaries and what they will and won't accept and how it is ok to make a fuss.

Another girl may have fought or screamed or, even, thought that this how virginity is lost and thought no more about it.

skidoodle · 03/03/2010 11:46

"This is why girls need to be educated and very confident about boundaries and what they will and won't accept and how it is ok to make a fuss."

amen

interesting aussieng

Original poster
tullytwo · 03/03/2010 11:47

No he would have been 18 at least-different cut off dates here.

V interesting what you say Aussieng-is a viewpoint I hadnt thought thru fully and yes I agree mrsboogie think it does happen a lot and thats why I am wondering if she needs to 'get over it' as it were and just chalk it up.

OP posts:
NicknameTaken · 03/03/2010 11:51

Legally, the question is whether the male had a "reasonable belief" that she consented (although if it happened in a different country,the law might be different).

mrsboogie · 03/03/2010 11:53

hmmm that is interesting. She was raped but he isn't necessarily a rapist. I can kind of see that.

He took her silence for consent. He didn't know she was a virgin 'til after. Although that fact mayhave given him pause for thought.

If he grows up to be a decent man he may look back and decide that what he did was wrong.

Of course knowing how young she was, and being that much older than her, he should have been a bit more proactive about making sure she was ok with what was happening.

perhaps that is something boys need to be educated about.

mrsboogie · 03/03/2010 11:59

well, to be blunt she does need to chalk it up and make sure that she doesn't let this happen to her again but at the same time she could possibly have been damaged by it. It depends on the girl. She might develop self esteem issues over it which might manifest in her behaviour. Or she might not.

Her parents, if they know about it, might want to consider whether she needs some counselling to work through her feelings or some help with assertiveness.

skidoodle · 03/03/2010 12:03

18 is not that much older than 15. they're both still at school.

why are we assuming he realised she was a virgin? it might not have been obvious.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 03/03/2010 12:05

Isn't it statutory rape anyway? 15 year olds aren't considered old enough to consent, surely?

Poor girl.

And yes, boys need to be educated about positive consent.

SoupDragon · 03/03/2010 12:08

"Legally, the question is whether the male had a "reasonable belief" that she consented "

Except at 15 she is below the age of consent (in the UK) I thought that made it statutory rape.

jammietart · 03/03/2010 12:09

what's the age of consent where this girl lives?

Its rape. It sounds horrid. Poor girl.

jammietart · 03/03/2010 12:11

cross posted. Do we have statutory rape in the UK?

SoupDragon · 03/03/2010 12:13

I don't know if it's called that or "unlawful sex with a minor" or something similar.

NicknameTaken · 03/03/2010 12:14

Oops, yes, forgot the age of consent aspect.

SoupDragon · 03/03/2010 12:15

"A charge of unlawful sexual intercourse will normally be appropriate if a girl consents in fact to intercourse but she is under the statutory ages in sections 5 and 6 of the Sexual Offences Act 1956."

SoupDragon · 03/03/2010 12:15

(although whether she actually consented or not from a legal POV I don't know)

jammietart · 03/03/2010 12:18

Either way in answer to your question 'is it just one of those things' I would say no and she should take it further but carefully so as I imagine it is the sort of experience that could stay with her for the rest of her life.