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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

wwifn...are you about...

53 replies

AnyFucker · 23/02/2010 20:19

if you come on this evening, could you possibly revisit this thread ?

a poster (K) is in need of your wisdom, if you think she is ready for it

not sure myself, see what you think

you will need to scroll down to almost the end

OP posts:
Karmann · 24/02/2010 19:01

Me too! You have all made me feel so much better today.

As I said earlier, I will find the courage to post soon I hope.

On a lighter note, and this made me laugh today, stood in a queue and 'Stand by Your Man' came on the radio. I laughed so much - how ironic!

AnyFucker · 24/02/2010 19:03

ha-ha karmann, very ironic < grits teeth >

I am glad you are feeling a bit better today

OP posts:
AuntieMaggie · 24/02/2010 19:15

I haven't read the other thread (will do in a mo) but just wanted to say that WhenwillIfeelnormal talks a lots of sense and gives a lot of good advice. She helped me in the aftermath of finding out about DP's 'affair' and talked sense rather than just telling me to get rid of him like so many people did.

I didn't get rid of him, we are still working through it, and each day things get better.

I think she also recommended a book called "not just friends" for me which I bought straight away and helped me make sense of everything.

So thank you WhenwillIfeelnormal for your help and advice when I needed it and good luck Karmann.

Karmann · 24/02/2010 19:20

I think that's my fear about posting AuntieMaggie - I don't want to hear all the get rid of him stuff. I want to know about dealing with it.

I have ordered the Not Just Friends book but have apparently ordered an e-book which I have no idea what to do with.

AuntieMaggie · 24/02/2010 19:29

Only skimmed through the other thread but I gather that you've been married for a while.

I would ignore those people that are quick to say get rid of him - IMO if you can do that so easily then you don't have a lot anyway.

I had my 'meltdown' about 6 weeks or so after finding out.

One of the first things that I read in that book was that you shouldn't decide whether to leave or stay within the first 3 months after discovery. We are just coming up to that now and I would agree with that.

I would read it, get him to read it, get counselling both for yourself and as a couple (we're still waiting for this part).

You would be amazed at the people around you that have had to deal with affairs, as I soon found out after coincidentally only confiding in 2 friends that I really trusted only to find out they had both gone through similar but not told anyone.

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 24/02/2010 19:45

Only just read some of this and read your post AF

just love that and please will you be my mummy too, I really do need one.... It's almost worth a new thread that one...

AnyFucker · 24/02/2010 19:47

lol @ IYHAYKI

OP posts:
IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 24/02/2010 19:50

And Karmann, hope you're feeling okish this eve. I can imagine exactly what's going through your mind, I've still got some awful stuff going through mine and I really reeled (is that the right word) at that awful, other horrid horrid post too.

Having been to hell and back after a year's deception and still suffering from bl** awful fallout I just cannot believe that grown men and women can behave as they do at times. I'm going to buy the book as well now!

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 24/02/2010 19:54

But hmmm, just checking, WWIFN, is it only really for those who end up back with their DP's or have a chance of doing so? Mine has gone for good - he's still with OW and TBH good riddance as they say (sorry to hijack thread, I have shut up now)

countingto10 · 24/02/2010 20:04

IYHAYKI, I think whether you stay with your H or seperate, we all still have the same feelings of betrayal, grief, sadness, anger etc. I'm not sure what is the easier path - still on the journey of recovery and healing with my DH.

I'm sure this thread would support anyone going through those feelings.

The book is very good.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 24/02/2010 20:18

Ifyou'rehappy Just Good Friends has a specific chapter entitled Healing Alone. I think that will help you enormously, but honestly, the book is just such a great read in terms of understanding affairs. It challenges so many of the myths that are peddled about infidelity.

I think it's essential reading for counsellors, although the one I saw (briefly!) hadn't read it and wasn't planning to. If it helps ladies, don't go near a counsellor who has limited experience of treating clients recovering from infidelity - and personally now, I wouldn't see one who hadn't read that book. My H's counsellor ticked both boxes, but couldn't see me as well, which I understood.

Aunt Maggie - how lovely to hear from you. Glad you're still working through things. I remember your thread so well. Would be great to hear more about your recovery.

Karmann - how wonderful that you were able to have a wry laugh today at that song. Have any of the rest of you found that music sets you off again?

Oh and AF, given that you (like me) have taken a bashing today on this board, can I just say that even though this has never happened to you, you are brilliant at understanding the hurt and confusion - and you really care about people. Your radar is also astonishingly accurate!

Ironically enough, it was my ability to laugh out loud today at a poster claiming I was a fake that convinced me how much better I am these days. There was a time when that would have really bruised me.

AnyFucker · 24/02/2010 20:29

oh shucks, wwifn < coy blush >

I am a big girl now

I had to laugh though, that poster thought she had found my weak spot. I am sure she would have gone right ahead and plundered it, given half the chance....

OP posts:
countingto10 · 24/02/2010 20:29

Re the music Whenwill, unfortunately there was a plethora (sp?) of songs about when DH upped and left me for OW, James Morrison and Nellie Furtado "Broken Strings" - very painful lyric, Daniel Merryweather "Painted it Red", Enrique "Taking back my love" and funnily enough, my DH and I were listening to Jonny Cash's version of "One" by U2 - extremely emotional the way he sang it. Me and my DH were both very screwed up be events that appeared to be overtaking us.

Fortunately we had a very good therapist at Relate (who took no prisoners and whose husband had had an affair for 7 years during her marriage). She got me and my DH to address both our issues and my DH address his problems etc.

Can I just say thank you as well Whenwill, your very insightful posts have really helped me over the last (horrendous) 12 months. DH is taking me away this weekend to hopefully replace a pretty vile memory with a good one .

akhems · 25/02/2010 10:52

How you doing today Karmann? Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you xx

Karmann · 25/02/2010 11:01

Thank you. Much better today thanks. Just had first session with counsellor and I think it will help although I realise it will not be a quick fix. That would be lovely wouldn't it - one session and a miracle cure.

It struck me today that although the title of this post doesn't explain what it's about, everyone who has commented on it has been so understanding. It's been a friendly and caring exchange between everyone who understands what it's like - most having been in the same crappy boat!

Have copied your e-mail address from previous post. Really appreciate you asking how I am. x

gonnabehappy · 25/02/2010 13:52

Pleased to hear that you feel a little better, although perhaps by the time I write this you will be feeling shitty again! You will start to feel better ore of the time though I promise. Trouble is in low bits it is like telling the parent of a sleepless child that one day they will sleep through the night!

Don't expect too much of yourself...and if your husband is around (sorry I don't know if you have posted more elsewhere) don't let him expect too much of you either.

Take care and do something for yourself this evening - reaching out more to some of these fantastic posters here might help. Don't be alone.

AuntieMaggie · 25/02/2010 18:07

Glad to hear you're feeling better today. As gonnabehappy says if your other half is still around be honest with him about how you're feeling if you feel low and don't let him expect too much of you.

We are doing well thank you WWIFN. I've just finished my individual counselling and I don't really want to go too much into detail but DP has been getting the support he needed for a condition that has been ignored in recent years (by him and doctors). I am hoping that this was the kick up the bum we both needed to make sure this is what we want tand to act like it and not take each other for granted. We get on much better these days and he is more grown up. I know it's far from being over, but I just want to get on with the couples counselling now which we are both keen on to help us work through this together and make sure it never happens again. Unfortunatly we're on a waiting list...

Little gems keep popping up which have surprised me, like him dropping into conversation the other night that he contacted the samaritans during the aftermath of his confession. I never knew that, had no idea, but reiterates to me that he cares about how much he hurt me.

I got a lot of flack on here when I first found out for even considering staying with him, but I'm glad that I listened to my head, you and the people that know us.

Karmann · 25/02/2010 18:59

I was so glad today that when I came back from counselling he asked me how it went and took on board what had been said. We managed to talk about it which to me was a breakthrough because he has always wanted to just brush it under the carpet and pretend it never happened.

The counsellor was of the opinion that he is probably suffering from PTSD (which I think he is too) and has never addressed the terrible things he witnessed. Even now, after 25 years, he talks about it in his sleep.

It does upset me when I see people just say 'leave him". Life is not so black and white - there are many grey areas inbetween and love doesn't just disappear. Even my mum, who appears to be very similar to WWIFN, has said to me that this is not worth breaking up for. She has seen me through so much.

I am drawing strength from this positive thread.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 25/02/2010 21:43

Karmann - put great store by what your Mum says. She's got your best interests at heart, knows you both and is in a far better position than us to judge. Like any Mum, I'm sure she just wants you to be happy. Has your H chatted to her about this at all?

Glad the counselling went well. Something you might want to think about too, is something I recalled from the PTSD research I did - and strangely enough, a similar thing cropped up in my H's counselling...

When someone has undergone trauma, if it isn't dealt with properly at the time, they can develop an ability to "block it out". It's a survival technique that serves them well in the short term and allows them to cope with normal life.

However, if the incident isn't talked through and dealt with, the person can find themselves using this strategy to "block" other things out later in life - and almost pretend they are not happening.

I don't know if this resonates at all with your situation?

Karmann · 26/02/2010 09:32

No he hasn't spoken to my mum - he says he's far to ashamed and just can't face her. We've seen her since and talk about anything but this. Think I will give her a call today since I have backed off from her a bit. She does understand me very well which is why she hasn't pushed me to talk about it. It always seems to be me who needs rescuing by her. My dad was violent to me but not my siblings and I struggled to deal with that.

What you say about PTSD does resonate. He's even said how he manages to block everything out and yesterday he said he has boxes for everything and lifts the lid every now and then. He said that maybe it's time to throw them away. He can so easily pretend things aren't happening. I actually saw this conversation as progress if that makes sense?

I can't force him to see anyone and I won't push it but hopefully if he sees the progress I will make, and I will make progress, he may think differently.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 26/02/2010 11:39

Poor you Karmann, it sounds like you've had a lot of horrible stuff to deal with in your life.

There is a wonderful poster called Maturer who speaks eloquently about the boxes and lids. She says that her H, like a lot of people, were "compartmentalisers" so they were able to switch off from the affair when with their primary partner - and switch off from home when with the OW.

I used to think my H was one of these - but actually he wasn't, especially once he'd been physically unfaithful. That doesn't make him any better though, Karmann. In fact, the downside of him not being a compartmentaliser was behaving like a shit when he was at home - and actually it is this behaviour he still cannot forgive about himself. It affected everyone and everything.
Had he been a compartmentaliser, life would have been happier (in an illusory kind of way) than it was.

Nevertheless, the "pluses" of a non-compartmentaliser are that they feel guilt (and this is what drives the deflection on to others in their life) and they do tend to "shield" the marriage to the affair partner - not disparaging the spouse or the marriage to her.

Probably the most dangerous situation is the non-compartmentaliser who convinces him/herself that s/he is in love with the affair partner. A compartmentaliser in love still gives to the marriage, whereas their counterpart does not.

I think it would be wise to open up to your Mum. Mine has been terrific - and wonderfully supportive and non-judgemental of my H, whom she also loves dearly. It took me a long time to tell her any of this - she is in her seventies and a terrible worrier, plus she had some health issues of her own when this all blew up for us, so I didn't want to burden her. As time wore on with this enormous secret between us though, I felt us growing apart. I'm so glad I corrected that. Almost as soon as I'd spoken to her, I felt better.

I do think it's a good sign your H is sufficiently self-aware about his tendency to block things. I also wanted to tell you that my H used to be the sort of person who was completely resistant to talking to counsellors. However, about 2 months after discovery day, we were getting stuck - and our sticking point was his ability to deny what 99.9% of the population would have thought obvious. He had also learned how to block unpleasant truths - a survival mechanism from his childhood that had served him well then - but was totally inappropriate - and in fact damaging in adulthood.

I didn't insist on counselling - I just said that I thought he needed some professional help to get him to see what he was doing. He took himself off, did the research himself and came back to me with an announcement of an appointment with a psychotherapist. Fortunately, he chose wisely and by and large, she was very good for him - and us, in consequence.

He freely admits now that at the time, he was very sceptical about its benefits, and saw it as a "sign" to me that he was committed to saving our marriage. Given his previous reluctance to share feelings, I saw it as one too. In the event, he now says it was the best thing he could have done - and honestly Karmann, the changes in him are astonishing. He now has no difficulty expressing feelings, is far more self-aware and emotionally intelligent. Consequently all his relationships have improved. His staff adore him, our friends have noticed a massive difference, he is closer to everyone in the family (except the emotionally retarded ones, who view him with a bit of suspicion, I think!) and he is a happier person all round.

Men in traditionally "male" occupations often have to learn to suppress feelings and emotions in order to survive the brutality of the organisational culture. What might be regarded as resilience at work (and therefore helpful) doesn't always transfer well to private lives.

Do you feel brave enough yet to make a request that he does see a therapist?

If you've got the Not Just Friends book, can you ask that he reads that too? If you're struggling with the E version, I'd nip onto Amazon or E Bay and just order the hard copy. It is amazing.

Hope you're feeling stronger still today.

Karmann · 26/02/2010 14:17

Sometimes I wondered if it would have been better if he wasn't a compartmentaliser because I would have seen the signs. There were absolutely none. It's interesting to read your views because it makes sense. Our lives carried on as always and we had many happy times.

I do hope that he goes along the route of some kind of help - he would benefit greatly from this just as your H has. In particular with regard to his relationships with others. He is a complete workaholic and can come across as quite blunt. I strongly believe that his work has been a major factor in his infidelity in so much as it was his escapism.

Another thing about him is that he's always kicked against authority - parents, teachers the army etc. (he only joined the army to get a trade and didn't expect to be going to war) and I think in a way he views something within a relationship to be an authority. I don't think I'm explaining it very well but hope you understand what I'm trying to say. Maybe a childlike trait of 'you're not going to tell me what to do'.

I am going to chat to my mum. She does know about it but I haven't, as yet, really talked to her even though it was 6 months ago that I found out. She is a wonderful mum and gives so much of herself to others. She is a Samaritan and Bereavement Counsellor but of course is emotionally involved with me.

Once I've had a few more sessions with my counsellor I'll broach the subject with him seeing one again.

akhems · 27/02/2010 09:06

Hi Karmann, how are you doing girlie? x

Karmann · 27/02/2010 11:27

Hi akhems. Good to hear from you. Doing ok thanks, has helped already seeing the counsellor.

Not spending so much time dwelling but not yet functioning normally at home! By that I mean I can't be bothered to do anything! Need to get a job really but not ready for it yet.

How are things with you?

akhems · 27/02/2010 12:15

I'm ok, still unsettled.

OW is being a bit of a bunny boiler, keeps texting and phoning and trying to add him on fb and stuff like that. He resigned and left his job on Thursday because she would stalk him around the building there too.

I won't lie, it's not been easy so far and I'm still wondering if I'm doing the right thing but he does seem to be making a huge effort even though he doesn't get it right all the time. He's even been reading some of the articles I was given by the wonderful women here which I emailed to him about life after infidelity and said he's learnt a lot from them about himself. Still waiting for the shirley glass book to arrive.

He's thinking about getting himself some therapy and I'm wondering about that for myself too, with maybe some kind of couples counselling in the future if we get that far, which is still by no means guaranteed, but we're trying very hard.

I'm glad you're feeling a bit better, I understand about the not functioning properly, I still feel like that a lot of the time. I was thinking about getting a job but I don't think I'm quite there yet either, I'm not even functioning very well in the voluntary role I have atm

I just hold on to the thought that it will get better one way or the other and I repeat MLB's mantra of "I will Love and Protect myself" very often and it does seem to help. I recite it when I'm going to sleep at night and it works!

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