Marriage - does everybody lose the magic?

[dejags]

Hi I am not new to the boards, but don't usually post... as I don't often have better advice than the regular posters give. I generally just lurk and think to myself "wow that could be me".

To sum up my situation - I have been married for 5 years with one DS and my marriage has just developed into (looking for a better word) - well nothingness. We eat, sleep work and discuss DS, beyond that we have an ok social life - mostly we socialise on our own. This spectacular indifference is now starting to really bother me - I can't decide if this is the way all marriages go and that I will have to just get over myself and accept my lot or whether my marriage is lacking something that will never return and I need to start thinking about more drastic measures.

To those of you in long term partnerships - how are things for you? Am I being unrealistic to expect some spark?

Where oh where did that magic go?

Hi dejags

I think this happens to most of us to a certain extent. My dp and I work around each other which means that some weeks, we don't see alot of each other, ie, while I'm at work dp has ds and vice versa. By the end of the week, after giving our remaining time to doing household stuff, we're both knackered and tend to fall in a heap on the settee. Dp has also got a lot of other interests (work related stuff) which I do support, but this means even less time for one another. We've been together 6 years and at the beginning things were magical. Now, there isn't alot of magic BUT we have a very solid dependable relationship with complete trust. I think you have to make time for each other, however tired you are, and try to spend time together as a couple, although this is hard for us due to lack of babysitters.

However, if this is really getting to you, I would suggest talking to your husband - does he think the same, is he putting any effort in? It may be that he simply doesn't realise that its getting to you. Lets face it, we have to spell things out for men!! There have been times when we have had completely opposing views about things and I've thought dp doesn't really 'understand' me, but judging by my sisters/female friends they have exactly the same problem.

Anyway, good luck.........

Hi dejags - I think many people on here will be able to relate to how you're feeling! was married for 11 years, and, yes, spectacular indifference is a good way of putting it. With the benefit of hindsight, I can see where it went wrong: it is all too easy after having children to let your relationship with each other go down the pan, especially if you're constricted by financial problems and general lack of a support network (as was true in my own case). It's a cliche, but it does take conscious effort to make a relationship work and to keep a spark between you. It's really, really important to make time for each other and to make time to have fun together. It's so easy not to bother when so many other demands seem more important, but it should be considered a high priority for your own emotional wellbeing and the health of your relationship. Make time to talk with each other about yourselves, not just DS. Are you able to go out for a meal together once a week and leave DS with a friend or family member for a few hours? How does your DH feel about this - have you talked to him about how you feel? I know this is all obvious stuff, but I have been there and I know how easy it is to slide into complacency and indifference. No time to write any more, but am sure there'll be plenty of excellent advice from everyone, as always! Good luck - it's not too late to rekindle the spark!

Hi dejags. I've been with my dh for nearly 14 years, we got married after 6 years and had a baby after 13!

We used to have a very active social life but of course like everyone else it has suffered as a result of having a baby. We always used to go out together, never really got into that girls and boys nights out as our group of mates always hung out together, we even ended up all together at the end of the stag/hen nights!

We have made a real effort since our dd was born to still go out on a Saturday night. We also try and see people during the day one day of the weekend at least. We try and leave dd with our parents very occasionally and go away for a night to a hotel to keep the romance/passion alive.

The spark is most definitely still there. I think we're lucky in that a lot of our interest coincide (wine, footy, eating out etc) and we still don't really feel the need to go out separately, though we are always encouraging each other to do so.

I think the trick is to remember the little romantic gestures (I still get flowers at least once a month), to keep telling each other that you love each other and to remember that children are a part of your life, not your whole life.

If you can't get a babysitter, how about a candlelit dinner followed by a candlelit bath (I am a big fan of candles, they are v romantic).

And for what it's worth, if you've got trust and respect you won't have to try very hard to get that sparkle back.

Best of luck

dejags, in a word, yes!

You get in a rut & it gets very very boring. After a brief affair on my part 10 years ago we decided we needed to put more effort into our relationship & try to always have a week away on our own every year. It's amazing what a recharge that is. (But of course we can only do it because the in-laws are good enough to have the kids).

We've just had a long weekend up north, which was very relaxing. 1 child went to MIL, the others were left under the care of DD (17) for the first time- all survived, even if the house was a tip.

Ditto now they are older we try to go to the cinema once a month or so, on our own, & TBH have ended up with both of us driving to pick up 1 child from somewhere just so that we've got a few minutes to have a proper conversation!

Not to say I don't often look at a young bloke & think Hmmm

I have to agree with all the others. Its way too easy (especially once you have children) for your partnership to take a back seat. I have been with dh for over 13 years (5 years married in 2 weeks time) and we're expecting our second child in under 10 weeks now. So it came as an enormous shock to discover that he felt bored. I still wonder if he's going through a midlife crisis however he's talked about it and now we're actively doing something about it. We're trying hard to find ways to "excite" our lives - a little difficult when you're 30weeks pregnant and just about to go on maternity leave. Nevertheless I'm glad he spoke up and I think you should too - although go gentle and be understanding that he might be a little shocked.

I don't think you're being unrealistic to expect spark - not at all because if so then to be honest why bother staying together. How boring! But I do think that keeping the spark takes effort and finding the energy/time and sometime money for that effort can sometimes be bloody hard!

DH and I have tried hard to find things that he enjoys doing. For instance at 6.5 months pregnant I got on a bike for the first time in over a year and as a family we went for what was a lovely bike ride. Also since we're coming up to our 5th wedding anniversary we've arranged for my mother to look after dd and we're off to Brighton for three days (two nights) to spend quality time together. We're doing other things but I hope the two examples are enough to show you the different ends of the spectrum.

But whatever you do, when you speak to your dh you must stress that you still love him. Trust me its a really difficult thing to handle - I should know!

Good luck.

SamboM I am interested in your point about romantic gestures, like giving flowers. Surely your partner gives you flowers BECAUSE in your case the love/spark thing is still there, as opposed to giving flowers to KEEP it there?
When I heaar the advice about making the effort to doing romantic things with your husband to keep love alive, isn't the sad fact that those of us with nothingness don';t actually want a romantic weekend away with our husbands of all people (how depressing)? And making the effort to go out together only reinforces how little a spark there actually is?

Personally I have stopped expecting a spark. There aint one I'm afrid and I don't know of any couples where there still is.

It is unrealistic to expect the feelings of the first few months to stay forever but feelings change and I prefer alot of the new ones. 9But not all!!

Fair enough Falalla.

We do work at our marriage though. We try to talk about things and not to lie to each other or keep things from each other. I just know I've got such a good thing that I don't want to lose it. I wish everyone else felt the same way.

I do know that if it wasn't there I would have to think seriously about what to do next. I don't think I could live without it.

I'll have been married for 4 years this summer (together 6). I realise my experience might not be helpful to everyone, but I hope it does encourage somebody.
Every day I spend with dh gets better than the one before. He phones me at least twice a day from work to tell me he loves me (and find out what ds is up to). He's certainly not into big romantic gestures, but he's always there for me and always trustworthy.
My very shaky theory on this is that when we met through friends one summer, we lived hundreds of miles apart and so we had to get to know each other properly by letters and phonecalls. We saw each other every 8 weeks or so for 2 years, but during that time learned to talk and talk. We had to make the effort or just walk away.
Now we married, I think that experience has taught us to talk about everything, even the times when we're bored with life or about to explode at each other or whatever.
I don't think after x number of years there can still be a "spark" as such, that's very much a first falling in love kind of feeling.
I do think that it's definitely possible to have something far deeper than that, which is probably indefinable, but could be a feeling of security, comfort, being knitted together. I can't explain it, but it's like a tree being spliced.
I have so much sympathy for those of you whose partnerships haven't worked out, but I hope that I can encourage some into believing that not all marriages have to hit a downward spiral; they can pick up and they can be fantastic.

Thanks for your replies. On the one hand I am absolutely aware that more of an effort needs to be made but finding the time for this seems like an impossible task. Both of us work full time in demanding jobs and the toll of work, rushing to and from the childminders, shopping, cleaning and the general drudgery of life leaves me so knackered I just have this feeling that I can't be bothered. Have tried talking to DH about this but he is just as knackered as I am and either he just shrugs his shoulders or it turns into a slinging match about who does more, "I did the dishes... well I fed the rabbit and did the ironing ..." you get my drift.

In a way I feel a bit like you Fallala and that's so sad. I remember saying on my wedding day that i would never let my marriage become humdrum.... boy if I'd known then what I know now.

I have to admit that sometimes I may be at fault, secretly I have this dream that I win the lottery so I can live in peace on my own with DS and never have to argue about who cleaned the bog ever again.

Thanks again, some food for thought and a fresh perspective.

For us, the expectations have been the hardest. We've been married for 8 years, but early on I had to let him know that he needed to buy me flowers, do those "spontaneous" romantic gestures, etc, that made me happy. (uh, not quite the right word.. excited? loved? I don't know, but I needed them.) He did the things that would make him feel loved.. not in a bad way, just that no one talks about the downside to the "Do unto others.." dictum.

Now we do realize we have to go out on our own regularly. We're lucky enough to afford a "date night" weekly, but weekends on our own are very rare. But going out on your own is good, I think especially on a reqular basis. The kids are interesting, but only so much... it won't take long to run out of things to say about them, if you have to do it every week. Then you're forced into normal adult conversation. This is from my experience.. judge me as you will.

I do think it helps if he's really involved with the kids, so the talking about them isn't one sided. Plus, it runs out that much more quickly!

And (wow, I'm going to get judgments here), if you're at home with the kids, ask about his day and listen to it. His day is just as important as yours. This is from someone who can't keep a house anywhere close to clean and who refuses to iron. It's just that I'm saying people should be interested in their partner's life. It's good to know what's going on in the practical sense and the guys (using the gender neutral "guys" ) are great. Knowing them is good for me, also.

Anyway.. I'm getting a bit drunk. What is it that you like about your partner? Redo that. Even if it's not there right now. And, of course, things go up and down... unfortunately much more slowly than I'd like. Ooh, there's a rude joke there.

JJ, come to the Mars Bar, we're on the tequila (sorry to butt in)

been married 14 years - has its ups whre we fly as high as can be and downs where i could gladly commit murder and blame PMT! am not kidding

i leither love him or hate him - nothingness doesnt come into it, romance ....well no we dont have any
social life... erm we move away from family and friedns and so that is zero.

he is a great dad. he tidies house and makes my tea for when i get home if i have an evening meeting - and i do the same for him. he irons clothes and even dyes my hair with tidgey plastic gloves that break he pulls off my very smelly boots in winter and smellier trainers in summer. and its stuff like this that - when i think about it makes me go all gooey inside - its much better than a bunch of flowers from the petrol station

however get us out together and we are the sad married couple in the corner with sod all to talk about but kids and work ... is this bad - well depends on your point of view i suppose

we dont do it often - but when we do its nice

you probably have a lot going for you that you may see as ordinary - and really its not ordinary at all

Custy if the flowers were from the petrol station I'd be v pissed off!

I've been married for 30 years and I'd be very sad if our relationship was as you describe in yours, Dejags. Of course we've had ups and downs and we're not the same people as when we married, but I truly can't imagine spending my life with anyone else. Maybe the fact DH has worked away a lot of the time has helped us stay togtehr - who knows!

My DB and SIL have been married for 30 yrs too, and they still do 'lovey-dovey' things, like feed each other at mealtimes, which is cringeworthy, in my book, but if it turns them on, more power to their elbow.

Dejags, a cleaner might help you ditch some of your mundane fights - it works for me. And even though you are both v tired, I think you need to do something together otherwise it will only get worse. Get a babysitter and go out together - eat a meal in a restaurant, go and see a film to give you something to talk about apart from your ds. If you've got time to socialise separately you have time to do things together. A trip away without your ds (even for one night) can be incredibly revitalising. So can reminiscing about how you met, your honeymoon etc. With a child I do think it's worth the effort. I've been married three years but still feel quite sparky with my dh. I went out last night with friends and really, really missed him.

I thought I'd resurrect this thread and update you all. Well things have been really up and down since my first posting in June.

DH has become more and more withdrawn but does have some days when he is "normal". Sex (or lack thereof) has become a HUGE issue in his life. I don't know why but the thought of sex is appalling to me at the moment so intimacy is a huge problem. I have tried to make up for this by being close physically i.e. cuddles etc but it is never spontaineous (sp?), it always seems like an effort and never lasts more than a couple of days.

In a nutshell - DH told me today that he is not prepared to going on living like this and that we both know that we have stayed together for the last 2 years because of DS. In a way I agree with him, but I am also of the opinion that all marriages go through rocky patches and for the sake of DS we should try and weather the storm in the hope that things will get better.

He seems serious and I probably haven't even started to come to terms with the likelihood that he may not come back (he left this morning with a bag and with the exception of a few nasty text messages I haven't heard from him all day).

On the one hand I am terrified of being on my own with DS and all the responsibilities that entails but on the other hand part of me is thinking "maybe this isn't the end of the world" and that I might just be happier on my own.

I feel really low and confused and would really like to hear some stories with positive outcomes (that could mean either staying together or splitting up) - after 11 years together I find it difficult to imagine a life without DH even though it might be for the best.

So mumsnetters any advice or uplifting stories would be gratefully received.

Thanks

so sorry to hear this, dejags. i've always promised myself not to discuss the grisly details of my marriage here - but i don't think it would be breaking that to say that things have definitely been harder for us since ds arrived - not awful but much harder. if it's any help, a friend of mine, whom i thought had a rock-solid relationship, recently confided that her partner nearly left her... they are now firmly together.

my point is you are not alone if having a child/children has made life as a couple more difficult... fatigue, financial stress, having to give so much physically to your child/ren, and so many other reasons, they all take their toll.

do you want him to come back? if so, it's perhaps worth considering counselling together, so often relationships fail on "misunderstandings" which may be sorted out in the neutral environment provided by a counsellor. what is your financial situation if he goes, is it worth getting legal advice? never hurts to know these things anyway, imo.

sorry, don't have any more practical advice to add than that atm - hope someone replies with more of the specifics.

good luck.

Dejags - your original post sounds EXACTLY like me and dh. We have often said that having another child would completely ruin our marriage, because having ds has nearly made it happen many times, and I mean many.

We have been together for 15 years, and married for 4. I do think that children must bring some couples closer together, but they must have quiet and obedient children! Mine is like a mad thing, always on the go. He has to come first when awake, otherwise we hear about it. It puts a big strain on us, but we try to get out occasionally to be on our own. It is only about 3 times a year, but it does happen. We also have time out with our friends on our own, which is lovely.

It has been so long since dh and I had some really valueable time together that I am beginning to wonder if the feelings are still there. I know where you are coming from However, if you BOTH want the marriage to work, it will need effort on both your parts. Maybe the time on his own will make your dh think harder about the relationship?

If you do decide that you want him back and you both want to continue working at your marriage then perhaps a break from each other is what's needed. Maybe then you could go back to the 'courting' stage to try and rekindle the spark you once had and remind yourselves of why you fell so in love with each other in the first place. To try and be able to find some time together without your ds around would give you the opportunity to really listen to each other, maybe some councilling would help you to talk about any issues that you feel uncomfortable discussing or simply just don't talk about atall.

dejags sorry to hear about your situation but agian if you think it is worth saving then stick in there.,
I have been marries for 9 and half years and had our first dd 2years ago, we had been trying for a year things had always been abit up and down due to family issues but we were great, then this bundle arrives and then wham, i am invincible i get cuddles and kisses but sex boy do i need it i can honestly say that i has sex 10 times last year. My husband has never been eager on that, i think it has a lot to do with he has had other partners but i was a good girl and he is my first i am gagging for it. I always get reassurance that he loves me and shows me affection in other ways but it's that intamacy thing
My dd always comes first which is fine but i feel so guilty when i say lets go out and he says no what about her can't leave her blah blah he took the first year off to look after her at home.

Thing is he is a love and we have our moments together we don't fight about i have to say i have resrted to jumping on top of him now as i used to think it was my shape. These buddles do madness to your body.
But yep children will make you or break you, dd is very demanding attention seeking very funny and witty hates us talking, kids.....

Update... things aren't much better. DH has come home and is even more withdrawn than ever. He says that he is sticking around for the family holiday and after that, well "who knows".

He tells me that I make him terribly unhappy and have caused him to be withdrawn because of this problem I have with my libido (distinct lack thereof ).

Basically I just don't know what to do. I am trying to stick around for DS but at the end of the day will living with two unhappy parents make him a happy child - in my heart I know the answer to this.

DH tells me that he has a friend with a spare room and is considering moving in there. I don't know whether to take the bull by the horns and force the issue or to leave things until after our holiday and see if getting away does us good.

All in all a lot of "don't knows"

Thanks for your replies - good to know that somebody out there is listening.

dejags

dejags, ok, practicalities, don't know how this will turn out, but i strongly recommend you ascertain what your financial situation will be if he leaves. please do it, every woman should know this, imo. hope it doesn't come to that. good luck, i'm thinking of you.

Does the word 'marriage' mean anything to him at all? What about those vows he made - for better or for worse? Is he not going to try and fight for his marriage or simply give up? Is he a man or a mouse!

I have had no libido either, because I'm pregnant. It is a bit of an issue in our house as I know dh misses it, but sometimes I feel emotionally shut down and yes, even kissing and cuddling can be a huge effort. But then I'm also suffering from depression, which might be your problem too. Have a word with your GP and ask to be referred to a Community Psychiatric Nurse, they are wonderful in helping you to understand your problems and how to tackle them. Or you might want to go onto anti-depressants for a while.

Sit down and talk to your dh. Tell him the steps that you are taking to sort the situation out. Then ask him what he is willing to do in return. Once he realises that you are making an effort to change things, he might be more keen to make an effort himself. Would he go to Relate with you? If not, you can go on your own.

Sex is more important to men than to women sometimes. Sex to them is an expression of their love, they can put a lot of emotion into it. We are capable of feeling emotion in lots of other ways, so when we go off sex, it's no big deal to us. To them it's like a rejection. He needs to be reassured that you still love him. He will know if you are just making an effort, and this will hurt him more. I think it really would benefit you both to get some counselling so that you both understand each other a bit more. Him moving out will not solve the problem, that smacks of him running away from it. Book an appointment with your GP tomorrow, then tell him what you've done and ask him to meet you halfway.

I hope some of this helps you.

o dejags i feel for u, i can only imagine wot a lonely place u must b in right now... scary too. having been thru exactly wot u r feeling, having had an affair, then marrying the man i had the affair with - i can honestly say that all marriages lose their spark, that life is hard work - there's no prince on a white horse coming to carry us off to his castle (drat!) but there r far better things than sparks and daydreams... things like weathering storms and surviving yr worst nightmare coming true and looking back and realizing that while u thought things were tough then, u'v grown as a person and u'r not half bad. whether we like it or not, we all hav choices to make 24/7, and u can choose to work it out or choose to move on but moving on will, most probably, just bring u back to the same place again with sum1 new - so u might as well deal with yr marriage now and make it work. none of us realize wot the vows we make mean when we say them, our intentions r good but i dont think anyone would eva get married if we had even an inkling of wot was yet to come... but its ok because the rewards of weathering the storms are so incredible if u can just hang in there ... dont give up on him or yr marriage and dont let him give up on u ... it'll all come right in the end, u'll see xxx