i don't want to go home

[twinklesky]

I've posted a few times on before about my relationship issues with my partner. I just need some advice, I don't have anywhere else to turn

Partner is taking IDAP course, has become increasingly depressed after losing his job in December. We have money issues which are mainly my fault as I should have been in charge of finances.

Am I being stupid or is this completely unfair and tending towards falling back into the controlling tendancies that landed him in IDAP in the first place? Or am I just bitter and twisted?

He asked me to pay the virgin bill before i went to work, as we had some money from my grandmother, meant to be paying our car insurance.

I told him I didn't buy some amazing shoes today because I was saving the money for the insurance, couldn't he wait until tomorrow when I get paid?

He told me since it doesn't matter anyway, I should just pay it, and if I didn't he was going to get pissed while I was at work (and he is looking after our son) All his violence happened when he was drinking. He knows I'll do anything to avoid him drinking. He says this is 'controlling' and he knows ALL about controlling behvaiour because he's been on the course.

I paid it because I was scared he would get drunk and be abusive.

Then he said "Leave me a ciggie, since you gave the last one to the baby" I didn't give a cigarette to my son, OBVIOUSLY. I placed it on our highest shelf and whilst I was getting ready for work and OH was playing xbox, baby climbed up on to OH's back and grabbed the ciggie and snapped it in half.

Should I just let him get over the anger he has about our debt? Is he justified? WAS I being controlling?

so he's been on a perp course and you're still questionning whether it's your fault?

And you are still modifying your behaviour to prevent the abuse reoccurring.....

have you had any abuse counselling?

I doubt he's angry about the debt; I rekon he's angry he had to confront his problems and issues!

If you actually have any option to not go home, I would take it if I were you.

but what about the ds, coldtits?

so he's on a perp course and using what he's learning on it to continue to basically continue to abuse you . I think you need to speak to Women's Aid about this situation.

don't do it. your out.

Why are you still with this worthless object?

If he doesn't change during / after the course, he ain't gonna change...

This proves that fact.

I would leave if I were you.

Sweetheart, you are trying to be controlling because you are trying to keep his anger/drinking/abuse under control. This is his job, not yours. You're taking responsibility for the whole family, the finances and his issues. It's very wrong, extremely bad for you - and it's dangerous.

The course isn't working. He's blaming you for his own behaviour. You're taking the blame, when it simply isn't yours to take. I'm very sorry but you need to get yourself and your child out of his life. Your feeling that you don't want to go home? That's your survival instinct talking to you. Please listen.

So all he learnt on the course was how to be more abusive, more controlling/more manipulative/blame you!
Fucking arse!!! They never ever change these men, never ever, they dont want to, dont need to
Been there done that, still licking my wounds years later
Get out now, I promise it will be better, anything will be better !

Urgh! There is NO hope for this man.

twinkle

I do not say this at all lightly but you have to leave this abusive man of yours.
He will kill you emotionally, if not in the end physically, if you stay and he is a complete non starter as a role model for your child too.

Such courses are often a bad idea for abusive men as it can justify further their behaviour in their own warped minds. They used the knowledge gained on such things to further subjugate their partner. This is exactly what is happening here with him and you

"And you are still modifying your behaviour to prevent the abuse reoccurring..... "

I guess this is true...I must be truly pathetic. He says that I am just not letting go of the past, and while I know deep down that isn't true and what he is doing is unfair...I don't know whats wrong with me.

TotalChaos
I believe that is a common problem for the IDAP course, that it almost teaches inherant bullies how to bully and get away with it, covert abuse. Impossible to explain to anyone else, yet clearly so damaging

It'sGraceAgain
Your words ring so, so true that I've read them 50 times now.

I don't have anywhere else to go, I feel like I've come to the end of my tether and I can't continue, I just don't know what to do now...I can't win, I can't make him see, and I can't get away. I'm constantly on the verge of tears and even right now am thinking of ways to avoid having to leave work, the few moments that I have on here don't seem to give me the strength to stand up to him. I'm sick and tired and can't carry on

I agree with macdoodle.

All this course has done has enabled him be worse.

Time to get out.

Sorry x posted twinkle.

What about Women's Aid?

Do you not have any family you could temporarily stay with? Get your little DS, passports, important things and clothing and just leave.

no, you are not pathetic.

It takes the "average" woman up to 7 times to try to leave.... you are not alone, I promise.

Ring womens aid and if he does get violent or aggressive or verbal or anything you are uncomfortable with, ring 999.

Zoomy, and the others that have said that the course has made him worse...

I have out that to him a thousand times. Not just to him but to my extrememly unsupportive family who believe that I have made my bed and should now just lie in it. Apparently I should be glad that he isn't being violent to me.

oh really? well, screw them... come here where there are umpteen supportive voices telling you your bed needs breaking and you deserve better

Absolute nonsense from your family!

Physically violent he may not be (yet) but you ain't feeling scared for nothing...as Grace said these are instincts talking to you...heed them well...they are our last resort when being head f*ed by these people.

There has to be somewhere you can go or someone you can call...my first choice would be womans aid...and at least have a plan for getting out made.

Let's switch it. Read this post as if you were the other party:

I'm taking IDAP course, I became increasingly depressed after losing my job in December. We have money issues which are mainly her fault as she should have been in charge of finances.

SHE is bitter and twisted.

I asked her to pay the virgin bill before she went to work, as we had some money from her grandmother, meant to be paying our car insurance. I mean - the money might be technically hers to pay the insurance, but I told her to do as I say...Pay the virgin bill.

She told me she didn't buy some amazing shoes today because she was saving the money for the insurance, LIKE I GIVE A FUCK! Pay the bill I've told you to pay. She asked if she couldn't wait until tomorrow when she gets paid?

I told her since it doesn't matter anyway, she should just pay it, and if she didn't I'm was going to get pissed while she was at work (and sod our son) I know that all my violence happens when I'm drinking. I know she'll do anything to avoid me drinking. I think that she's 'controlling' and I knows ALL about controlling behaviour because I've been on a course which helps me understand controlling behaviour, and how to use it to my advantage. HA!

She paid it because she was scared I would get drunk and be abusive.

I decided to test how far I could go and then I said "Leave me a ciggie, since you gave the last one to the baby" She didn't give a cigarette to my son, OBVIOUSLY.

I know this, and used it to my best advantage.

You're a stranger reading this post. What would you think of this person OP?

like a previous poster has said, it takes an avaerage of 7 times to leave - it did for me. The emotional abuse, making you question yourself and your motives/behaviour all the time is just as damaging as any violence and takes a long time to get over and recover.

I know it is probably terrifying to even contemplate leaving, it seems too huge and difficult and he is so convincing that you begin to believe it is your fault. It is not. It took me a year to get up the strength and courage to leave. you will need to speak to as many friends and family as you can, speak to womens aid, the domestic violence unit at your local police station. If you are afraid of him, that is enough.

Leave as soon as you can - or get help to make him leave. You and your son deserve better.

If you have anywhere at all to go then leave him, you will never regret it,you will only look back and wonder why you didn't do it sooner.It is terrible to be afraid of your partner, you need to get away from him.I wish you all the best.

I'm not going to talk to you about leaving/staying as that has been said above but if you want to ask me about IDAP I know a lot about it (professionally not personally). It is supposed to help him change his ways and if that isn't working he is deliberatly not engaging.

Have you had any contact from a Womens Safety Worker? She is a Probation Service employee attached to IDAP and her job is to support you while he is doing the programme. The idea is that you can talk to her in the strictest confidence for emotional and practical help (telephone, home visit, meet in neutral location - she should be very very discreet in trying to contact you) and also she can feed back some of your problems to the programme facilitators and his Probation Officer. They can use that info to monitor and supervise him and it will affect they way they work with him, hopefully for the better.

If you haven't heard from a Womens Safety Worker then either your Probation Office is drastically underfunded or somehow your partner has managed to pull the wool over their eyes (stating that you are no longer together for example). You can contact his Probation Officer directly and pass on your concerns and I would hope that no matter how overworked they are they will listen and take the abuse you have described seriously, again using it to work with him to improve his behaviour (hopefully).

HTH

superchick:

I did have some contact with a Womans Safety worker. She called me during the day about a week after he went to court. At the time I was really very low. In addition to this I had found that him and his entire family had turned against me for contacting the police in the first place, and he was using the fact that I had 'grassed him up, despite that fact that some women suffer for years and don't say anything, you're pathetic' against me at every oppurtunity. It wasn't that I didn't want to speak to her but I felt that I should be trying to retract the blame from him...I told her that things weren't that bad and I'd over reacted etc. I can't remember much of the conversation as it was a year or so ago now.

After the initial phonecall I did get one more call, but he was off work and I wasn't able to talk and she did not call back.

I have had soe contact with his probation officer but my faith in the system isn't that great, to be honest. OH has told me again and again that the PO has said that he wasn't entirely to blame, that he was the least seriously violent of all the people in the group, that he doesn't know why he is there. This doesn't fill me with confidence.

I'm scared that if I get in contact with them he'll find out, the probabtion officers will tell him. He only has one module left..

There is something I don't understand, superchick, do you know anything about the module that talks about Aggressive/Assertive/Submissive in an arguement?

This is the section that has caused us the most problems. Apparentely he was told that being being a 'pushover' or submissive in an arguements is allowing me to control him, which is just as damaging as being aggressive. Is this likely? Would the counseller really have said this? Because now all I get is "Oh you are expecting me to be submissive to you" and I'm not entirely sure they defined the line between aggression and assertion.

I did go home...in the end. I know this isn't right.

Aggressive and Submissive are both unhelpful positions in an argument. When somebody is taking an Aggressor role, it means they view the discussion as a battle, which they must win - and the other person must submit.

Assertiveness means making your opinion or wishes clear, and asking for reasonable compliance. An argument where both parties are being Assertive is, in fact, a negotiation: the aim is for both sides to 'win'. This will involve a degree of compromise by each of you.

It's very, very likely that your arguments all take the form of angry Parent/Child exchanges, which is another (less violent) way of looking at the same thing.

Examples:

1] You have been trying to control his aggression. You cannot do this; only he can control himself. You can go as far as "I can't accept your shouting, I'd like you to calm down." What he does with this information is up to him.

2] When you had the disagreement about paying the Virgin bill, you said about the shoes you didn't buy. That wasn't directly relevant to the issue. Your Assertive self would have said "No, we haven't got the money to pay Virgin today." Then when he told you to use the insurance money, you would have pointed out - still calmly - the money was earmarked for car insurance. Then you would have looked at how soon you could pay Virgin.

3] When he threatened to drink, that was Aggressive and it was also Childish - do you see? An Assertive Adult response would have been something like "That's your choice, but I don't see how it will help the situation."

To say the same thing a lot quicker, you should always avoid point-scoring ... even if that's obviously what he's doing. It takes two to play at win/lose. So play straight. You may need to take a deep breath or count to 10: just do it, don't feel you must react to him.

All this is good communication and is certainly worth learning! But it assumes that both people are reasonable, and are motivated to improve their relationship. I'm not convinced he is.

Give it a go anyway. Good luck!