DW's affair - what next?

[Rubarb]

I have been with my DW for 11 years and have two kids.

DW recently told me she'd been having an affair. I had absolutely no idea. It came out because she was so gutted when she got dumped. She was completely besotted with her OM for several years before the affair happend and has been really struggling since it ended. She told me that I was caring and supportive but she was never really attracted to me and always know deep down that relationship wasn't really right. She now wants a platonic relationship.

DW has not been the easiest to be with but I always thought she was worth it. Our sex life has been diabolical in recent years but I had put this down to the depression she was going through. I now look back and see so many signs that our relationship had problems right from the early days and I feel a right fool for being oblivious to them.

I am angry inside but still in love with her nevertheless. She wants us to remain living in the same house. I want to want this too but I am worried I will struggle to get over her and become continually sad. I am conscious it is customary that the dad is the one to move out when there has been an affair, but I love my kids so much and spend a lot of time looking after them; I don't want to leave and live apart from them.

I feel trapped and afraid.

I don't know, that's what the doctor said. I had been ill on and off for a year. She thought it was caused by the combination of pressures at work and at home. She sent me off to see a councelor (a couple of months before I found out about DW's affair).

Hi Rubarb
Sorry to hear about the horrible situation you are in.
I am posting because I have been where your DW is now. I hope it might help you.

I told my DH two months ago I had an affair that had ended and I wasn't sure I loved him any more. I was numb and grieving and couldn't see a way forward except to leave DH and DC and find a place to live alone.
DH has been incredible. He decided he still loves me enough to try again, accepted our relationship had gone wrong and the affair was a symptom not a cause. He has been patient, put me under as little pressure as he could manage, and we have been going to Relate since Xmas.
Slowly but surely things are improving. We have identified several areas that were causing problems between us, I have apologised for behaving like a shit instead of addressing our difficulties and we can both now just about believe that we might have a future together.
We are not doing this just for our DC, we are doing it for ourselves and our future happiness.
This has only been possible because of his patience kindness and generosity and I do truly appreciate what a gem I have there.
You sound like you might be another such gem.
Would it be worth sitting your DW down and gently finding out whether she has the will to work on fixing your relationship? She will be making excuses for her affair and blaming your marriage at the moment, instead of taking full responsibility for her behaviour, but that doesnt mean you don't have a strong marriage worth saving.

If she won't even consider trying, you know better what you are facing.

Best wishes to you and your family

Can you afford to set up and run a second residence, which should be large enough to accommodate your children? If you can't, your options are to remain living together or sell the house in order to afford two cheaper properties. I mention this, as perhaps you are agonising over something which would only provide a v temporary solution in any case.

She is v likely become much more hostile and grabby the moment she walks through the door of a divorce lawyer.

part time job and sharing childcare sounds like an excellent solution but would you both be able to afford separate accomodation on part time wages? do you have family support on your side?

you may not feel like you're under her spell but you must have been in the past to remain in a relationship that was so inequal. it seems like you're willing to put up with a great deal- more than most people.

would you consider using a professional mediator/counsellor to help you both find a way to move forward that doesn't involve you being her whipping boy? because you admit you're still in love with her, your feelings are bound to cloud your judgement.

Can I offer a slightly different perspective? I agree with everyone else that you are having a terrible time and that your wife has behaved appalingly. At this point I think most posters have gone down the route of just looking at sorting things out as they are now and you may want to look at a wider perspective. Obviously you and your wife loved each other at some point. When people get involved in affairs it takes away from the original relationship and it withers and dies. People think they can supplement what they have at home, but in most cases it just doesn't work out that way.

If there is anything left at all between you and your wife - and the fact that she wants a platonic relationship suggests something is still there then if you boht wanted it with time and patience it might be possible to rekindle what was lost and be happy again.

Whilst she has been cut off in full flow of directing her sexual energies elsewhere I don't think she can imagine feeling sexual to you again, and feeling guilty won't help this.

Any decisions you make now have life long repercussions for both of you, and it maybe that neither of you are really capapble of making objective decisions at present. She certainly will be looking at things very differently in 3 or 4 months time. Would it be so very wrong and impossibly difficult for you both to just be kind to each other and agree 6 months breathing space, without making any assumptions or putting any effort into doing anything in particular? If you begin to add solicitors and house moves into an already fraught situation the chances of either of you seeing clearly the best way forwards become more and more difficult.

Of course you both hurt terribly at the moment, but that will pass with time and you will know what to do. I think counselling is good for sounding off, but going together may be just like picking a scab that will heal better if left alone. I really hope that you can both find a way that gives you happiness again.

I think higgle's analysis and advice is very wise indeed. You should give yourselves and each other lots of time, do lots of thinking, read, try counselling/therapy. And then just see what emerges. You never know how these situations are going to turn out, there isn't one pattern for fixing things.

Also, what you say about not wanting to take your kids away from either of you gives me real hope. Hate to say it, but not many people going through this sort of torture are able to separate out their feelings from what's best for the kids. Good on you.

Rubarb I too have been in a situation similar to that of your DW and I am quite appalled that she thinks that it is possible for her to stay living with you and carry on as if nothing had happened (but might again one day).

I had an affair after having known (but couldn;t admit to myself or my H) that for me, our relationship was absolutely 100% over and had been for at least 3 years previously. Obviously it wasn;t something that happened overnight, more a gradual erosion of our relationship until it got past the point of no return.

We had no physical relationship or intimacy and I no longer love him. I could still be friends with him, but at the moment he definitely does not want to be friends with me, unsurprisingly.

He found out about the affair after only about 4 weeks, and we immediately agreed to separate and he filed for divorce.

We have still been living under the same roof for 6 months which is torturous for both of us but as soon as we can I will be moving out into a rented house with our DS (I work PT but am main carer) and H will remain in the house until it is sold.

I am ashamed and regretful of my behaviour but there is no way on earth either I or H could stay together now.

I think your case is slightly different in that by asking to stay I think your DW is ambivalent / unsure about her feelings. And a slower approach with counselling etc might be better than making any quick decisions.

In some ways I think post-affair counselling would have helped me and H even though we had decided to call it a day.

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in this situation, just hope all our posts have been helpful to you.

Thanks again for the support and advice.

I do not wish to destroy DW - I hope at the very least we can get over this, remain co-operative parents and be friends again.

It's been three months and we've managed not to argue too much (and not front of the DCs - so far). That said, we are both pained and struggling; it is often difficult keeping up appearances in front of the kids and others who don't know.

We had another discussion this evening and I asked about the possibility her feelings for me changing. She is as resolute as ever with her "no". She maintains that for her the feelings were never really there and she realised this long before she ever met the OM. The relate counsellings seems to be focusing on achieving an amicable closure to the relationship most of the time.

Regarding the question about separate living arrangements, for us, finances dictate that that we would have to sell up and buying our own places.

I hope there is a living/child care arrangement that works for all of us. If anyone knows of any positive stories please let me know. I could use the boost.

For me, I bought ex-P out of the house, re-mortgaged, and he bought another house. Best thing I ever did. We both see the kids every week, and also get a break from parenting alone every week. In a funny sort of way, it's almost better. It also leaves room for dating and moving on. So don't despair- things might look very different in a year or so.

FWIW I lived with an ex for a few months, while we were waiting for our tenancy to end, and while it was completely amicable, it was very hard to know where the 'new line' was iyswim? i.e. We always used the toilet while the other was in the shower, is that still okay? Who cooks now? Is the shopping now seperate? Whats the rules on new dates? It was all very confusing. Even though we both found new partners. Mine (an old flame) was incensed we were still living in the same house, his didn't dare come round for fear I wanted to beat her up .

There were no children involved. If there were I'd imagine it would be much more confusing, especially for the dc.

I'd strongly advise against staying in the same house if you want to keep your sanity. As already said, check out where you stand legally and go from there. Don't wait about hoping she will change her mind. That will only serve to cause misery for both parties.

Rubarb: you may be able to be friends in the future but only once you have fully accepted that this woman doesn't love you in a romantic-partner way. THere is no couple-relationship to salvage, and the counsellor is doing the right thhing by working with you on the best way to separate amicably.
ONe of you certainly needs to move out, at least temporarily. Which one of you moves is going to depend on finance, etc, whose name is on the deeds and so on. It doesn't have to be you who leaves.

Rubarb - in advising you, I tried to bear in mind what I would be saying to a woman in a similar position. If her husband had been dumped by his affair partner, but still wanted to be financially supported by his wife and have daily help looking after the children - and wanted to pretend to the outside world and the DCs that the marriage still existed, then I'd be telling his wife just what I've said to you. It cannot work and will ruin your self esteem.

So I think you should sit down and work out what is best for the DCs in terms of shared parenting, but living apart. The friend I mentioned upthread has the DCs four days one week and three days the next. Both houses are close enough to the schools involved. Both parents agreed to live close to eachother for that very purpose. They come to other arrangements on "special days" like birthdays and Christmas, whereby they both see the DCs for part of those days, separately. Relatives and friends have also pitched in occasionally if a work demand means that one of the parents cannot do a school pick-up, for example.

This situation has also allowed the betrayed partner of the couple to meet someone new, after the hell of infidelity. To see that person so happy after such a horrible time has been a joy to behold.

If you acceded to your wife's wishes, you would never be in a position to meet anyone else and it's also not fair on a new partner if you are still living with your wife. Most sane women would run a mile from this arrangement too.

It might be worth seeing if one of you can borrow some money to pay for a rental up front until the house is sold - and you can both get your own places.

I agree with SGB that it shouldn't have to be you who leaves the family home, but the children's interests are paramount in this. Only you and your wife can decide which parent the children would cope better with leaving - this has got nothing to do with who they love the most/who they get on better with - but what they can cope with. Whoever leaves should explain to the children that there are huge positives to be drawn from going to a lovely "other home" and that they are lucky having two homes etc. So much depends on their ages, but obviously, this should be presented to them as a positive thing.

Do you think your W is mature and responsible enough as a parent to support you in giving this message to the DCs?

I did not used to be 'thehappyparent' buy the way.

SGB: Good point. I have to fully accept that she does not love me in that way. I am worried that being in the same house will make it difficult for me to move on. I don't want to be a miserable distracted dad for the DCs.

BitOfFun: if you're still out there, do you mind me asking how you distributed child care and work in a typical week?

I fully admit that I was under her spell for many years - I feel a fool when I look back.

Rubarb if it helps H & I are also planning something around the 4 days - 3 days arrangement. It may be 5-2 to begin with(overnight stays) while DS adapts to the situation as he is used to being with me more.

His daily routine will remain mostly the same with me doing school drop off / pick up. We are both looking for houses in the same area and will sell our current home.

As I said before I am planning on moving out but H will stay in the family home - but DS will move "with" me, as parent with care.

In our case DS is much more "attached" to me than to my H at the moment - he would not call out for H in the night or come into his bed, for example. He is only 5 so we are planning as he gets older that he will want more time with his Dad so will leave the arrangements as flexible as possible.

We both agree that me leaving and DS not moving with me would be extremely distressing for him, so that is not an option.

If she finds looking after the kids so difficult then she isn't likely to want to become the primary carer. I presume that is why she doesn't want you to leave the house. She is frightened of having to care for the children on a full-time basis and not having the evenings to herself anymore.

That could easily be solved with mediation. You could arrange that she drops them off at yours when you get home from work (if this is what you want) 3 days out of 5 and then you could have them alternate weekends.

You two splitting up is not the end of the world for the children, they are far more likely to be affected by two very unhappy parents who live together, than two happy parents who have separated.

Dh's brother was thrown out of his home 9 years into his marriage because his wife had decided that she never really loved him after all and she was after someone else (she got knocked back in the end). Like your wife though, although she loved her kids they got in the way of her social life.

Dh's brother moved back in with his parents and built himself an apartment in one of the barns (they live on a farm). He would have the children almost every weekend and certainly every school holiday. They now have clothes, toys and other things that stay in dad's flat and their other things with mum. But both children have been surrounded by love from their grandparents and dad - who never criticises their mother in front of them, sadly she has failed to repay the favour. I won't pretend it didn't affect them, but everyone is now happy with the arrangement.

Like you their dad didn't want to be absent in their lives and although their mum has used access to them as blackmail, he has managed to call her bluff as he knows she needs him to look after them whilst she goes off and has fun.

In your case I would say that things are much better than that as your and your wife are still communicating.

I would urge you to seek mediation. You can discuss plans with someone who is neutral and hopefully get some decisions made because neither of you can live in some kind of limbo-land. Your children also need you to make a decision because even though you are putting on brave faces, children do pick up very quickly on atmospheres and tenseness and yours will know there is something up. Be honest with them or they'll be left wondering if it is something they've done.

You can move on from this successfully and find an arrangement that suits you both, but one of you is going to have to make that first move. Please do contact your nearest Family Mediation Service.

Family Mediation helpline.

I'd give you the same advice that most women who post on here get in the reverse situation.
Gather evidence, see a solicitor and secure all shared bank accounts so that they can't be cleared out and then kick her the F out.

Just a thought, Rubarb. Since your W finds being the primary caregiver so challenging, and you would gladly work p/t, why don't you both try to rearrange your working lives so that you both work p/t? You could sell your home and both find accommodation, as someone else said, near each other and near the schools, to make practical arrangements more workable. By the way, you don't necessarily have to buy your next homes immediately; if you can't afford to buy alone you might find it worthwhile offering to invest some of your money in someone else's property purchase as that way you'd still benefit from rising prices. Then in the future, as your life changes you can revisit the issue of whether to buy your own place. (If you decide to look into this, do make sure you do it through a good solicitor. There's at least one MNer who invested in this way and got a huge return within a few years.)

Obviously this is an ideal situation, but the onus has to be on her to make sacrifices; from what you've said, at the moment she clearly isn't willing to do that and that's why she sounds so utterly self-centred.

Just have to say: Struggler, what an amazing post.

And higgle: very good advice.

Rubarb, I hope that (1) as you hinted earlier, you are not supporting her as she mourns the end of her affair. What a bloody cheek. And I also hope that (2) all the conflicting but excellent advice on this thread is helping you to carve out a path which will work for your situation.

Rhubarb, thanks for the link.

All the advice is beneficial even when conflicting.

DW seems eager to formalise our current sleeping arrangements (i.e. not together) and to tell the kids and other people that our relationship is over but that we are going to live together as one happy 'not in a relationship co-parenting family'... for want of a better description. She thinks I'll be able to cope with it. She's got too used to me always coping with everything without complaint .

She seems very reluctant to discuss possible alternatives despite the Relate counselor suggesting this may be worthwhile.

Again, I'm feeling guilty for being the one considering the break up our family.

Sadly I think you are going to have to put yourself and the dc first, you can not tolerate living with her in those circumstances.

She needs to wake and accept the reality of her actions.

Rubard - you wanted some positive outcomes - I met my DP a few months after he split from his wife, she lived nearby and they managed a split which remained amicable and the kids were always put first. It was nonetheless painful for them both, but over time they have both met new partners, the kids have coped brilliantly with the situation and have turned into smashing and well rounded adolescents (they were 7 and 9 when their parents split)
The ex-wife is now remarried and happy. Me and DP have a child of our own. The older kids spend the same amount of time with each parent - half the week at each home and alternative weekends.
You sound like a reasonable bloke, but if you want to make space for a new life and maybe another chance at a less one-sided relationship, I think you will need to change your living arrangements. Well done to you though to resist the temptation to punish your wife for her behaviour and recognise that doing so would hurt your kids too.
Best of luck!

You don't seem very assertive, you are in danger of letting yourself be manipulated by a person who has already betrayed your trust. Ditch her, and quick.

Rubarb, this is what she is keen to do, but this has to be a joint decision. How about you suggest that as part of that public statement, you also announce that the cause of this is her having an affair and then trying to manipulate you into keeping her in the home? Would she be happy with that? I'm not kidding about you making that suggestion to her - everything you write about her makes her sound exceptionally self-absorbed. If she really wants to try and treat you this way, you need to stand up for yourself rather than viewing yourself as permanently on the backfoot.

Just because you are in the habit of being her doormat, this doesn't mean you have to go on being this way. You don't have to change your personality to become more assertive; you just have to decide:

"Today I am going to Do Something Different. So, today, for example, whenever W talks to me I will not respond immediately. I will keep my mouth shut, listen to everything she says and then say 'I'll get back to you'. Then I will go away and mull it over, thinking FIRST AND FOREMOST about how what she is saying will affect me and thinking about what outcome I would like. Then I will write these thoughts down, go back to her and tell her that her suggestion is not going to work. I will not justify myelf, I will just tell her what I want. If she is unwilling to budge I will walk away."

None of this requires you to be someone different, it just requires you to do something different. But it will challenge her enormously and you will see an immediate change in her behaviour towards you. And it will show you new possibilities of how you can relate to her (and others).

Now is the time when you and your children NEED you to be stronger than ever and to stand up for yourself for possibly the first time in your relationship. If you don't, you run a strong risk of ending up in the picture of your future life that you said you didn't want.

Oh - and you are NOT 'the one considering the break-up of your family'. She has already broken up your family; it's done. Now you're both trying to decide how to limit the damage.