Help me to handle my xh, I feel as bad today as when I was with him.

[thesteelfairy]

A conversation between me and exh today.

Me: Your sisters are texting me wanting to know what we are doing for ds's birthday.

Exh: I don't want everyone trooping over to see him, sick of that every f*cking birthday!

Me: Oh yes, well it's a real problem twice a year. (we have two dc)

Exh: Well I don't want to talk about it now will talk tommorrow.

Me: I have been asking you for a week what we are doing, so I can let them know, we need to make arrangements.

Exh: Well I don't want to talk about it.

Me: Well I will make arrangements myself then.

Exh: No you f*cking won't (said threateningly).

Me: (trying to show I am not intimidated by him) I will have to it is only a few days away.

Exh: FUCK OFF!, No wonder I am a fcking alcoholic, living with you and your shit all these years. Shut the fuck up and leave me alone you nasty fcking bitch!

End of conversation.

I am shaking and just want to cry with rage and sadness. Every single conversation ends this way. Even a discussion about our son's birthday. Please help me to deal with him. I need some tools to help me get through this discussions without being intimidated and coming down to his level.

erm,you've split...why were you discussing this anyway?

make you're own arrangements. why do you need to do birthdays together??

he sounds like a real charmer! congratulations for having left him

I have no experience, but have you tried organising what you want and then telling him? if you make a plan that suits you and your children, then tell him this is what you're planning, and that he can come if he likes

at the moment he can control the situation and it's obviously making it difficult for you. If you decide and then let him know, it's up to him whether he comes or not. Don't go out of your way to make it difficult for him to attend (not when he's working / you know he'll be busy) but whatever suits you (and maybe his sister?) best

Good luck

God, poor you, he sounds horrible. He is still trying to control the situation although you have been brave enough to get out - well done for that. Perhaps you should make some low key plans to include him and his family, like tea at your house and just text him the details. You could then do something more fun without him and all the baggage and stress you will have when he's around.

My XH is a drinker and won't commit to anything in advance, we've got the first birthday coming up since we split so will probably have a similar situation. Well done for staying calm on the phone even though he clearly shook you up. Every call you have like this will feel a little better and remind you why you split in the first place. Just tell him what you are doing and say he's welcome to join, but maybe do it via text or email to avoid his bullying.

Good luck and Ihope you get to enjoy the party!

You're being far too nice to him. Let his sisters know when the birthday party is that YOU organised and don't involve him but do invite his sisters.

I can understand why you would want to involve him as he is their father BUT he is not behaving like a dad at the moment.

If he can't be bothered to organise his child's birthday party, don't involve him. It says far more about him than you to be honest.

What a nasty piece of work he is. Well done for getting rid! Agree that you should just bo ahead and organise whatever suits you. If he chooses not tu attend it will be his loss. your lo will be fine wiht that as there will be plenty going on. Tell him daddy is not well or something. have a lovely day

Tools to help you get through these discussions with him - you don't need tools, you just don't have these discussions with him!

Don't ask him anything, about anything.

Do the 'solo parent' routine, do it all yourself and if he doesn't like it, he can fuck right off.

Please stop letting him upset you. You know he's an ass, stop being suprised/upset by his behavior!!

Thanks, yes I know he is a complete pig of a man but I just keep hoping things will get better and they never do, you would think I would realise this after 8 years. I include him because ds would be heart broken if his dad was not at his birthday celebrations and believe it or not in spite of that conversation he is devoted to the dc, it is me he is trying to get at.

I am blind sided every time though because he can take the most ordinary conversation and turn into my first post. Usually when he is hung over or not got any money for drink and has not had a drink for a couple of days. Those of you with ex drinkers, did you notice that when they haven't had a drink for a few days they are even nastier than usual?

Thanks for all your replies. Really does help so much.

sorry to hear you're going thru all this
your best way forward is to just plan your family life without him and make arrangements for what makes you and your dcs happy
atm you are giving him too much control over the situ and he in turn is abusing you for it
this isn't about him it's about his ds' birthday and if he decides not to show up then it just proves what a crap dad he is
hope ds has a lovely day

I'm not suprised you are so upset. Your exh was abussive to say the least.

I think it is very hard, at times, after seperation/divorce to feel and believe you really MUSN'T listen or take that kind of behaviour.

I understand you, for all the right reasons, wish for your exh to be involved in your dcs' lives, celebrations etc, BUT not at the expense of your own self worth.

It is a positive thing for your exh's sisters to be making you aware that they care about their nephew and wish to see him for his birthday. However I can understand that as they are your exh's blood relatives you probably feel uncomfortable with giving out details when your exh is being so unreasonable. It is a frustrating and difficult dilema.

Please try and take a step back from how your exh feels and put yourself at the forefront here. It is, surely, better for your dcs' best interest and well being that, as their main carer (assuming you are) for you to plan this birthday celebration. Naturally invite exh and his family if that is what you want. Should your exh not want this would it not be reasonable for him to plan an alternative celebration at another date?

For your exh to blame you for his alcohol addiction is, please accept, totally wrong. I understand it can be SO difficult to not take what somebody (especially somebody you have/had a deep emotional bond with) to heart but in the case of dealing with somebody still addicted you have to grow a VERY thick skin.

hth
x

"It is a positive thing for your exh's sisters to be making you aware that they care about their nephew and wish to see him for his birthday. However I can understand that as they are your exh's blood relatives you probably feel uncomfortable with giving out details when your exh is being so unreasonable. It is a frustrating and difficult dilema."

That is exactly it ande. They are his sisters so I think it the right thing to go through him when making arrangements but clearly I am going to have to stop doing this and sort things out with them on behalf of dc.

I think I seriously have to learn to stop engaging with him full stop. I just end up getting clobbered every time I try to talk reasonably to him. It ends in a row every single time and he will always move on to the verbal and emotional abuse very quickly so I feel blindsided by it nearly every time.

Yep, I think that taking a step back from all of them would really help you steelfairy.

You decide what and where you want to do for your DC and then invite who you want to come.

If your ExH is incapable of treating you civilly, there is no need for him to attend.

He doesn't deserve you deferring to his judgement, he's an alchoholic that threw it all away. Don't allow him to blame you for any of it.

Raise your game, rise above him.

Dont' involve him in decisions you make.

make the decisions for your sons' birthdays without discussion. Leave him free to make his own arrangements. DO not allow him to over-ride your arrangements.

Give him 2 weeks warning "we are doing X on X day." so he has time to sort something for a different day or time.

As for not being intimidated - stick to the bare basic facts. Remember not to get drawn into whose fault it is that he is an alcoholic, and do not accept the blame when he tries to put it on you, but don't discuss it either.

So, after he said £"Oh no you fucking won't"

You could have said "I have done. Bye." and hung up.

There is NO LAW about ending a conversation you do not want to have.

Thanks for more replies, only just seen them. Well there was another big blow up last night where he was unbelievably verbally abusive. For some reason though this morning I feel very calm. He was ranting at me about not being able to live with his dc anymore and it being all my fault, lots more was said but for once I don't feel the need to write it down for some reason. I was very upset and didn't sleep much last night but this morning I was thinking about and it occurred to me that this man who physically attacked me, led our family to financial ruin, pawned all our electrical goods, was unfaithful to me numerous times including when I was 9 months pregnant, has absolutely NO insight whatsoever into the fact that all this was caused by HIS drinking. He honestly believes that I should have continued to allow my dc to be brought up in a house where their father was drinking between 5 aand 10 cans of lager a night, staying out all night with police coming to the door to check his bail address. He tells me that just as he was ready to change I put an end to it and he hates me for that.

It finally has sunk in that you cannot reason with a man like this. No matter how much I try to make him see how horrendous his behaviour has been he honestly believes that the biggest problem was me kicking him out. So thats it, no more explanations, no more seeking resolution, no more trying to help him. I am finally done. Only hope I can keep to it as it is so easy to get sucked in by him, he says such awful, unfair things that I feel desperate to defend myself, I can't bear to be thought of that way.

you do your thing with dc on there birtdays and let his sisters know if you or dc want there aunties there.

You let him do a party or whatever with dc when he has his time with dc.

you never ever phone him again to talk about arrangements - ok?

Please don't put yourself in this position again.

and believe it or not in spite of that conversation he is devoted to the dc

no I don't beleive it - if he was devoted to his dc then he wouldn't act like this with there primary carer and give shit to them. the two don't go hand in hand.

Until you stop allowing him to treat you like this unfortuantley he will continue to do so. this then doesn't actually do your dc any favours either as they will think his behaviour is noraal on all counts and you think they dont know how he treats you....

Thanks you are so right. The only person putting myself in this position is me by even engaging with him in the first place. I have finally after 8 years realised this. I thought it before but I didn't feel it iyswim, would still try to reason with him and explain myself because I keep believing deep down I am dealing with a rational human being. I am not, I am dealing with an abusive alcoholic who will do and say anything to get his own way. I am going to write that down and put up on my kitchen cupboard so I see it constantly and it sinks in.

put a note on your fridge

I am not listening - ever

Steelfairy print this thread out and keep it somewhere handy for you to refer to in future should you feel you're starting to be sucked into your ex's dramas again.

Coldtits said ... "So, after he said £"Oh no you fucking won't"

You could have said "I have done. Bye." and hung up.

There is NO LAW about ending a conversation you do not want to have."

That is a really, really good bit of advice.

my ex used to talk me into circles, I finally stopped engaging and it really wound him up. So prepare for a backlash, however he did after a few months realise that I wasn't going to back down and he did change his behaviour.

once you stop you'll feel like the weights off and you can concentrate on yourself. Hsrd to do when you're upset by him.

how long have you been split up ?

well done for being strong x

agree with the others - practising the lines - "i am not continuing this conversation bye" and putting phone down - the first time you do this to him, you will feel empowered and will be easier next time.

as they said - there is no law requiring you to listen to him on the phone.

i believe my ex goes round saying "....and she hung up on me!" to others - but frankly, that is his problem...

birthdays..tricky, if you feel you ought to do somehting together - but you really dont have to.especially when he is so negative anyway.

i agree with you organising something, inviting his sisters and letting him know when and where it is. after all -his sisters texted you not him, right?

if he doesnt like it tough - or he can organize something else. sell it to the dcs - "hey you will get two birthdays this year!"

I've got a manipulative, abusive alcoholic ex. What fun

I used to have a note near my telephone for when my ex called. It said "Is there anything I could be doing that would be more fun than having this conversation?" And anything is more fun than talking do a manipulative alcoholic. Even watching my fingernails grow is more fun than that. So if I'm not enjoying the conversation, and it's not a conversation I need to have, I just put the phone down in mid-rant.

As for arranging events, I have come to the conclusion that I make arrangements that suit me and the DCs. If those arrangements also suit my ex then, great! Everyone wins. If not - too bad, so sad, but that's the way it is. This is after a couple of years of trying, and failing, to cooperate over amicable agreements.

The only things you have to discuss are contact arrangements, medical care and schooling. I try to get all that kind of stuff done in email as it means I can take time to think about a response before sending it. The shorter and unemotional my response, the better.

Yes coldtits that is good advice. I would actually feel quite scared about saying that to him though, he can be very intimidating, but am also beginning to think that he feeds off that a bit. He is definitely more verbally abusive than anything else. Maybe just not putting up with his nonsense at all in that kind of way you describe would work better, it certainly can't be any worse than it has been.

We have been split up officially, moved out no going back since the middle of last year.

I am going to put this on notes absolutely everywhere. DON'T ENGAGE! So it will always be in my face until it sinks in. I do feel angry with myself afterwards because I know not engaging with him is the only thing that would work and I would feel proud of myself afterwards.

ignore ignore ignore. they really do find it hard at first when you stop. they don't like there games being stopped when you don't engage and they cant run rings around you.

thesteelfairy, the more you disengage from the arguments the better you'll feel. Honestly. As others have said, once you start pulling back then he might try to escalate for a while but once he realises that you won't get involved then eventually he'll (largely) give up.

Don't waste your time arguing back, don't try to make a point, don't correct his misconceptions of what happened in the past, don't bother justifying what you have chosen to do. Let go of the desire to make him see your point of view or to win the argument because it's pointless - you won't. Just let it go.

The only way to win with someone like this is to simply not play the game at all.

Ooh, one more thing

Limit your engagement with him even when he's playing nice. The "nice" never lasts for long and it's a lot easier if you just keep him at arm's length all the time.