Would you find this offensive?

[arabella2]

Is this annoying?
Ds and I were in the living room this morning and he was writing a story for homework (he is 8) - I was sat next to him helping him start and giving him ideas.
Dh from kitchen (in the same room but at the other end) says wasn't I going to tell him to think of a beginning, middle and end (ie. plan the story before writing it) before he wrote it rather than just write it in a "neanderthal" way. Not sure of exact wording but word neanderthal definitely used. He tried suggesting to ds that he draw a few comic strips to make the plan but ds just carried on writing it with me.
Then later on dh came and sat next to us and again said something to me about teaching him to "plan" it. I was saying that I find that way of writing stories boring and he said that was "bollocks"..... Now I don't know but I found his way of expressing himself on both occasions offensive, but I don't know if that is what other people would think too. In any case ds's story turned out fine and was sweet.
So would you too have taken offence... Do you too think I should have taught ds how to plan the story???? I know it sounds trivial but would welcome any thoughts. Thanks!

He was being rude by labelling your ways of helping neanderthal and bollocks. He could have added his suggestions in a much more mature and grown up way. I think he may be the neandethal here.

I think both your opinions are valid. So no vote either way.

Whilst your DH didn't express himself in a pleasant way, his actual suggestion re: the planning, was actually quite sensible. Children are expected to plan their stories nowadays. They do a lot of work based on how to plan, what to include, what to think about etc. At our school, I witnessed several literacy lessons last week, across the whole school and in every one, the children were being taught how to plan a piece of writing. It is a skill they will need when they come to do any writing assessment.

So I think youe were both BU.

um,
beginning middle and end were good ideas and how they encourage it at school.
neanderthal and bollocks were rude comments yes.

Agree the opinions are valid as to how best to write the story, but the manner in which he expressed his opinion was rude and childish.

The planning thing is a particularly academic thing much like showing the working in maths. Having said that, I think it's boring to do it that way too but your DS will probably have a much easier time with his work if he does learn to write that way.

Having said all of that, your DH's expressions and tone were hardly conducive to constructive learning and were, in fact, pretty neanderthal (to re-use his expression).

Either way works as a way of writing the story but your DH was out of order to talk like that and especially in front of your DS. Having started writing his story your way (and his presumably) it was also undermining your DS.

Your DH sounded a little bit aggressive actually - is he having a bad day or is he always so forthright with his opinions?

8 year olds are not writing entries for booker prize. they are having fun with their imagination and their words, and their stories lurch from point to point, then they run out of steam and write "the end".

I think you dh's recommended approach would put most kids off writing for life. They need to just get on with it. But why did he feel the need to use such harsh language??? I think that is what has really upset you. It is just not nice to be spoken to like that, especially as you were having a nice, intimate moment with your son. sounds like he completely ruined it.

I agree that your DH sounds aggressive here - in fact, downright rude. His point was valid, but undermining you in that way was childish.

how is your dh so knowledgeable anyway?

this might be of interest to you. yes, your DH was not explaining himself in a way that I would like, but, his main point was correct!

Sorry, you need to click on the writing tab.

Sadly, your DH was advocating the method demanded by the Literacy Strategy / National Curriculum.

As a child, I wrote book-loads of stories using your method, and got 2 A's for O'level English.

Unless the homework stipulated using the first method, I would do whatever enthuses your DS, which is probably NOT the planning way.

Oh and YANBU - your DH was being a tad rude and overbearing in the way he spoke to you.

Sorry it sounds trivial

Thanks for your thoughts. I know that planning essays becomes important as one gets older but I too (like some posters) thought it would be fun to see what thoughts came out of ds's head spontaneously as he wrote, with a few promptings from me. In fact I didn't even think of the planning issue even though I am aware of it and was also taught to write essays this way though maybe when not so young.
In any case it is also true that if he had expressed himself politely we could actually have talked about it and I could have got my point across without being talked over by him. Dh expresses himself aggressively quite often and he was not just having a bad day. He is very critical towards me especially at the weekends so the incident is part and parcel of his general attitude towards me on Saturdays and Sundays. If it was a one-off it would maybe be trivial, but I find his weekend attitude towards me very draining in general and spent most of today feeling quite powerless. (He was okay until he came downstairs and then somehow because he would like an immaculately empty house and because I tolerate more clutter - or at least this is his argument - his tone and general demeanour changes not for the better - he is 12 years older than me and is always telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing). I used to argue back whenever I thought he was needlessly criticising or being sarcastic, but I have recently adopted the strategy of ignoring him as do not want to get into fights. This however is somehow very debilitating - but do not want to argue in front of kids.

Uh oh. Poor you. Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book? Your H needs telling firmly to mind his manners, he is not your boss or your owner and needs to accept this straightaway.

I have just taken a look at it on amazon and I think I agree with what one of the reviewers said (ie. with regards to my dh - obviously she does not know him): "What I've realised is some (men) are extreme in their behaviours but many are not, BUT, they can be just as destructive over the longer term. There's only one rule in my life now for all, including any man that wishes to be part of it (and this includes friends and family too), and that is that they exibit as much respect for me AS AN EQUAL as they'd wish for themselves or they're out." I kind of think my dh is not extreme in his behaviour and does have a warm and loving side which the kids see 95% of the time, but his constant criticism and his bossiness are very negative character traits. I used to be a lot messier and he was probably right to be annoyed then but he does not acknowledge any improvements of which there are some and this is what I find soul destroying, it is like he is a stuck record voicing the same complaints over and over. Moreover you know that whatever you do he will always find something else to complain about and this is depressing. He is a workaholic and in a way - apart from the fact that he loves seeing our 3 kids at the weekend - I think he is more comfortable in the week because he is back "doing stuff". I am too! School run and other parents to talk to plus a peaceful house with 3 year old daughter coming back at 11.30am and 5 and 8 year olds at 3.15pm is great - I get to enjoy their company plus be by myself a little.

The way he commented was rude and unnecessary.

Howeer his suggestions were spot on and very much how children write stories at schol in most primaries I know of.

Right frm Reception and Y1 children learnt to use story maps to deveop their stories (like the comic strip he mentioned). As they get older they add text to these plans including settings, what is happening, character descriptions, etc. And the images get more detailed.

They are encourages to use story mountain, planning out the beginning, middle and end - with extra bits involved.

And what planned properly, then they start to write it out in full.

TBH the best stories I seeat the schools I have been involved with have been the ones that have been properly planned int his way.

Your DC will also need these skills for essay writing when he gets to secondary school and for GCSE/A level examms. So they really arevery good skills to be teaching.

I agree his suggestion was totally valid and am kind of annoyed with myself for not having thought of it, but am I somehow less intelligent than him which is how he kind of made me feel with his tone and comments???? Ridiculous question to be asking I know but I think we could just have talked about the whole thing reasonably if he hadn't metaphorically laid into me. Because he is quite often "bombastic" I suppose I am used to often taking offence which of course closes down all possiblities of communication.

Also I dislike feeling like his employee which is how I feel reasonably often - because they are his kids too he can ask me to do things in a certain way (not that I necessarily do...) but if the tables were turned I don't think he would appreciate being told exactly how to do something with them. Somehow he uses this authoritative tone which is supposed to mean that he is more with it but he certainly would not accept the same tone from me unless he were in a VERY good mood which does not happen very often.

"bombastic" is the wrong word - more he is very sure of himself, doesn't mince words and is often overbearing and unfriendly in the way he says things

Have you told him how he makes you feel Arabella2?

His advice was right but his attitude stank. But I get the impression that this is about far more than one piece of homework and certainly, if you are enjoying life more when he is away from home, some sort of alarm bell should be ringing.

It sounds as though you were both stubborn about the homework. He was rude about the way you were doing it and you ignored his suggestions which possibly made him feel powerless.
You both seem to have been having a power battle and maybe should have just left the lad to get on with it without parental interference.
You say you ignore him and it sounds as though he was trying to have some input into his son's homework and was ignored by both of you.
How would you feel if you had made suggestions re the story and been ignored?
I feel sorry for the wee boy stuck in the middle of this.
Stop ignoring him and talk to him and get things sorted if they can be sorted.
You were both being unpleasant about each other's story ideas.

No I haven't really told me about the way he makes me feel supercherry, as it always turns into an argument about me not looking after the house properly. It is true that we have problems in general pikelit and are maybe burying our heads in the sand about it. Finally, supercherry, I don't feel I was interfering in my son's homework as he wanted help with it and we sat down together so I could help him. I only ignored my dh's suggestions because in his first sentence about it he used the word neanderthal about the way I was approaching things. I feel he was interfering because ds and I had sat down together in the living room and dh was in the kitchen doing something else. Dh was interfering actually. Having said that if he had been polite then we could have talked about it but why should I respond to the word neanderthal? I don't feel my son is "stuck in the middle of this" as he was having fun writing his story and just wrote it. I would not have been "unpleasant" about his story ideas if he had not been so initially aggressive. Having said all that it is possible that he feels just as powerless as I do in lots of ways and that is worth thinking about so thank you for that suggestion.