My husband will not LISTEN when I am talking to him about problems in our marriage. How do you overcome this?

[Billy123]

Have namechanged because I have a feeling the dcs have been bandying my chat name around (with their friends' mums!).

I love my husband dearly, and I love our family. We are a happy family I would say but there are some quite major problems that I have been speaking to dh about for a couple of years and he hears what I am saying but does not listen.

The root of our problem is based around the fact that we hardly ever see each other. This is due to the fact that I work regular hours and he doesn't. A lot of his work is done in the evenings. Last week, for example, I saw him on Monday night and that was it.

About a year ago, I told him this wasn't sustainable, that we couldn't see each other so little. He agreed and we came up with a plan whereby he would either quit his job and take another one with similar hours to mine or he would give it up altogether and do something from home. Neither of these things has happened and I'm pretty sure his suggestion of these things was mere lip service. In fact, today I asked him how he was progressing with either and he said 'you've got to be joking, I'm not even thinking about those options for at least another few years'.

Well I can't carry on in this marriage for another few years when I'm seeing him so little. What frustrates me even more is that I have to travel for work but have put my foot down and said I won't do it any more because this results in us seeing even less of each other (and obviously the children not seeing us together at all!). I have one trip I have to make but I arranged with work that he and the children could come (as it's a great location for a holiday and I would take a few days off) and now dh is saying he doesn't want to come because it's a long way away and I will be working for most of the time so what's the point . Well the point was we'd all be together for a lot of the time.

I just can't get where he is coming from. He loves his job, I get that, but it is killing our marriage and our family life seeing each other so little.

I told him I would quit my job tomorrow but doing that plunges us into financial uncertainty as I earn almost double what he does and pay all the bills/childcare etc. so it makes absolutely no financial sense me doing this.

He loves me, I know he does. But he will not LISTEN and believe the damage this is doing. How do I get through to him without something drastic like leaving which I don't want to do?

If he is around in the day & you in the evenings, why do you have a nanny?

Perhaps to start, for one or two days a week he could do the same/similar hours to you so that you at least have a couple of evenings together?

the children are at school so the nanny covers the period when he has left for work and I am still at work but on the way home (i.e. she picks up from school and looks after them till I am back).

He can't change his hours unless he changes his job (as his hours are tied to the job he is doing).

Yes, I think it's ultimatum time. I am prepared to ask him to leave but tbh, it's with a heavy heart. I think he may well change then but he won't do it happily.

I suppose the way it is, either he is happy and I just get on with it. Or I force him to change which will make him unhappy and I will feel bad about that.

I think we will not be able to solve the issue and that will be the end of it which seems such a shame as we are potentially a great family but stuck with a man who refuses to entertain any idea of making a move to change the way things are and seems to live in fear of any change at all.

I should also point out that it wasn't always this way. It has only been since I have gone back to work (i.e. post dcs) that we have had issues. When I was on maternity leave, everything was fine (as we still had lots of time together and we were both happy). But I had to return to work, due to money issues. We simply cannot survive where we are without my salary.

What does he do that has such anti-social hours, or would that give too much away to anyone who knows you IRL?

You have to try the change - and while he'll be unsettled initially, once he gets used to it then that will be the status quo and maybe he'll be ok.

Good luck

Thanks for talking it through with me everyone. It has made things clearer in my mind tbh!

sorry Ali, didn't see your post. Yes, it's quite a specialised job!

It sounds like a really tricky situation, Billy. Have you thought about going to counselling on your own? I really think it might help you deal with things and would give you a clearer perspective on his behaviour and how you can cope with it. He is acting selfishly and whether that is rooted in a fear of change or something else, that is not something you are able to fix. What you are able to control is your reaction to his behaviour. You are obviously feeling quite trapped in this situation and talking to someone impartial might help you to work out what your options are and give you the strength to go through with them.

FWIW, I really do think that you should start the process of moving. If he gets cross and anxious, so what? He is making you cross and anxious every day of your life. You could give him an ultimatum but I'm not sure that forcing him into counselling would really work - if he doesn't think he needs to change then you might have trouble persuading him otherwise. Maybe you should sit down with him and just say: "I am not happy with things the way they are. It's not your fault, but we do need to change things as I am unhappy never seeing you. I have come up with these options:" and then list them - downsizing, him reducing his evenings socialising to three a week, whatever. Then say "one of these options needs to happen in the next six months. I think that downsizing (or whatever) would be best for the family but I would like your input." Make it clear to him that you would like it to be a joint decision, but that you will go ahead with your choice if he refuses to engage.

That's just a thought, anyway. If he refuses to talk about it, make it clear that it is his choice not to engage with you and therefore you will be making the decision yourself.

I don't think the above would be an easy thing to do - bloody hard, in fact - but you do need to try and break out of this pattern that you are both in.

Sorry, have written an essay but I hope some of this helps!

Billy you can't get him to change unless he agrees that it's necessary even if he doesn't like it. I doubt giving him an ultimatum is the way to get his buy in. You really need to discuss, repeatedly, the situation and the problems. You personally need a clearer idea of whether he's actively defending a situation where you hardly ever see each other because he likes it like that. It might not be a risk - only you can work that out, but don't trade your well-paid job in for something less only to find at the end of it that you're on your own.

I've been in a similar position - re a dh who doesn't listen, pays lip service for a quiet life and then does his own thing anyway.

It breeds resentment. Sort it. Really.

Billy - I am wondering if there are underlying problems in your r/ship other than the one about not seeing much of each other and jobs etc. You mentioned that he often sees things as a personal attack on him and that when he is unhappy he lets everyone know and you feel responsible for keeping him happy. Sorry if I've got this wrong but that's what I though I read in your threads. If this is the case, then the problems are not just about hours of work, who does what, how often you see each other etc.

I think it is unreasonable to expect him to give up a job that he loves and which he finds fulfilling. You might be much more miserable if he gave it up and resented it and then even if he could get another job (which is doubtful in this climate) he might hate it, and given his unhappiness affects everyone, how would that be a positive mood.

Sorry but I don't understand why you are thinking of pullinng up stumps for the reason you say. Are you sure it isn't all about other things that are wrong and you are putting all the emphasis on the fact you don't see much of each other.

Just a thought...........sorry if I'm completely on the wrong track.

sorry - last line of 2nd para should read "how would that be a positive move not mood.

I disagree that these men don't listen. They do listen, they just don't agree with you.
To many women a man "listening" to them means a man doing exactly what they want.
Obviously if the 2 of you want different things in life ie the man is happy to stick with the satus quo and the woman wants change then the relationship will suffer unless a compromise is reached.
The problem isn't due to not listening though, it's due to listening but disagreeing.

No, the problem is listening, disagreeing, making vague agreements to keep the peace, then carrying on in their own sweet way as if other peoples' needs are of no importance.

Communication the key.

What a difficult situation for you. If your DCs were given the choice of parents together but living a less affluent life or staying where they are with divorced parents, I'm pretty sure they'd choose parents together?
Suppose the question here is, what's the over-riding reason for DH's behaviour - is it the fear of change or is it extreme selfishness? If it was the fear of change, you forcing the move by going part-time would perhaps force the answer because he'd find that change wasn't the terrifying prospect he'd imagined.

If you split, you would remove having to live with the resentment of the way he seems content to not consider your needs but you might also be very lonely and financially worse off - you might not be able to continue with your job as is as a single Mum for instance, and/or in a divorce settlement you might have to pay him some money if you're the higher earner, especially if he gets custody.

I guess if it was me I'd force the change by changing to part-time. Then, either he gets over his fear of change or you find you really don't want to be spending that extra time with him anyway and re-condsider the future once more.

Oh I see. He sounds very difficult to live with.

What would you prefer to do about your job? I see that you are prepared to leave it, but do you really want to? And if you were to be on your own, would you be able to afford to?

Maybe the most useful ultimatum would be "Come to counselling with me, or I'm off?"

there are a few undertones that suggest there is more to it....

go to relate for both - but if he doesnt want to or refuses to go then go on your own til you can see the way forward.

on the one hand you say he could be around in the day to pick up kids from school and then you say the nanny does that - if he could pick the kids from school why doesnt he do that now?

what family time do you spend altogether - how and when? once a week? weekends - if he works both days when do you get out altogether? how old are the kids?

how does he get on with the kids when in charge of them?

when is he in sole charge of kids? as sounds like you in sole charge in the evenings after work? does he reciprocate? or nanny does it?

if he could pick up kids from school now with current job you dont need to pay a nanny?

The thing is, as far as this man is concerned, Billy, you are a 'woman'. Not a person. He thinks that you don't matter, that you exist for his benefit, and that he can just sit there looking concerned when you say you are unhappy, tell you all the reasons why things can't change (this being that he doesn't want things to change) and carry on as normal.
TBH what I wonder is why you want to 'see more' of a man who thinks you are unimportant. The fact that he pressurizes your friends to pressure you into obeying him is a bit worrying - does he do this WRT other things?

Oh SGB men are people too - they don't all fit your crude caricatures

Billy, the way he's behaving is passive-aggressive. Talking to your friends before talking to you was a spectacular example, and in the everyday scheme of things he's being passively aggressive by "agreeing" with you but dismissing your concerns. My boss used to call it "dumb insolence".

It is actually a very manipulative behaviour, putting all the visible onus on you. Truth is, he's probably anxious about it as well but prefers to avoid thinking about it ... by telling himself you're the one with 'the problem' and it's up to you to 'sort it out'. IYSWIM.

I'm afraid your choice is basically between fretting about this for the next 20 years, and dragging him into the harsh light of reality by laying it on the line.

I agree with you that a marriage comprising one night a week together isn't much of a marriage, even if you had a full household staff!

Downsizing to a smaller house/cheaper area could be one compromise: one or both of you could then cut your hours. Or you could split up, one of you rent a small flat nearby, and continue to spend Monday nights as a family (at least you'd know where you both stood!). Or he could change to day shifts.

"Laying it on the line" will probably have to start with your booking Relate, informing him it's THAT serious, and taking it from there. I do wish you luck!

Acanthus: Plenty of men are not ignorant sexist selfish tossers, I quite agree. But some men (like the OP's H) are. And the root of this type of man's unpleasant behaviour is his profound and unshakeable belief that women simply aren't important.

"Laying it on the line" will probably have to start with your booking Relate, informing him it's THAT serious, and taking it from there".

Agree with Grace - think that before you think of changing your job (which you would need if you ever split) you should "force" the Relate thing. Book for yourself to go, tell him it's serious and you may well find that once you go, he starts to understand the gravity of the situation and joins you there. Then you can decide together how to move forward.

By the way, another piece of advice that was once given to a friend of mine was to "show your vulnerable side". If he feels coralled and "in trouble" he is likely to withdraw. If he feels that you love him and are upset about your relationship is it possible he may appear on a white charger? (Easier said than done though).

SGB - you can't know that from limited information over the internet. People are more complex than you give them credit for.

Acanthus: Not all of them, though. Bigots, for instance, all follow very similar stupid thought processes. As do abusers. Remember that while most people can be stupid, unkind and selfish some of the time, most people think that most other people are ok, and have rights and feelings that matter as much as their own do.
Bullies and bigots don't, because the biggest thing about them is their egos, which leads to very predictable patterns of behaviour.

SGB, you scare the pants off me most of the time. But I could have written your post, above, myself (and probably have, in more fact-based forums).

The regrettable truth remains, though, that bigots & abusers feed off ignorance/innocence. Nobody can understand how relationship abuse works until they've been through it, come out the other side, and been safe for long enough to evaluate what happened.

Those rare, lovely, sane people, from sane & stable backgrounds, have no empathy for how abuse works and, ironically, make themselves vulnerable to only the meanest type of abusers - who take advantage of their cloudless world-view. It's a harsh old world, really, and thank goodness we have an instinct to protect one another.

I'm a little bit curious to know what bestowed such terrible knowledge upon you, SGB, and why you're so angry. But not curious enough to push it.

Billy: slight hijack. Sorry. But relevant to you, all the same. Stay sane & stable! x