'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Bop, I hope you are feeling ok. I really don't think you are doing anything wrong by sending your DS to nursery for some of the week. I think most children go to nursery at least on one day per week before they start school nowadays. I think it really helps them to get used to the sorts of routines they have to follow at school and mixing with other children without you there etc.

Looking after yourself as well as your children is really important as you need to maintain your physical and mental resources to cope with your parenting job. And it really is worth putting time into sorting out your feelings from the past so that you can be a better mother in the future. Becoming a parent really does bring up your feelings from your own childhood, I've heard so many people say this.

My children went to nursery 2 days per week before they started school and I spent about a year and a half going to see Therapist and doing loads of writing about everything. I really put loads of energy into getting 'sorted' and now I really feel it was worth it as I feel so much better about everything. I feel I'm treating DH and the kids a lot better than I was. I even feel like a 'good' mother at times!

I know what you mean about being scared to enjoy how good your life has become. I sometimes just can't believe it can be this good after it has been so bad at times, and occasionally I get scared of losing it all. I worry that I'm being stupid sometimes (hardly ever but the occasional 'flash') because in the past when I thought things might be becoming ok, something else would happen and I would think, 'who did you think you were, thinking that you and your life could be better, you are not that good'. I now know that this is not true. We all deserve to have a nice life and we are all important enough to have a nice life.

I wonder if this 'battling' thing you have is a feeling of, 'I never spoke out in the past and people had power over me in a bad way so now I'm going to make sure I always speak out', because of a fear of past things happening again? And because you don't want to feel that you are the same person who those things happened to?

I used to feel something like this which was rooted in shame about what happened and feeling it was my fault for not stopping it. If it is similar for you I just want to say that there is no shame in being the person you were back then because you did nothing wrong, the people who were abusive were the ones who did wrong things. They didn't do it because there was something wrong/inferior about you, they did it because they were bastards. You don't have to try to prove now that you are a separate and totally different person to the one you were then because there is nothing wrong with the person you were.

Also, do you need to battle? You can disagree and say that you have a different view to someone else's and that your view is x. You don't have to use battling language and feel like you are having a battle. The people in your life now may mostly be reasonable people who can look at other people's views and tolerate different points of view without flying into a rage or doing anything abusive. Probably most people are not like the ones who were abusive to you in the past. If you disagreed or got angry with someone in the past there were probably bad consequences. But for people who aren't like the ones from your past, people now in your present, maybe it is ok for people to get angry with each other and to disagree. Maybe they (and you) can express their feelings and views and still feel positively towards each other after. Eg. we get angry with our kids but we still love them and the anger from each little incident passes. Anger doesn't have to be the big awful thing with horrible consequences that it was for you in the past.

Oh Bop the love you describe for your son has got me all teary-eyed. It is so normal and acceptable to need head space and deal with our issues. I think everyone needs that from time to time and us more so. Again it is typical of us to analyse every decision so deeply and wonder if we are good enough mothers.

I don't think any mother can care for her children 24 hours a day without respite. It is not healthy and not the way things are meant to be I feel. We all try to get respite somehow, whether through childcare, grandparents, dads or friends.

I feel a bit better today thanks in part to your posts. The anger I suddenly felt was a new phase in my recovery I think. I find it so valuable to write it down here and express thoughts I maybe can't express in real life.

A surprising source of support and validation came from my FIL (not surprising in that he is normally unsupportive, just that I don't talk to him much about these issues). He talked to my DH about it and expressed disgust at my adoptive parents. He agrees we should 'cut them loose' until they make amends (which I doubt will ever happen). He thinks it is criminal what they have done. I have to admit he has never asked after them or expressed any sympathy for them since this came out in the open. My MIL will try and see everyone's point of view, but in her defence she is quite an anxious person who I think does not like to think anyone can be so cruel, especially mothers. I can see and understand the darker side of human nature but she will bury her head in the sand about it. This I feel is the source of her insensitive comment.

Did anyone read about Enid Blyton? There was a short film/drama about her on before Christmas. A classic narcissistic mother. She was cruel and neglectful towards her own children and quite a disturbed woman. However she portrayed herself as a wonderful mother through her books and indeed by being lovely to all the children who came to visit her and listen to her stories about adventures and idyllic childhood. My MIL watched it and was deeply disturbed by it. For me it was no surprise.

Her daughter wrote a book about her in her adult years, dispelling this myth. I admire her for that.

We have finally received our copy of Toxic Parents. There are bits that are relevent but an awful lot that isn't.

The books talks a lot about childhood but DH doesn't really feel that his childhood was all that bad. It's more about the events of the last 4 years.

I realise that DH has already gone through the confrontation stage with his parents as he has written them a letter about 2 years ago stating why he was upset with them and how they have made him feel. Of course they have refused to acknowledge his feelings or even that the things he has pointed out ever happened. He has now got to decide what level of contact he wants with them if any at all.

I think the hard part for him is that if he decides not to have any contact with his parents he will probably have to cut other members of his family off too, starting with his grandparents. Which won't be an easy task because of all the guilt that goes along with it.

It is very interesting what Susan Forward says about using others as a form of manipulation. IL's do this very well, play the martyr in order to get others to do the confronting. This has been what DH has found hardest to handle. His parents have played the martyr so well that his side of the story is not believed or even taken into consideration when other members of his family have confronted him over this issue.

I saw this thread a while ago and thinking about posting ... Anyway, here goes:

I had/ still have a really difficult relationship with my parents. They tend to see anything I do 'wrong' as very much a reflection on them, a problem for them. I didn't realize when I was younger, but they are both people who really struggle with social interaction. They never had 'friends' over, or went out socially - if they met people, it was either to do with work or family. I think they never really questioned that their opinions and attitudes were 'normal', even though they were so socially isolated. They still tend to assume that the way they react to things is the norm, and if I don't react the same way, I'm being odd or wrong.

Basically, I think problems came to a head when I was about 13. My parents still used smacking as a means of discipline then. I used to have to catch a bus to school at 7.30 and they insisted I eat at least a slice of bread before going (sensible, obviously). I seemed to need a lot of sleep and always found catching the bus a struggle. This mattered a lot since there was only the one bus and if I missed it my mum had to drive me 15 miles to school.

So one day I realized I was very late, couldn't force down the bread (I found it really hard to eat quickly when I was sleepy). So I ran out of the door, and the bus was standing at the stop. My dad came running after me, caught me and hit my shoulder, crammed the rest of the bread into my mouth and stood shouting at me while I ran for the bus.

I just remember feeling horribly ashamed in front of my friends. I went to a teacher later and told her I was scared and my dad had hit me. They ended up calling social services, who came to my parents home. I realize now that the social services man probably needed me to do more than be very quiet, but I didn't realize at the time and was terrified and very ashamed. So he say there was clearly nothing wrong here and that my parents obviously cared for me.

My parents were really angry that I'd called social services - they still are though we don't mention it much.

Don't want this post to become too horribly long so I'll stop there, but I guess that was the start of it. I think now they still feel I've let them down and although I am reasonably successful in terms they'd understand, they seem almost to be waiting for me to cause them another problem. I don't know if this makes any sense.

Hello, LittleRedDragon and welcome Thanks for your story. Like you, I remember the humiliation of parental ranting in public - and then the associated feelings of disloyalty, shame and 'wrongness' for feeling humiliated! Aarghh. Feel free to post as much as you like.

mampam, roseability, OSAHM & Bop, your posts above are beautiful!
The thing about over- or under-reacting to statements you disagree with is interesting, I think. We were raised in the belief there's a "wrong" and a "right" perspective on everything. (Parent="right", child="wrong)
This amounts to a lack of respect for other people's opinions, when you think about it. So, while it's understandable that we now feel driven to impress the rightness of our views on others - and it is very necessary to us that our views are heard - we can sometimes flip over onto the other side, demanding that everyone else agree with us no matter what!

My family's very big on arguments - the debating kind. I love 'em! I was in the debating society at school and am happiest in Latin countries, where passionate disputes are the norm. Lately, though, I find myself backing out of the family debates because there has to be a winner. I don't need to win, I just need to get my point of view across and, ideally, learn something new from the others. I've only just realised that this is one change I've successfully completed - so, forgive me for rabbiting on about it.

Yet again: thanks, Stately Homes

Rose - omg, your post about Enid Blyton got me thinking - not about her, sorry! - but about her books, I LOVED her books as a child, I suppose they were pure escapism, this totally unreal "safe" world they depicted where good children were rewarded and bad children were punished - so unlike the real world that many of us inhabited where it didn't matter how good we were, we still suffered.... not surprised in the least that she was really a bit of a monster, her attitude to children even in her books is actually quite punishing, with her endless portrayals of some children being just "selfish" and "lazy" etc and therefore undeserving - anyway... thinking about her books that i loved, there were so many of them that i read, so many different series over a period of quite a few years and i remembered one - the Mr Galliano's Circus trilogy - and just remembering the name brought tears to my eyes. And I wondered why - and I realised it must have been because when I was reading them I was fantasising about running away to join the circus too, completely unconsciously. I didn't consciously feel like running away from home till I was 14, and even then I didn't know why I felt like that really and didn't feel i was justified in feeling like that, but i read these books when I was much younger, under 9 for sure, and it's another little chink in the armour of my (unconscious and very hard to reach) denial to register this reaction for myself, and what it means.

WTSA, have to thank you for your post re the abuse that is so hard to quantify and talk about and the fear of not being believed/taken seriously - that's been a big issue for me too, would like to talk about that one more if only I had the time! And would like to respond to all your great posts today but am being v bad mother at the mo so must pay DS some attention and just say thanks for posting.

I have watched these threads developing over the years, have not posted before but have come to realise from reading "daughters of narcisstic mothers" (sorry I think that is the name of it!) that my mother has NPD tendencies whilst not full blown, it is there and my father is the enabler.

I have posted today as my dh is away at the moment and I nead really to get it out.

I have been treated like a naughty child all my adult life, past mistakes from early teens (first marriage failure, not doing well in school exams etc etc) are always dragged up and generally told how awful I am. There have been lots of arguments over the years, then my mother acts like the child, my father then comes on the phone to "give me a round of the guns", everything being my fault never ever theirs. He always finds someway in his head to reconcile that it is not my mothers fault in anyway. Or that she is really really upset and I must make up with her at once etc etc.

Today has been one of many final straws, they phoned and I told my mother that my daughter had done really well at her parents night, I was explaining that my dh had said to her maths teacher that we realised that maths was not her strong subject and that we were working with her on it, I said jokingly that the teacher looked a bit deflated as he said there was nothing wrong with her maths and she must be Oxbridge material in the rest of her subjects if we thought maths was weak. Jumping in before I had finished my mother then says "oh we were always deflated after your parents nights" I said nothing, then "come on you have to agree you had the ability but didn't use it". I then told her it was Fimble we were talking about and not me and said I needed to go and put the phone down. My father then phones back in attempt to do his usual to smooth things over, he said he had spoken to her and she shouldn't have said it as it was "all in the past". That somehow just seemed to make matters worse, as if I was some kind of loser. I know I flunked my exams etc but they never gave me encouragement or helped with homework and I struggled in most subjects but they don't see that. When my first marriage failed, everything was about the upset it had caused them, no support nothing. I told him he was lucky my dh wasn't home and put the phone down.

Sorry for the ramble...

But Grace it is not merely a subjective view we are trying to impress on others like our favourite colour or a political opinion.

It is wrong the abuse we suffered and the selfishness of our parents. It is wrong to ridicule, humiliate, bully and neglect your child. There is no subjectivity for me regarding child abuse, for that is what it is. So yes when I tell people what was done to me, that an innocent child was told she was fat and worthless yes I do expect them to agree that it was wrong and that it was hurtful. No it isn't black and white completely. My adoptive parents behaved like they did for reasons that are nothing to do with me and happened before I was born. They do have good and nice moments too. But that does not undo the wrongness of the bad things they did. Nobody is wrong all of the time but when my parents abused me they were wrong on those moments. I expect the people that love and matter to me, to believe me and to support that view. Maybe if more children were heard and believed and had confidence in the wrongness of their parent's action then so many children wouldn't be growing up unhappy, unconfident and unfulfilled. Or having to pay money to have people tell us that what our family did is worng

There is a right and wrong perspective on this. It is right to treat your child with love and respect. To love them unconditionally and to listen to them. For as long as I live I will try to teach my children that it is right that adults treat them in this way because they are inherently good and beautiful.

Yes life is shades of grey but those abusive moments were very, very black.

I also get a little bit pissed off with the statement that it 'takes two to make a relationship work'

With narcissists there is only one person in the relationship and the only way to make it work is to lose your identity, your very essence and hand it over to them. So that they can shine and maintain their illusion of perfection.

Rose, you said "I do expect them to agree that it was wrong and that it was hurtful" and of course you're right. We all need validation. I'm surprised you think anybody here is trying to invalidate your experience?

I also agree that 'it takes two to make a relationship work' is only true where both individuals are reasonably sane, reasonably well-adjusted, reasonably healthy & neurologically typical. This is, I feel, a very big problem in couples counselling, family therapy, social services and, often, the law. Since most people are reasonably 'normal', those who should help to resolve problems fail to take into account the abnormalities that can completely skew the power balance in a relationship.

Hello, FimBOW Your mum & dad sound infuriating!! If they've been doing this all your life, no wonder you feel trapped by their stupid game.

Is there a particular reason why you didn't want DH to see your post?

OK, Rose, I'm going to rephrase that.

What have I done, that makes you feel invalidated by me?

Hello everyone,

I'm new to Mumsnet although I did post a couple of times on the 'daughters of narcissistic mothers' thread a few weeks ago. I say I'm new to Mumsnet - I've been lurking for a while, particularly on this thread. I can't tell you all how helpful this thread has been to me.

I have very very controlling parents but have only really started to think about in the last year, since DH and I have decided to have a family of our own.

The daughters of narcissistic mothers website was a massive eye opener to me! Both my parents are very controlling and my mother definitely has a lot of NPD traits. I can't decide if my father also has NPD or is a very aggressive enabler. But they are BOTH very controlling and operate as some kind of tag team.

Like FimBOW I've been treated as 'the naughty one' all my life - I'm 32 now and it's still going on. I'm the eldest of 4 and the others are all much more compliant than me so I'm seen as the 'difficult' one but I'm not - I just don't obey my parents without question.

I had a couple of counselling sessions a few months back but oddly it wasn't as helpful as this thread and 'If You Had Controlling Parents.'

It's only in the last few months that I've realised how much my childhood and teenage years have affected me and it has scared me sometimes. I don't ever remember my parents telling me they loved me unless it was to guilt trip me. The only praise I ever got from them was when I did well at school which wasn't very often at secondary school, hence no praise at all during my teenage years! I never felt valued, loved, supported etc for who I was, only for good things I achieved which I did eventually with good A-Levels (not sure how I managed that!).

I also never felt affirmed as a young woman by my father - he always treated me as quasi-boy, for example if something heavy needed lifting he wouldn't let my mother help him but would get me to do it. This would happen when I was 10, 11, 12 etc so still a child yet I was considered 'stronger' than my mother, an adult. It's only recently I realised how this affected me as a teenager as I spent a lot of time worrying that I was a lesbian because I often felt more masculine than feminine because that's how the most significant man in my life treated me since I was very little.

No offence to any gay women by the way by the use of the word 'worry' - I say 'worry' because despite feeling more masculine I genuinely never felt any sexual attraction towards women so I didn't know what I was!

I could go on and on but I've probably said too much for a first post. I just wanted to say hello and thank you all, especially AttilatheMeerkat and OrdinarySAHM, because you've all helped me so much and you don't even know it!

Hi there - thanks to grace for replying.

I didn't express myself very well. I don't really what to say first.

Obviously, compared to most people here I am very lucky. I don't really have any knowledge of abuse but I think Ineed some help. I don't know where to go. I don't have big problems but I am struggling.

I don't know what to do now -perhaps nothing is best?

Thanks!

LRD

I am beginning to feel like I have to justify my view of my childhood and I find it tiring rather than therapeutic. Going to step away for a while as maybe I am being too sensitive.

There's no such thing as "too sensitive". What you feel is what you feel

I would have appreciated it if you could have clarified why or how you felt so hurt - and hope you step back in again soon! Take care.

Well hi all. I had typed out a lengthy rant about things, but i looked at the preview and it was more than a textwall. I don't need to inflict that pent-up ire on people all at once, so I've copied it into Open Office where I can bleed it off over time.

I've lurked here a little while - the stately homes thing caught my eye, because I was dragged around god knows how many of those as a child - and although I have the usual 'things weren't that bad for me' goin through my head, the fact that my rant fills three pages of OO says otherwise. Clearly I have a lot of unresolved issues with my mother, even after a counselling session which touched on them.

It's funny, really. No single experience I had as a child is enough to make me feel justified in saying I was emotionally abused, but the fact of the matter is that, even now, every time I sit and seriously think about my childhood I find myself fighting off tears, and that isn't right.

Not sure exactly where it rates on the scale of abusive... but my Dad was quite controlling of my Mum(I think).
They would fight once every few weeks, when my mum's frustration exploded out, (literally exploded) and then she'd get punched for that. I can remember aged 4 how she'd hide in my bedroom wardrobe and he'd come and get her, and worse. Lived with that volotile situation till I got sick of it, went to university, and then moved in with my bf. ... That apparently was a big slap in the face to my Dad, and then, we decided to have DS.
Anyway, its been really hard, I don't speak to my Dad, and I'd LOVE to say I've moved on, to say I don't think about him now, but I have nightmares about him almost every night! Mostly some deep fear about what would happen if he were to spend time with my DS.
My sister is great but she says I always tell her all the awful things that I remember and I always act 'fake' and happy with my Mum.
I think its because I feel guilty, I know my Mum wants us to all be a happy family "again"? (her words) I know my Mum has been controlled and basically f**ked up by living with my Dad. Tho I too hate her for letting us all live in that house. I hate her for me having to be the one to stand between my Dad and my little sister.
Its crap, because my parents probably thought they were doing the best by us by staying together. And I'm capable of anger just like my Dad (although thank God for supernanny I've got loads of alternative ways of telling my child when he has misbehaved.)
As mentioned here on this thread, my parents can't see that they've done anything wrong and deny certain events happened and don't believe their behaviour is the reason I moved out! And I don't care to waste time trying to educate them. It is hell not being able to call my Mum at home for fear of my Dad picking up the phone though. So, mostly I don't...

Rose I think I get where you're coming from, it's too late for me to write anything much now but I will try and say what I feel on the subject when I do have the time. I just want you to know this matters to me too. Hope you read this.

Hi roseability,

One thing I feel bery strongly is that no-one should have to justify their OWN view of their OWN childhood. If your view of your childhood is 'XYZ' then your childhood was - for you - 'XYZ'. Someone made you feel that way so that's how it was.

Does that make sense?

Sorry, I obviously feel that very strongly, oops!

Rhinestone

Glad to have been of some help to you.

Rhinestone, thank you for saying I had been helpful, it makes me feel good! And I'm glad if anything helpful can come out of my 'crap'.

I kind of had the quasi boy thing as well but in a different way. I thought females were weak and pathetic like my mum and I was more drawn to boys' games as a child because they seemed more interesting. As we weren't encouraged to mix socially, probably because our parents didn't find it very easy either, I just hung around with the children in the street who were mostly boys and were my brother's friends rather than mine. I desperately wanted to fit in with them and 'keep up' with what they did even though I was smaller, weaker and 'girlier'.

I think I convinced myself I was a boy. My brother was awful to me if I failed to 'keep up' and be as 'hard' as him and the others and I was kind of taught to be disgusted by girls and disgusted by my own weakness. When I became a teenager and other girls started being interested in boys I realised I was too much of a boy to be attractive to boys and I didn't like this. I also started wanting to have proper friendships with girls who I could talk to but found it hard to connect with them because I didn't know what girls were like. These things made me feel confused like you. When I went to university I was still finding it hard to connect with girls and still hung around with just boys. People seemed to look at me funny and I felt they were wondering about my sexuality. Like you, I don't think there is anything wrong with being gay, but I didn't want to be thought of as something I wasn't. I gradually learned about females and now I am a 'proper' one . I didn't have normal friendships with girls til I was 23 though.

LittleRedDragon, almost everyone feels they didn't 'have it hard enough' to be allowed to talk about it on here. But it is simple, if you have feelings about your childhood that you find difficult then you deserve help with them, whatever it was that made you feel that way.

Roseability, I think that feeling that you must justify how bad your childhood was might be one of the stages of the 'recovery' process? I used to feel obsessed by it but it has gradually eased and isn't so bad now. I think it is a necessary part of it. I think a lot of it is that we think we are trying to justify to others that it wasn't normal but it is actually a process of learning to realise and believe ourselves that it wasn't normal. I think a lot of the 'fight' is against ourselves. People stop themselves dealing with their feelings because they worry that they are being stupid. Your feelings are real though and won't go away until you process them.

TottWriter, don't worry about the length of posts, have you seen the length of some of mine?! They all seem to have forgiven me for drivelling incessantly! You aren't forcing people to listen as I bet most people feel the same as me, that they enjoy reading about other people's experiences and their thoughts about them because it helps them.

Dominique, I'm not surprised you moved out as soon as you could! Are the bad dreams about your dad part of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder? It sounds hard to cope with. Don't you find the fake 'acting normal' really tiring? I do this fake happy act with both my parents and we pretend to be a normal family. It often makes me feel like I'm betraying myself though. My dad is controlling too (although not violent) and my mum is completely dominated by him and will hardly speak if he is there. I can't have a proper genuine conversation with her unless he is nowhere around as she is so inhibited by him.

I also feel contempt for her because of her weakness yet I feel I should feel sorry for her. When you have kids though and the kids need you, I feel that you have to find the strength to do what you need to do for your kids even if you are scared of what someone else is going to say/do. The kids' safety is more important than your fear. She chose to have kids (or maybe my dad told her they were going to adopt 2 kids), and if you make that decision then you have to be prepared to do the job properly. I lost a friend recently for speaking out when her son kept being aggressive to mine and she was doing nothing about it. It was extremely sad to lose my friend but I feel I know I did the right thing because my son is more important than keeping the friendship at the cost of him being bullied. This is probably a crap example, but it is an example from my own parenting that sprang to mind.

Rhinestone having read your post I feel there is a similarity between you and I in that I was seen as the difficult one just because as you put it 'I just don't obey my parents without question'.

Anyway at the moment I am posting on here about DH and his relationship with his controlling parents, but that phrase you used does have some relevance to DH. He is an only child and has always 'obeyed his parents without question'. He says he was happy to do this, in some ways I think the reasons were laziness. ie they sorted out his bank out, paid in the money etc. It meant that he didn't have to bother.

It wasn't until he met me that he started to disobey his parents! He had had a long term girlfriend previously to me but they didn't live together or have future plans as such. I guess when he met me and we knew we were going to spend our lives together, DH started to make plans with me for our future, he had never been allowed to 'think' and make 'decisions' for himself before and when his parents tried to hinder him and he refused to be hindered I guess that is when it all started to go wrong.

This is why I assume that I am the wicked witch in all of this as he didn't disobey them before I came along!!

DH had a very rude awakening to his parents not only because he could suddenly see how controlling they were but they showed a side of themselves that he had never seen before ie being awful to me for no other reason than to try to come between DH and I. They backed him into a corner and made him choose between them and me. He chose me (thankfully). I would never have put him in that position. I was preparing myself to leave him as I would never expect him to choose and it was quite obvious that his parents would never allow him to have me and them in his life.

I truly believe that it never occured to them that he would ever choose me over them!!

hi guys, so sorry to hear all of your stories of childhood, but so very happy to hear of recoveries and lives that have moved on with goodness in them well done you all x

I have cut my parents out of my life, my father has not been a big part of my life for a long time, and my brother who lives abroad and I have as adults had a strained relationship, he looks down on me and does not treat me with respect, I stood up to him a long time ago and he never really forgave me for it, I don't feel sorry for what I did.

I knew I had been physically and mentally abused by my father, who was diagnosed with bi polar disorder.

I only recently realised that I had also been abused by my mother my whole life, I am so ashmaed I am 36 and feel dumb.

I blamed all the abuse and problems on my dad, it is only since I was enlighted to the complexities of emotional abuse first through csu after police were called in after long term abuse from ex husband and they told me I had suffered emotional abuse throughout my marriage and then followed it up with counselling that I understood what goes on.

I think I closed my eyes to it all, I had to open them and after finishing counselling, I evaluated relationships and realised two months later my mother had been abusing me and still was playing games with me.

I asked for acknowledgement and apologies I got none, I ended up with her doing a great job of labelling me mental to everyone, making up lies about me to others, I then learned that she had been doing this to various people about me for years, I got to thinking about how she divides and conquers and stories she has told me about others and realised she has been playing big time psychological games my whole life, she is a nasty horrible woman.

I have alwyas been angry at her I thought because she kept me in an abusive marriage with my parents, that she let him abuse us, that she let him make us move all the time, 11 junior schools, different countries and ends of countries moves, isolated from extended family, no long term friends, just him and her and fear!

I spent my whole life until I cut my mother out with anxiety in my solar plexus and it is only now it is gone, I am sad, the woman will never apologise, she is sick.

What really makes me sad is that no one has ever loved me. My dad never touched me unless he was hurting me, I was like a lost puppy after her wanting love and never getting it, I was the scapegoat, my brother the golden child, and they all blamed and bullied me for everything, which I thought was all my fault.

Then my husband said he never loved me, and I really don't think the man is capable of love.

I now don't trust anyone around me and have withdrawn from people, they had withdrawn from me after hubby left as I was so needy and upset, they were not good friends, I think everyone has used and abused me.

Twice years afterwards I have met up with long lost friends from a group of mates and a group I worked with and been told that others in the group used to set me up and do nasty things to me, it is sad, I knew deep inside myself that people were doing that to me, but it was like they told me they weren't and were nice to me and I believed them as I had switched off my innervoice, I blame that on my parents, they switched it off in me and I lost what is know as your little professor, because I was told always that I was wrong, my mother to this day still does this, as does my ex husband, I have to look at actual stuff like letters etc as they make me think I am going mad, and if it was not for physical evidence I would have gone mad, I went half mad as it was, I am so sad that no one loved me and that they did this to me, but I will not let them win, I am starting new therapy tomorrow, I am going to live well and do well, I will keep myself and my children safe and move on from these vile people and have a good life, they have all taken enough of my life away from me as it is.

This means no one has loved me, I have my children and I know they love me and I am so very lucky.