'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Can I just make a suggestion to those of us struggling against brothers & sisters who were more favoured than we were? When you read about child abuse, you will have noticed that witnessing family abuse is, also, abusive. A classic control strategy - and torture technique! - is to make sure others see punishment being inflicted on a peer. This, obviously, has the effect of making the witnesses fear the same thing happening to them.

When my brother told me, last year (we're in our 50s now), that he's always felt guilty & ashamed of not protecting me ... that's the voice of abuse. For a little boy to feel he ought to save his big sister is bad enough; for him then to be afraid of trying to save her is a deep wound to that boy's sense of worth. Which, evidently, remains unhealed in the man. It breaks my heart.

So, remember, please: every time they saw, or felt, your suffering - they were abused as effectively as you were. Like my brother's, their scars are just as deep & ugly. If you can't manage compassion, this understanding might help you to process their behaviours.

Bad, bad parents

• witnessing family abuse is, also, abusive should have read:
• making children witness abuse

That makes sense Grace. I always thought my brother was the Golden Child. Yet he's the one who has suffered from severe anxiety attacks most of his life, who has been an alcoholic/addict, and who can't hold down a job. It may not be completely connected, yet sometimes I feel HE was the one hard done by. Which I guess is the one thing that kept me going through the years, because I originally thought he was spoiled rotten, and 'look where it got him, I'm better off than that despite the abuse'. Twisted but true.

My goodness wtsa your father threatened you with a knife! That's just horrible
Was your mother there at the time? Was that 'the' incident you struggle with?
I really related to your post. I know what you mean as I feel I have these physical incidents which even so I still question wether they were that bad? Like my dad putting his hands around my throat and screaming '...I'll f...ing kill you!' . How can I think that wasnt that bad, but it feels at times like it didnt happen to me if that makes sense.
Strangely it was all the stuff in between that was far more painful. The emotional neglect, abandonment. My mother refusing to speak to me for days on end or looking at me like she couldn't bare the site of me that felt more damaging.

grace Im ashamed to say that I witnessed my mother hitting my younger sister accross the face and arm. Full force, she just kept going and I knew I should have stopped her but I was scared, frozen to the spot and there was part of me that was glad that 'for once' her venom wasnt directed at me

It's awful, isn't it And I know what you mean about feeling it didn't happen to you. Then, when it did happen to somebody else, it's almost the same feeling iykwim? I recall Dad throwing my little bro - aged about 2 - against a wall. Just picked him up and chucked him

rose, am glad to have been able to help you. Like you say if i try and talk to other people about what i went through there are only a handful of actual incidents and i also feel i come across as making a fuss about nothing much and focussing on the bad. And yet it was so much more than the few incidents i can recall and describe, but it is soooo hard to put it into words. I realise now i was under constant pressure 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, never even for a split second feeling totally safe and secure at home. I must have always felt worried and anxious even when my dad was being 'nice',

A recent news story reminded me about the 'knife incident' with my dad. It was the one about Myleene Klass when she had intruders at her house. Apparently she waved a kitchen knife at them and got warned by the police about I presume threatening the intruders with a knife. That may not be the full story, it's what i heard on the news, but i just thought to myself, she got warned about threatening adult intruders with a knife and my dad threatened me with the a knife one morning at breakfast when i was about 14. I think we were having one of our usual arguments and he thought it was perfectly ok to hold a knife up to me. It wasn't directly up against my throat, but he was waving it in my face. I remember i was looking at him one minute, i looked away for a second and when i turned around he had picked up the bread knife that must have been on the table and was holding it up to me with a nasty smile on his face. I have no idea what sort of father thinks it's funny to hold a knife up to his daughter's face. That's all i can remember unless you count what i was wearing at the time which i could describe in perfect detail. I think my mother was in the kitchen at the time and my sisters may have been in the room but not at the table. The incident didn't last for very long, probably a matter of seconds.

smithfield, that's not the incident i have talked about before though. I feel i can talk about the knife incident because it is obvious that would be an awful thing for a child to experience. I feel though that i won't be able to describe the other incident well enough to get across just how terrifying and horrific it was for me. I'm scared that people will not think it was that bad, but for me, it was definately the worst actual incident with my dad. But it was all bad i realise now, even during the periods of relative calm. A child needs to feel home is the one place he or she is safe and secure and i didn't have that. I have no idea how i actually survived, not physically but spiritually iykwim, because I was not destroyed, my soul survived, the core person that I am; something i have realised now that most of my protective layers have fallen away.

smithfield your dad with his hands around your throat.........how can somebody do this to their own innocent beautiful little child?

I know what you mean about not being able to believe all these things actually happened to you. I feel the same. I can't believe it was me, the same person that is sitting here now.

Recently i've been feeling a general sense of unhappiness, dissatisfaction with my life, depressed. I don't think it's actually due to my childhood issues, but could be more down to perhaps a mid-life crisis (am going to be 40 this year) and/or having been a SAHM for over 6 years now and feeling bored and trapped but not being able to see a way out. Just wondering if anybody else feels/has felt like this and is it down to childhood or something else? I sometimes wonder if I will ever feel happy, even if i work and work on sorting out my issues, at a core level, can i really be truly happy and contented knowing how my parents treated me? I can try and fill the various gaps etc and parent myself but it's always a conscious effort. If I had had loving caring parents, perhaps i would not always feel as i was walking against the wind all the time.

wtsa You are afraid that you will feel diminished by recounting an incident that is too difficult to put into words, I understand now completely why it would be so difficult for you to discuss.
I think perhaps you may have felt that a little when spiky was posting perhaps too?
WRT to what you were saying about the depression and how you are currently feeling, yes I know exactly what you mean in the sense that I have been feeling like this recently.
It is in fact the very essence of what I was discussing with NLQD.
Do you think you have suppressed the 'real' you for so long that you have missed out on things that would have happened naturally for you had you not suffered the trauma of your childhood? Hve you been drowning out your gut instincts which has made you ultimately feeling sad and low?

smithfield, John Bradshaw says at the beginning of Homecoming:

"Three things are striking about inner-child work: The speed with which people change when they do this work; the depth of that change; and the power and creativity that result when the wounds from the past are healed"

So, yes: It's usual, when we get to around 40, for a sort of life evaluation to take place. Call it a mid-life crisis if you like, but it makes perfect sense to do this evaluation. Roughly half-way through our lives; no longer "promising" or "on the way" - we start asking ourselves whether we've delivered on our promises, and where are we going next?

When we feel our power & creativity haven't yet come into full play, there's a whole new sense of urgency. The most common age for people to start therapy is 45. It's up to you to decide whether deconstructing your childhood will release your creative power; your instincts will tell you that!

I'm watching the news from Haiti. I'm wondering how foolish am I to be worrying about my self-esteem, when so much worse things happen in the world? But trauma is trauma. It is terrible to imagine what the Haitian survivors will go through as a result of this trauma - we, meanwhile, have our own traumas to deal with. Sad. But simple.

You asked WTSA: "Do you think you have suppressed the 'real' you for so long that you have missed out on things that would have happened naturally"

I do! I'd really like to know who the "real me" is!!!

Oh my goodness. As a result of your question above, I asked myself - for the first time - what would have happened if I'd had the same childhood, but with loving & supportive parents.

I would have known I was beautiful
I would have gone to Cambridge (Dad blocked me)
I would have joined Footlights (I always took the comic role in school plays)
I might have become a minor celebrity
I may well have become a comic scriptwriter
Things would have come easily (they did anyway, I just never looked for the right things)
I would have married a nice man
I would have had children (because of stable marriage)

Fuck me! My life would have been totally, utterly, completely different

I have NEVER thought about this before!
So ... the real me is the woman THAT woman would be in 2010. Jeez.

Well, I'm stuffed on the career & kids front, but I'd better figure out what she/I would be aiming for next. And start heading there.

Have you guys got any idea how GOOD you are???!

Hello everyone. Please can I come on here?

I remember reading the original stately homes thread years ago and wanting to post but feeling that I couldn't (why? I don't know).

Some things have happened recently and I started a thread today 'I haven't spoken to my mum since October and I feel like a piece of rubbish' and Atilla recommended that I come on here.

I posted:

I have tried to have a decent relationship with my mother but after 14 yor so years of trying I have had enough.

She didn't raise me - she had me when she was 17 and nobody knew she was pregnant until the night I was born. My gran raised me and I was raised to believe that my mum was my sister until I was told at the age of 6 that she was actually my mum. I didn't see very much of my mum during childhood in any case as there was a lot of bad blood between my gran, mum and my uncles and aunts. Lots of rows between everyone. I can only remember seeing my mum about half a dozen times.

My gran was very abusive (she was abusive to my mum, aunts and uncles when they were growing up as well, I think now she was prob mentally ill, either that or evil/mad) and my mum knew that she was leaving me with an abusive woman. She said that she didn;t have a choice but to leave me to be raised by my gran but god knows what went on. My upbringing was very unhappy - periods of normailty interspersed with periods of quite severe physical, emitional and sexual abuse (oh god I am sat here with my heart racing at typing that I have never admitted such to anybody before).

I got to know my mum when I left gran's house when I was 16, I moved into a hotel where I got a job as a waitress, my mum found out and came down to see me. Since then we have tried to build a relationship.

It has been hard. She never likes to talk about how she left me with my gran - she is very much of the opinion that I should 'get over' things and not let the past drag me down. She didn;t tell me whi my father was until I was 25 because before she didn't like to discuss it. She doesn't want to recognise that I suffered - in her eyes she is the most important victim because she lost her daughter. She went on to have my brother who she idolises (another bone of contention I suppose).

She has said the worst day of her life was when I was born and she has never been able to recover from it. She has been in therapy for donkey's years.

Anyway, to cut a very long story short, my gran died last March (I had not seen her from the day I moved out 15 years previously). My mum was grief stricken (she had not spoken to my gran for about 25 years either, none of her 5 children had spoken to her). It was like Ma Walton had died, all the family (bearing in mind that my mum and her siblings hadn't spoken to each other either) all gathered together like a little clan, reminiscing about being raised by my gran. It was very odd.

Anyway since then my mum has announce that she has forgiven my gran for what she did, and that she is reconciled. My mum insists that I forgive my gran as well and visit the grave etc, but I can't.

My gran died intestate therefore my mum and her 4 siblings are due to share my gran's estate of approx 300K. Althoigh none of them spoke to gran for years they have no compunction in spending her money and going through the house and dividing up the contents.

Me and mum had a row in october because I asked for photos of me as a child which my gran had. My mother refused saying that I was not entitled and that the photos belonged to her and her siblings. I do not posess one photo of myself before the age of 16. I know it is nothing but I really want old school photos of myself etc.

Since october we have not spoken, not at Christmas or new year or anything. She has spoken to my dd intermittently, and sent her a £20 postal order for her birthday and Christmas. This is not normal - normally my mum buys dd nice presents for her birthday and Christmas.

I spoke to my brotehr lasy night, he said that my mother refuses to speak to me until I apologise for being demanding. Apparently she is worried that I will ask for a share of teh money to which I am not entitled and I will not get a penny, apparently. Until I apologise 'she is dead to me' according to my brotehr.

I don't think I should apologise. I just feel like I am a bloody piece of rubbish thrown away, that i am utterly worthless and always have been to her, her list of importanec in her life is herself, my brother, her job, her best mate, and 27 various other people until you get to me and dd. I am sick of trying to despereatley try and have a normal mother daughter relationship.

I didn't sleep at all last night and feel awful, I need to speak to someone but feel i would blow up. DP knows what has been going on and he thinks my mother is selfish. My dd is in the middle wondering what the hell is going on.

Sorry very long post and prob should have namechanged but i just feel utterly like the lowest of the low and don;t know what to do for the best.

I am normally a very laid back person and don't get riled, however I feel like i am full of bitterness - there is a Larkin quote which I read some months back which seems to describe me to a t - 'full of black, twitching, boiiling HATE'. I don't want to be this person, I don't want to be someone who hates. Why have I managed to bumble through my tewnties and somehow fall of a cliff emotionally in the last 6 months? I don't know who I am anymore.

My daughter is precious and I also feel that I am going to lose her - she is 14 and is on aboout going to boarding 6th form. My beautiful daughter is pretty much my entire family. I know she has got to grow up but i am so scared at the thought of being without her. What will I do for the next 40 years? What will I be for?. I don't want another baby but I want her as a baby again, almost.

I just feel I have to speak to someone otherwise I will blow up.

I am just off to read all the posts and the other threads.

I'm going to stick my neck out and join in!

My Mum has some kind of undiagnosed mental disorder - I think we are looking at a mix of NPD and OCD to be honest.

I haven't spoken to her for 4 years. She left me, my Dad, Dsis and Dbro when I was 12 (they were 10 and 4) - with my Dad's best friend. She was incontact for a while but then moved 500 miles away and used to come to the town I lived in to see my Gran and never tell me she was there. Ten sh moved to a different country and didn't tell me till she was there!!! Then moved back (still hundreds of miles away) and once again I only found out once it was a done deal.

I got into trouble (mentally) 4 years ago and she started to lecture me about what a crappy mum I was - that was when I stopped talking to her. At my (very much loved) Gran's funeral 3 years ago she totally blanked me!

She thinks she was a fab mum. Sorry - my Dad was a great mum and then also my stepmum!

I am currently seriously depressed (again!!!) and my psychologist wants to investigate all this again. I'm terrified, but also know if I have to face it again, then I do, and in the end it might do me good. But it is VERY scarey to go there again!

smithfield, yes, i think so. I have this idea people will be polite and kind and say yes, I can see how bad that must have been for you, but inside they will be thinking, what's all the fuss about, what you have said wasn't that bad. I feel I simply cannot put into words how it felt for me. Perhaps I will give it a go on here one day. But i feel scared even thinking about posting about it on here.

I think my depression is about the things i have missed out on. I feel now that i have DC's it's just too late. The sort of things i want to do are just impossible with DC's. I feel I just do not 'fit' into the conventional lifestyle DH and I are leading now. I remember many years ago thinking i never want to be tied down, with neverending domestic duties, living a monotonous, groundhog day life that i could see all around me. But somehow, i have ended up doing exactly that. If i had somehow managed to sort myself before i met DH i think it is possible i may never have got married; i am a person who needs to be free, to do what she wants on a whim, who is free to change her mind as often as she likes, to move around and not live in one place all the time. All of those things i feel are incompatible with being married with DC's. But because i was so lacking in confidence, needy etc, i did not have the guts to follow my heart and instead married DH because i was craving safety and security and to be parented and he has done all of that. So I feel stronger and have recovered so much self confidence and self esteem and i feel i want to pursue my dream and follow my heart and live the sort of life i know would make me happy. But I can't as I have DH and the DC's and my duty is to them, it's not their fault i got married when i really shouldn't have, because i was too scared to follow my heart. So now i'm stuck and feel trapped and unhappy even though outwardly i have a great life.

I don't think i'm explaining myself very well, i hope you get the gist of what i'm trying to say.

Re spiky i can see now the whole spikygate triggered a lot of things for me. She seemed to personally single me out in her posts and i felt picked on just like at home. But initially i was too scared to say anything to her about how her posts were making me feel. Again just like at home. But then, Bop noticed that spiky's comments and attitude towards me within her posts was very judgmental and critical and aggressive, perhaps passive aggressive. And Bop and then Rose both spoke out on my behalf to spiky and colorado and that was a very new experience for me. Nobody had ever even noticed i was being picked on or stood up for me before. That gave me the confidence to say something to spiky myself which I did. But then after i had posted about spiky i felt scared about what everyone on the thread would think and i was worried everyone would turn against me and take spiky's side and blame me for causing the whole problem in the first place. Again i realise that feeling of being scared of everyone turning against me and blaming me as the troublemaker from my childhood where that is exactly what happened time and time again. But then the story had a different ending to the one it had had all my life. Nobody took sides, nobody blamed me, nobody turned against me. It has made me realise just how much i went through with always being blamed for arguments at home, always being thought of as the troublemaker. Nobody in my family ever reacted to me as everyone did on here. I feel on this thread i have been treated with respect for my feelings and not blanketly blamed for everything or even anything. People seem to be able to see that i felt hurt and criticised and attacked by spiky's posts and were able to empathise with me. Nobody has ever done that for me before. Nobody least of all my family has ever realised that the times when i reacted in anger at home it was just because i was hurting inside. Nobody ever seemed to see that all the things my dad said to me hurt me so badly. I was hurt but i couldn't show it and instead i acted tough and angry. So it has been like a re-enactment of my old family drama but this time with a different and happy ending.

Thank you for your story, GOML. It's very sad; I feel for you.

Even without further abuse, for your mother to say "the worst day of her life was when you were born" is extremely hurtful. (Mine did too, the silly cow.) Also, the business with being told at the age of 6 that your sister is your mum and your mum's your gran ... no wonder you're not sure who you are: they told you you weren't who you thought you were, just at the age when your identity had formed!

Being abused, confused and rejected all your life must have made every little thing you do seem so much harder Never blame yourself for this.

Others here will help you. Please keep posting. You are worth the effort, you know

Grace, what you said here "When we feel our power & creativity haven't yet come into full play, there's a whole new sense of urgency." That's how I feel. I am desperate to spread my wings and go off into the world and see what exactly i can do and be and achieve. But I can't. I am totally constrained and constricted by my duties and responsibilities to my DC's who are only 6 and 3, babies still really and my DH who got married in good faith that he was marrying somebody who like him wanted to settle down and have a family. And i did think i wanted that when i married DH, but i did not realise there was a much deeper subconscious reason why i was getting married to him which is that my inner child could sense that DH would be like a parent figure to me and he has been. He has provided the stability, safety and security i needed in order to heal and recover from my past but now i feel sufficiently healed and strong enough to start moving forward but i can't take any steps forward because i am tied down by my responsibilities. It is a problem with no solution.

Those coments mothers make are so "effective"

When I asked my Mum why she left she said "Oh S, you are so much bother, you ask too many questions"

I have never got over this!

Thank you so much Grace.

Why I feel like a whole load of floodgates are opening now God only knows.

I am bawling at 'you are worth the effort you know'.

Grace I am just horrified at your dad throwing your brother against the wall. You must have felt so bloody helpless seeing that. Christ almighty. It reminds me when I was about 7 or so my gran flying off the handle and battering me, my uncle (who would have been about 15 at the time) standing helplessly by, he sounded so frantic he said 'don't do it, you'll kill her, you'll kill her' and then running off in fear as she set off after him.

Why was she like it? I think I am upset because now she is dead I will never be able to ask why.

I am so sorry for everyone else as well, WTSA how you must have felt re the spiky incident on t'other thread god knows.

Thanks for everyine for listening.

GOML. Welcome to the thread. Am so glad you posted. I am so sorry for what you have been through. You should be proud of yourself for having survived through all that (and no doubt more) and reached the place where you are now.

I hope reading this and the previous threads will give you some comfort in realising you are not alone and that you can post on here without being told to forget it all because it's in the past or that it was your fault or any of those things which you know are rubbish.

Have you considered seeing a counsellor/psychotherapist? I hope you will, but bear in mind it is very important to find the right one for you so you might need to go through a few before you find the best match for you.

Also there are some very good books out there, Toxic Parents by Susan Forward is a good starting point.

weegiemum, hello and welcome to the thread. Your mum abandoned you and yet she thinks she was a good mum, mine's the same although the abandonment was emotional rather than physical. I certainly felt abandoned by her when passively she stood and watched my dad verbally lay into me.

I am glad you are seeing a psychologist. It is definately very painful and scary to start delving into the past, but like you said it will do you good in the end. Keep posting, I hope reading about everyone's experiences might help you feel less scared, as you are not alone.

Parents do shit stuff. Like Betjeman said, they fuck us up! My daddy was keen on throwing children - amongst other things. He was a nasty piece of work (but he gave me my sense of humour, so should I be grateful?!??) Mum stood and cried a lot, whimpering "Don't do that DH, you'll give them a sense of insecurity". (A would help here, but it wouldn't be near enough.) Of course, she was terrified of him: it would be helpful if she'd admit that, but she doesn't even know it any more - she 'coped' by living in fantasy, and that hasn't really helped anyone.

I don't know what age you are, GOML, but your mum's story sounds like one of those SHAME tales of virginal brides and hidden births. Disgusting, harmful and sad for all concerned. No, not sad - tragic. It must have been hideous for your mother: like mine, she's failed to deal with her reality and has overlaid it with beliefs that help her cope (not all that well, by the sound of it). It is this failing to deal that makes dealing so very hard for us!

Your nan sounds like a right old monster. I wish she could have been locked up in a small room with my dad!! That would have shown 'em both

They were incredibly, shockingly unfair to you, GOFML. If you feel angry at them, do!! You're right! I feel furious at them, and I've never even seen them!

You are worthwhile. Learn it

One more post, GOML

There's a therapy exercise I do regularly. I write a list of 15 wonderful things about me. The first time I did it, it took me FOUR DAYS, full-time

How about starting yours? Do it in here, if it helps. xxx -hugs- {mn}

Grace - was born in 1978. yes I know what you mean, it sounds like somehing out of a Catherine Cookson novel set in the 1830s!

I know that my mum herself had a hideous time and suffered, someone on teh other thread made the brilliant point that she may well be stuck emotionally at the age of 17 when she had me. It would explain a lot.

I justt hank god for my dd who has been a shining light in my life.

Grace - 15 wonderful things! Ummm, I have a nice arse (actually it couldn't be classed as wonderful so...!)

How have you managed to reconcile what has happened to you in the past?

WTSA yes will def find a counseller, Atilla said that NHS referals are patchy and to try private, I will have a look and see.

"How have you managed to reconcile what has happened to you in the past?"

Hard bloody work. There's still more to do, however I can't quite believe how fast I've been working in the past few weeks!!

I reckon a nice arse is wonderful

GetOrfMoiLand - welcome! I was also raised my my emotinally abusive Grandmother while my birth mother was sht away in mental institutions. I was made to call her 'mum'. Do keep posting