'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Well, it took me until last year to feel angry enough at her, that I forced the conversations in this thread's OP. And until this year to feel at ease - which, of course, means feeling sufficiently detached to not care why she thinks/says/feels what she does. And I've been doing therapy for ten years.

A lifetime of lousy parenting takes more than a couple of weeks to forgive - if that's the right word.

Gosh just re-read my post and it sounded really abrupt apologies, it wasnt meant to I guess some of that anger is still peeping through.
I agree detachment emotionally is key. Anger is a good place to begin that process. Before I was able to see things clearly I was still angry but it was spilling onto the wrong people, including myself.
I cant believe somedays just how far Ive come.

starting thought you might find this link useful too here

Smithfield, I was cheering at your post! Nothing wrong with justified anger

Thanks for the hug, Starting, you did me good.

Hi all just a quickie. Really crap week. Huge fights with H, not sure whats happening anymore.

Mother has fallen over and hurt her self. Afraid I haven't run to her aid. Just realised there is a pattern to her "falls" ie. when the attention is off her.

Thought I was making progress this week. Have always justified parents actions but after reading the Toxic Parents book have realised that their motives and intent is not important how it made me feel is important and real.

Been a bit over shadowed by H and the marriage lack of marriage thing. Why cant I leave it alone instead of wanting a solution. I guess it feels a bit like a repeat of mothers behavior. Counsellor recons I hide my feelings in practicality instead of addressing them but its really tough.

Sorry rambling

Ramble away, my love.

How annoying-upsetting about your mother's fall. What you've done there - realising the pattern - is quite something you know? Congratulations ... even if it has left you feeling a bit conflicted. The way you feel is important and real, Sal. It's sometimes hard to accept this, after decades of squashing your own feelings in favour of others'. I don't know about you, but it made me very, very angry (still does, sometimes.) That I developed such a beautifully-crafted, complex - and self-damaging - system of not caring about my self.

Of course you want a quick solution to everything! Who doesn't? Hang in there. You'll be fine - and you will come through this, shining.

Sorry for clumsy post. I'm tired - going to get an early night: practising self-care

sal here is a link to my post Sat 12-Jan-08 16:05:26 . I was heavily pg, unwell and was taking a break from my toxic mother to deal with 'myself' and my needs for once. My mother's response was to develop a lump in her breast
Your instincts are correct.
This is classic behaviour Im afraid. Doesn't make it easier to deal with, but seeing it finally for what it is...a huge step toward detaching.

grace Thanks for your post. I had been worrying also about my insistence you tell Nell (who turns out to be your frightened inner child) to bog off .
So glad you are taking care of you. x

diving Thanks for your ongoing support. I've been too in awe of your recent posts to give you a reply and I apologise for that. Just want you to know I digest everything you say.
I have also read 'Igor the bird who couldnt sing'. Read it to ds and dd.
I am resigning this week. Draws in deep breath. Still wobbly but determined. x

Well done, Smithfield. There is no way Nora could realistically accuse you of making a rash decision there, you have really thought it through and chose to do what's right for you, at this time. I wish you luck & hope you get any support you need at work

When you wrote about the school mum asking "searchingly" about your woek plans, you wondered who you were projecting onto her ... Nora, by any chance?

I've been trying to go through a few little things with Nell. It's rather scary atm, so I used my post from the previous page as a starting point. Example: dragons under the bed for when I was late or hadn't brushed teeth. See, it was all about bad things happening if I got stuff 'wrong'. Always, with every single thing. Now, another way of looking at it would be: If I go to bed at a good time, and wash before I do, then I'll feel nice & cosy in bed and feel good when I get up - which is what sensible parents would emphasise, only I didn't have those.

It's quite startling to realise I have no motivation to do things, other than fear of bad consequences if I don't do them. This is linking up with my cat-hair carpet, but I'm not ready to internalise it yet! There are one or two exceptions, such as travelling and getting a massage, which I added in later life. For all the essentials that get us through life, though, I need a 180 degree turnaround in my attitude. Hmm ... !

QueenOfWhatever, I tend to think you should address your feelings to your dad when YOU feel ready, not to anyone else's agenda. You owe him nothing. I don't know if the meeting at your sister's has anything to do with this, but the same holds true if not. How well do you get on with your sister? Is she supportive?

Wishing everyone a good Saturday

Thanks Grace and Smithfield. Was thinking I was going mad thinking she used illness to get attention but somehow I know I am not.

She had breast cancer 3 years agao and one of our male friends who rarely comments on anyone else said "well she has been waiting for this her whole life" it kind of summed it up!

Feeling better H wise this morning too. Not happy but better. ime to try and concentrate a bit more on me a bit less on him.

sal Thankfully it turned out to be nothing serious but this is typical of my mum (sounds like your too) of turning the attention back to herself. It makes for great viewing at weddings. Even my dad says how my mum managed to ruin all three of his childrens weddings to date. Three down one more to go.

Its occurred to me that a huge element of this battle I have had with myself over giving up my current work has been to do with me being unable to 'give' to myself. Most of whatever I have done to date has been to either satisfy others needs, or to gain approval from others. I guess when you look at it like that then it is all part and parcel of the same thing.
I try and fulfill what I percieve as others needs in order to gain their approval.
I have got better because at long last I am starting to question things, which means I must be beginning to reconnect with my emotions which I have managed to block for so long.
If for example this same scenario arose some time back, the scenario I mean of having come into some money I would have most definately remained trapped in my current work and bought a larger house instead. Or (as we had some discussion about and was on the verge of doing), adding to this house.
Not that there is anything wrong with any of the above but I would have to have squashed down my own needs again and remained 'desperately unhappy'. So sacrificing myself...and for what? We live in a 'good enough' house in a 'good enough' area. My son goes to a great school.
If I am honest..the real reason would be to impress my family. In an attempt to prove myself to them.
This strategy was the same one (I realise only now) that I employed when I was living overseas. After a while I grew homesick and was beside myself with the need to return to the uk. There was nothing wrong with where I was, it just wasnt for me anymore. It wasnt home.
Somehow where I was living had won their approval for the first time. For their own selfish needs and wants... for them it became a haven and a bolthole as they went through their messy acrimonious divorce.
A cheap holiday and something to gloat over with friends. More importantly it all became part of their one-upmanship with each other as well. Each of them vying to be the one to spend christmas with me so they could stick two fingers up at the other.
Guess how many times either has asked to spend christmas with me in the five years since I have been back in the uk? Yep zero.
So I realise now that when for the last few years I was dreaming of returning to australia I wasnt thinking about myself or my family but of regaining my longed for fantastical position of being finally approved of.
I think when I am scanning the faces of loved ones now, asking am I doing the right thing now, giving up my work. What I am really asking them for is something they can't give me. Im asking for that rite of passage for every child to be loved for 'who they are' and not 'what they can provide' to their parent. To finally be 'good enough' as I am, and as a result of that be able to lead a happier more fulfilling life.
THe strangest part of it all is that up until now I had always had financial limitations holding me back, and I think this was part of my training. How could I be free if I was financially secure. My financial ineptititude bound me to them.
Except somehow I learnt something along the way from my father and now find myself in the bizarre position of being financially independant from everyone (even dh). I can no longer hide behind that excuse either now.
So maybe it really is time to break free .Time for therealsmithfield to give herself the approval she so craves.

Cor blimey You go, girl!

I still struggle with "good enough", even though I've known it is good enough since the glorious day (2003) when I realised this simple fact! These conversations are doing me a world of good - almost every time I read a post now, a couple more of my "dots" join up.

Thank you, everybody.

Although I have been around for a while in the thread "Toxic Dad ? sorry a bit complex" I have only just noticed this thread. I wish I had noticed it before.

Well as you read this my Dad is in a cell and is facing a long custodial sentence for what he did to me. Touching and hitting in various combinations coupled with him being stupid enough to keep a diary.

All too sordid and nasty to write about in detail. Basically a clash of wills. I would not cry out or beg him to stop when he used a belt so he cheated and used a cane instead.

I have a wonderful support team now. DH and MIL and FIL right at the top but my friends and Head Teacher have been great even without knowing all the nasty details. I owe them a lot.

Oh god, I hate it when other people start trying to take over my life! I turned down my Dad's summons to my sister's by telling my sister I didn't want to see him because of the way he has treated me since I left my ex last year. DD is with her Dad that weekend anyway, so I told her she could tell him I was away that weekend.

She was suprisingly OK (this is all by e-mail, we rarely talk in RL) and said she would do this and thinks he is 'v old' (code for difficult, but whaddya gonna do). Then I was going to post last night but got another e-mail from her which completely floored me. She said she found him difficult, she chose to stick with it but wanted me to do what was right for me, she wasn't going to judge any decision I made. Cue floods of tears.

My sister and I have a distant relationship, largely as a result of the divide and conquer mentality of my family. I'd been expecting my sister to guilt trip me and tell me I was being selfish, oversensitive, imagining things (hmm, wonder where that voice came from?). I'm a bit taken aback that there could be any other way of viewing me.

In the meantime, my Dad (who I've not heard hide nor hair from for three months) has now phoned eight times in the last week, including three times this morning. I haven't answered any calls and he still hasn't left/won't leave a message. Textbook I know, I've not said anything but he's already picked up that I'm not automatically responding to him. It's making me feel very unsafe. I have drafted a letter saying I don't want contact with him for six months. Not sure if I can send it.

twoteachers your toxic dad thread has had an incredible impact on me. I may come back and ask you more questions if I can, but for now the best of luck in the coming week. You will get through it.

Twoteachers your thread was one of the first things i read on MN and I found your strength incredibly inspiring. I hope everything goes well for you this week. Stay strong.

OK am a bit upset which is probably my own fault for going it alone doing the Homecoming healing exercises (and I've only read a couple of pages, ffs) so not a great start. He says "to be a good parent you must have healed your own wounded inner child" and that doing [ie parenting your own kids] the opposite of what your parents did is as equally damaging as doing what your parents did.

Right so does this mean that my DD is screwed? I had PND for about 18 months and muddled through it without any real help (useless GP, useless counsellor), I just got better over time esp when I stopped BF. I truly believe my upbringing contributed to the PND and at the very least, having no family support made me feel worse. At times i totally lost the plot with her. But the vast, vast, vast majority of the time I sang, read, played, smiled through my frequent tears, kissed, cuddled,laughed, took her out every day to groups, the park etc (even though I just wanted to stay in bed most of the time) and tried to be a good parent. Even though sometimes I hated her I tried my hardest never to show her this because I knew this was my fault not hers. This is the exact opposite to what my mother did with me, her hatred of me was palpable.

DD is 2 now and we are very close and have a largely lovely time together; although of course her parents are her world and who else does she have, her situation is no different to mine with my (bastard) parents, so her being a happy little girl isn't an indication of anything, right? "I took you to the park" now, "I took you to stately homes" in the future, but you were screwed from the moment you were born because your mother is an infant adult.

My bastard parents win again and they didn't even have to do anything!

Sorry to rant, and not expecting anyone here to make it better, it is what it is.

Refreshers, I don't know whether this is going to help you or not. Keep in mind I have no children of my own. I was a qualified and successful nanny for some years. I specialised in 'difficult' children - ie: unhappy parents - and felt my own childhood informed my care. I was very aware of how children think & feel, etc, and never failed to leave a child happier and more confident than when I started.

But it wasn't until I started "Homecoming" that I really saw children for the glorious, fragile, trusting, hopeful, wonderfully gifted little bundles of humanity they are. This is hard to explain but perhaps you will understand!

I think you can certainly be a good parent: even a great one; without fully healing yourself as long as you're careful to do so. I also think, however, that there are extra levels of joy & engagement with one's children, that are perhaps not available to people who were damaged as children (and are unhealed). Bradshaw might be meaning something like that.

I don't feel you need to worry about whether you're damaging your DD - does anyone else's feedback suggest you might be? What's your own evaluation? - but that your own inner-child work may access extra levels of love within you. If that makes any sense ...

Starting, that's a wonderful post! Thanks