'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Thank you to people who responded to my post, as I sometimes think people don't know what to say about it so they don't say anything. I felt a bit down when I wrote it and didn't realise some of it was actually 'progress' in my thinking! But yes, I can see that I have allowed myself to think about myself and not just him, more than previously.

My instinct is to believe that he has changed and will not reoffend but occassionally something makes me question whether I should trust my judgement. I definitely believe he himself believes he has changed. The logic is all in place in his mind, but as some of us know, sometimes we can see the logic of why we shouldn't feel a certain way but the emotions are still hard to shift. I believe he can see why he shouldn't behave in certain ways and intends not to and has the intelligence and strength of mind and new ways of thinking to control himself. So this is a change, but I believe if you have a long held 'perversion', you will probably still feel 'urges', so this aspect may not change but will just be controlled.

I think if I was brave enough to ask him (which I'm not, and feel it may be unwise) he would say he doesn't have a 'perversion', but that he was motivated mainly by anger and other negative feelings. I do believe anger 'fuelled' it, and he has dealt with a lot of the anger by working on understanding the root causes of his negative feelings from bad experiences that he had as a child. So there would be less 'fuel' behind any urges he still had. My instinct is to believe there are probably still deep rooted perverted thoughts, not even his fault really but due to abuse he suffered himself, but that he now has the strength and clarity of thinking, and more emotional stability, not to act on them.

How on earth can the 'official' people measure how changed someone is? It must be a really difficult decision. They have to be really careful (rightfully so) and my brother says that people have admitted that nobody wants to be held responsible for releasing someone and them reoffending when the media jumps on stories about sex crimes the way it does, and people seem more outraged about sex crime than about murder. Their decision could have more to do with this than on a deep understanding of my brother. He accepts that they have to be very cautious and seems more accepting of his situation than I would have expected. Of course if he, or I, said to any of the 'official' people that we believed he is one of the exceptions that can really change and is unlikely to reoffend, they would say 'That's what they all say!'. Maybe it is what they all truly believe and I am too inexperienced of the world to know that even when people believe they won't reoffend they still most often do. How many people have experience (as in knowing people in the situation) of this type of thing anyway?

Writing these posts has reminded me that although I feel sorry for him and can see good things as well as bad in him, his punishment for all that he did is deserved and this helps me let go of feeling upset on his behalf and guilty when I have any thoughts 'against' him. He is taking the punishment with more acceptance than I had expected, which is a good thing, but it still needs to be hard otherwise it wouldn't be a punishment and society would be teaching people that it is ok to do what he did.

Maybe I should let go of the feeling that I need to know for certain how much he has changed. Maybe I could be content with knowing he has made steps in the right direction but that some of the 'badness' may remain and whether it will 'come out' in the future is something I will not know until it happens or doesn't. Maybe I don't have to think he is 100% wonderful (like Grace said) and don't need to feel this in order to feel a deep bond with him because maybe I don't need to bond deeply with him anymore. Maybe I don't have to reject him totally but I don't need the deep relationship either. Maybe I could have a slightly shallower one which doesn't require me thinking he is perfect. After all, I've let go of searching for a deep bond with other people in an obsessive and addictive way, even when it has been unhealthy long term or immoral, when I realised I was doing it to try to make up for something that was missing during childhood, but that it never was going to make up for it, just cause disappointment/sadness relived.

Sorry to go on.

Hello I posted here briefly a couple of weeks ago and received some very kind greetings, for which a belated thank you. I have since read Toxic Parents and the full extent of this thread, and am reeling from the relief/recognition/grief/general emotional turmoil of it all.

I wonder if I can post on here and perhaps get a little advice. Many of your posts have already been a source of great comfort, just knowing there are people out there who know how I feel.

Without going into specifics, I suffered from emotional and physical abuse from both parents (both NPD I believe) and there is a strong element of emotional sexual abuse in my history with them. I've been depressed for as long as I can remember and suicidal on and off since I was 11. I was aware from an early age that to get away from my parents and their squalid lives and be my own person I had to excel. I have to an extent and on the outside I "have it all". On the inside there's a big black hole, I feel like a complete failure as a human being and I've no idea who I really am.

I have one DD and am 7.5 months pregnant. I have been in emotional hell this pregnancy. I had no support from family after DD and had what I thought was PND but was diagnosed as an inability to socially interact. Whilst I have friends, and good ones at that, I keep my distance emotionally, feel crippling depression after any social event, analysing it, worrying about how I may have been regarded by others etc. This kept me away from most other mums after DD and with a husband who works very long hours I was alone. I did have a couple of sessions of therapy but the therapist seemed very judgmental and then let me down re an appointment and blamed me and I did not go back. I was too frightened to try ADs. I did not bond with DD until she was well over 1 yo and I still have problems with patience etc. Things did get better slowly after I finished breastfeeding/DD got a bit older and easier to look after. Needless to say, I am terrified of all this happening again when DC2 is born.

I feel hatred towards my parents and oldest sister whom I also believe is NPD and my father's enabler in some ways. I have not spoken to OS in a year not seen and barely spoken M&D since last November. Cutting them out of my life is the only way I can deal with them now. I've not spoken to my older brother in around 5 years except in the most superficial terms. There are so may nuances/issues/events I could write a book, but in a nutshell, it's all really fucked up.

I have a wonderful younger sister who is on the same page as me re our family history/experience and has done a great deal to help me feel sane and not that I imagined it all; but she is in a happy place having thrown off the shackles of a bad few years including being my older sister's emotional dumping ground. She lives in the same town as my parents and has to put up with them (she does this uncomplainingly, the angel). I talk to her a bit about this, but don't want to overburden her or take my older sister's place as a user.

My DH is a lovely fellow, but can't get his head around any of this. He pretty much grew up on Waltons Mountain and can't seem to engage with or empathise with with what I've been through. He's only now, after 5 years together, getting the full picture from me so I can't really blame him. He likes to analyse, rationalise, make logical sense of things. It's not what I need. I think I want him to give me the unconditional love, support etc of a proper parent, to weep with me, tell me I'll be alright, just make this fucking mess better and make it go away. In my worst moments I've been on my knees just begging him to help me and he just doesn't know what to do. He's not my parent, he can't parent me. I spent my whole life trying to cater for other peoples' needs and surpressing my own because someone else's were always more important. First my parents, then my ex for 13 years (more fucked up than me), now DH and DCs. I just want someone to take care of me.

I've felt stronger since discovering this thread and reading some of the books you've recommended, validated if not healed. After all that, here is my question: is it possible to heal without formal therapy? Has anyone gone it alone successfully? I'm reading Bradshaw's Homecoming but have come to a full stop at the Reclaiming Your Inner Self part because he says you need a friend or therapist to help you through. I feel a desperate need to do something in the 7 weeks I've got left before DC2 is born. I know I can't cure myself in 7 weeks, but if I try the exercises in the rest of this book without a "shoulder" to lean on am I making a big mistake, or will it at least be a start and help me cope with any negative stuff that comes on post birth (esp the inevitable contact I will have to have with family and expectations to visit etc)? I will not be able to have formal face to face therapy until after the birth and possibly not then for a long time as we are moving to a different city in the summer and I don't want to start something I can't finish.

Some of you have referred to online therapy. Is there any one therapist/ organisation anyone can recommend? At least perhaps I could start that straight away.

Sorry this turned into an essay, not what I intended. thanks for your patience and your help and best wishes to you all.

Hi, Bagofrefreshers This is going to be quick and is NOT meant as advice! I did the Homecoming book by myself, writing copiously in a diary to help me stay grounded. It wasn't easy - I cried buckets - but it was possibly the most valuable thing I've ever done. I did have a therapist at the time (I took the book away on holiday) and phoned her once, around the point where you are. I can't tell you what's right for you, but have answered your question.

If you chose to seek support on here, I'm sure we would try to help. In the end, though, it's a very personal journey and only you know what you need to make it. Good luck

Grace, thank you for your response. I appreciate that it's a personal journey and you can't give advice on something like this. But just knowing that you did do it alone and found it so valuable helps tremendously. I think I just need some courage. I have already started to write things down, thanks to posters here saying how much it helps, and it really does. As for the crying, I seem to do that anyway all the time, so I may as well put those tears to good use!! Feel very sorry for poor unborn DC2, hate to think of all the toxic waste he's swimming in at the mo....hopefully I can make it up to him by being a better mum to him when he is born than I was to DD.

Thanks again and good luck to you too x

bagofre I have done a lot by myself and use this site a lot too especially when I feel stuck, which I do at the moment.
I do think it sounds like you could really use some extra support now though?
I have just started looking into online counselling myself and have found someone but because Ive only just got going I cant say yet how good this person is. Instinctively I feel she will be.
If you want the detail let me know and i will cat you or set up a seperate email fro you to get the details.

I am being triggered left right and centre at them moment.
It is occurring to me just how much I seek approval. Im sure everyone needs approval from time to time.
But I seem to need it from 'EVERYONE' ALL of the time. Especially now when I am going through 'stuff', layers, emotional shedding, which I seem to be doing in ernest at the moment.
Yet I know in reality that everyone has their own agenda, belief system, their own things going on which would make it impossible for EVERYONE to give me their approval ALL the time.
Im confused as to what exactly I am doing and why I am doing it. Am I projecting? If so Who am I seeing?
For example there is one of the school mums. It 'feels' as though she is continually prying into my business, especially wrt work which of course is a very touchy area for me atm.
She looks me in the eye and says things like 'Oh are you not at work today then?', but it feels like every blinkin five minuites. This person isn't a 'close' friend as such but is within a group who I guess I am friends with but at a fairly superficial level.
Today I said yes but working from home (which I was) and then '...well it doesnt matter because I am resigning shortly'. Looks me in the eyes, searching my face for giveaways as she asks 'Oh ARE you? What are you going to do then?'
'Oh I Thought I'd take my yacht and go for a sale around the world whilst dh runs his business and takes care of the kids'
Of course I didnt say that. But I felt this rush of embarrasment meshed with apprehension / anxiety of 'what' do I say?
I suddenly felt like a naughty child who'd got off the chair at the wrong time.
I felt the need to justify myself and I felt I was being asked to justify myself.
Let me clarify by saying I know this 'is' my ishoo, but not sure why it is so desperate in me at the moment.
Perhaps I was seeing my mother. She would use fear to stop me in my tracks. I can hear her now in the background. Sigh 'Why oh why smithfield tut tut...why throw away such a good job'.
I came home a deflated mess,yet knowing I am more than likely being triggered, but that doesnt seem to help stop the mist of depression descending. I am tonight fighting tooth and nail... but it's hard.
This is one example but there seems to have been several similar conversations today.
is everyone else riddled with so much self doubt? Or is it just me

OK, need advice as I don't know what to do. I am an intermittent poster but frequent reader.

So very brief synopsis - NPD, vengeful, alcoholic mother and cold, distant, disciplinarian father. Generic unhappy childhood, parents divorced when 11, Dad moved out when I was 13, my Mum went off the rails alcohol wise and I 'parented' my older sister. At 16, sister went to Australia, Mum went to clinic in home country and I had to live with my very unwilling father. Went to Uni at 17, fraught relationship with my now sober but stil NPD Mum, cut contact at 27.

Friendly but offhand relationship with my Dad until I met my ex since which he has been offhand and dismissive. Met my abusive ex when 33, left him when 39 (last summer) following hospitalisation from stress-induced collapse. Diagnosed with conversion disorder.

So, always knew my Mum was a problem. But since I escaped from my ex (and it was very much an escape) my memory has come back in a very major way. This culminated last week in a therapy session with me reliving my Dad raping me on the sofa when I was eight years old.

I have now been summoned (via my sister) to take DD (5) and meet my Dad at her house on 1st May. I have no idea how to handle this and feel very scared. What shall I do?

queenofwhatever what does your gut say? Mine screams dont go.
How do you think you would react being in a room with this man if you went without dd? This is another possibility if you feel you 'want' to confront him. My feeling is with such newly recovered memories this wouldn't be good timing now even if it is something you want for the future.

really feel for you what a dreadful hidden memory for you to have uncovered .

Well, the weird thing is I actually feel much better for it. Somehow I've always known, but never been able to articulate it or put my finger on exactly what was bothering me. I think it's significant that it came back in a controlled, therapeutic setting and that it was me who instigated the recall.

I don't want to confront my Dad (yet, ever, really don't know). I am still in a childlike state of fear that I can't say no to visiting because I'm not allowed to, have to do what he wants etc. and couldn't justify my decision.

I also have this feeling that if I told my sister, she wouldn't believe me and would say I was making it up. I have nothing to base this on, but it makes me wonder if I tried to tell people when I was younger and I wasn't believed. In my flashback I was answering all my therapist's questions but 'knew' I wasn't allowed to say it was my Dad but couldn't say why I wasn't allowed to.

Message withdrawn

Hi *Bagofrefreshers"

Not sure I am yet qualified to help too much. However I had PND with my first son but second time round it was absolutely fine regardless of the ongoing family issues surrounding me. This time round you will know what you are doing in a practical sense so it should relive some of the stress of a new baby. Re the relatives do you have a friend that can be there at the same time, I used this tactic, she was aware of the issues and acted as a buffer between us. I also timed a lot of visits just before I had to go and see the Health Visitor (no one is going to follow you to check thats where you are going). In the meantime try and coset yourself a bit and take care of you while you have the chance

Message withdrawn

Therealsmithfield - thank you for your response, once again it's reassuring to know that other people have done this alone. I know I need some help, but to be honest, I'm not sure where it will come from at the moment. My midwife referred me for ante-natal depression counseling, but the counsellor can't fit me in until after my due date. With us moving in the summer, I don't want to embark on private counseling only to have to start again when we move. But I have to do something otherwise..........

May I come back to you re the online counseling? I will do a bit of research myself, I think. In the meantime, I hope your counselor works out

I understand your need for approval all the time from everyone. It hacks me off no end, especially when I find myself seeking it from people who aren't actually worthy of my approval, let alone vice versa, or people who just simply don't matter in my life. I'm constantly playing out scenarios of what I should have said (usually some variation on "oh just fuck the fuck off") and hating myself for whatever lame, simpering response I did in fact give. I can understand entirely why it's gotten you down.

For me, I think it's because I don't have any self esteem or self worth, so I am overly reliant on what others think of me or what I think other people think of me, iyswim. It was ingrained in me as a child that what I thought and felt was of no importance and that conditioning has fed into my entire life because I've pretty much projected onto everyone my parents value system, which is thus: to be loved/accepted/liked I have to be a "good girl". To be a good girl, I have to stroke the other person's ego no matter how unreasonable or irrational they are being; and not answer back/have an opinion/have a feeling/want something for myself. I am not to be boastful or proud of an achievement. I am to be quiet and modest, not to make noise, not to be visible even. To do any of the above was to be a "bad girl" and that was the worst thing that could ever happen to you in life, nobody will want you, like you, love you, and bad things would happen to you, like miscarriages, attacks, failure. And if I did react, I was over-reacting, showing off, being an embarrassment etc.

This happened to me recently. For the last 2 months I've been having medical tests for a mystery condition I've suddenly developed. I was concerned for unborn DC2's well being but wanted to keep the matter private. DH blabbed to a friend/colleague, who in turn appears to have blabbed to all of DH's friends as was apparent when we met up last week and I was getting pointed questions about how I am..... "but really, how are you?". Well, rather than say something glib or a polite none of your business I just got flustered and jabbered on about having had a blip, as if I had to justify myself and be grateful for their "concern" for me (which, as far as this particular individual is concerned, was no concern, just an angling for gossip and a voyeur's need to be involved in someone else's drama). I then lost my rag with DH when we got home. DH pouted about his not being allowed to talk to his friend. Well, no, my brain screamed, not my personal medical issues to the world's biggest gossip and your ex's best friend, no. Of course, I ended up apologising for being a bitch and not appreciating his stress and upset at my medical condition.

The stupid thing is, pre DD, I was a litigation lawyer, did all my own court advocacy. I was like a bloody tiger arguing on behalf of other people, could think quickly on my feet and rarely lost a case. It was a great outlet, I think I worked out a lot of my rage through my clients' cases. Wish I could be a tiger for myself instead of a scared little mouse.

Queenofwhatever - so sorry this has happened to you. From your post, this recollection sounds like a breakthrough moment, and perhaps you will become stronger and less fearful for remembering and working this through with your counselor. Like therealsmithfield, my gut reaction would be to stay away from your dad until you've worked through this memory a bit more in therapy. Forgive me if this is an inappropriate thing to say.

Ramble alert.

Thank you, everybody, for today's posts which are giving me food for thought and enlightenment Have you noticed how each of us seems to go through an intensive period of consideration & then go quiet for a while? It makes me think of plants growing (Spring and all that, heh) - seedlings grow so hard, they can move a big stone though ever so tiny, then they potter around in the earth for a bit, getting stronger & waiting for the next metamorphosis.

I think I know why I am choosing to live in a pigsty. It's being going on for quite a long time now, and Nell's been giving me hell (rhyme not coincidental) about it for years. It's sort of a sticky-out-tongue, "I can live how I like and I'm NOT cleaning my bedroom!" childish rebellion. But: BUT! it's not that simple, for I wasn't made to clean my bedroom. Moaning and nagging about housework, however, was a major feature of Little Grace's family life - it was one of the many guilt-tripping, rash-inducing, violently-emphasised tools of control against my mother. Mum's house is, in fact, so dirty that I surreptitiously clean it twice a year. I know she prefers it clean, and understand why she doesn't do it. Look, I'm replicating that, all by myself, in my own home ... sane, me? No way.

With due respect to Edna & Nora, I think I'm on to something with Fucky Nell. She's maybe more of a wayward cousin than a sister to Edna/Nora. Serial therapists have hit a wall with my inner critic, concluding that I've inernalised the 'voice' to such an extent, I can't kill her off without killing myself as it were. Two of them encouraged me to do some reading around the 'Shadow Self' and, from that, I understood that what I needed was (is) to embrace & appreciate those sides of my personality that I struggle against. Making 'Nell' female, and naming her, has been a tremendous gift - which I owe directly to you guys. We are in a process of negotiation. She's the embodiment of the pointy elf who, when I was little, sat on the bathroom windowsill, warning me about everything I would be criticised for during that day; she's the dragons under my bed, waiting to snap at me if I was late or forgot to brush my teeth; she's the scary monster that came out of the woodgrain in the wardrobe at night ... she's every tool my frightened mind created, and her only purpose is to protect me from parental rage. I hope to help her realise I'm a grown-up now; there are no monsters ...

Fucky Nell's anxious warnings are, I suspect, what led me to keep on trying to please the "takers" throughout my life. She knows no better but, now, I'm trying to help her learn how to feel safe (or, at least, safer). I may have to let the cat-hair build up to knee level whilst that goes on

Somebody (Saddest?) wrote, on another thread, about losing the magical thinking. Only today, reading a newspaer, I automatically looked for the horoscope page. I couldn't find it and suddenly realised - oh joy! - I haven't sought out my horoscope since before the beginning of this year. I've noticed my sister's fixation on 'knowing' the Lottery numbers, etc, has also diminished. This may seem completely irrelevant or meaningless to some of you. All I can say is: I am utterly thrilled to find that, without noticing it, I've stopped believing in magical forces. Science reveals enough, daily, to satisfy my desire for wonder and mystery. There's no need to invent it.

Speaking of which, "The Secret" is the most narcissistically damaging best-seller I can imagine
Here endeth my ramble for today. There may be more later

I did want to reply specifically to your absolutely brilliant posts above! But thought anything I wrote might turn out a bit loaded.

Message withdrawn

startingtoheal - Mmm, it's like talking to a creature from an alien planet sometimes, isn't it?! At least you know you're the sane one! Good for you, re DD's mud-pie bedroom

... sorry for the trigger ...

Divingintoeternity and Sal thanks for your responses, I will think about everything you've said over the weekend. So much I could say right now, feel the floodgates opening because of all the sympathetic voices on this site, but life goes on and I need to get on with the stuff that's not in my head. 6 months on a desert island just my laptop, my books and me would do the trick, I swear....

startingtoheal you have just described my mother to a T. This is exactly what she does too.
I could come home from school and say I was being bullied and she would ask what I had done to make someone do that .
I believe its part and parcel of casting me in my role as scapegoat.
I think now that my mother is NPD for sure and NPD classically choose children for specific roles, scapegoat was mine.
So for her, I dont actually exist, except in that capacity...so not in any real terms. In fact the only thing that exists for my mother is her own needs, wants, desires. And for some reason one of her needs is for me to be wrong.
My mother would swear black was white, day was night but she had to match my wrongness with her rightness.
I just assume she needed someone she could control, manipulate who would make her feel superior, better about herself. After all isnt there a shattered sense of self beneath every narcissist?
I dont know really. I Dont know that I will ever understand my mother. I do think understanding/coming to terms with the extent of her own damage helped me to stop the play out of self destruction. For a long long time I truly believed I really was the problem .

You might be interested in Saddest's conversation here.

I'm much more at ease with my crazy mother, now I simply accept that she lives on Planet MyMum, where everything is very different from the way it is here on Earth.