'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Grace Getting there, but still have hang ups with food. I too have battled eating disorders throughout my life. I do hope I can do things differently for dd.
I try and focus on being healthy and hope dd will see fitness and taking care of yourself rather than body types and weight.
Wish I felt and knew all this in my 20's though .
Funny but I was thinking about something you said a while back about not being able to feel empathy/ sorrow for your inner child and anger toward your parents/abusers. I was wondering if you had any pics of yourself as a little girl. I found relating to myself in that way helped. It's so hard when you are already in a womans body with all those memories eroded, relating to the small vulnerable girls we were. Pictures help remind us.

Goodness, startingtoheal, it's hardly surprising you wanted to 'forget' all that! The child you were must have felt so miserable - and what a vile thing to have witnessed, when your brother got hit. I think very many of us have used eating disorders, exercise addiction & work in a sort of tangential attempt to gain control over ... those parts of our lives we couldn't possibly control, as we were children. I wonder if you see it that way, too?

I agree with you that the only way to really handle it all is to face it. So, welcome

Smithfield, I'm 100% sure your DD won't get any body-image disorders from you! I do feel for parents in our present time - especially of girls - with so much warped attention on thinness & (cheesy) sexiness. It must be very difficult to instil a solid sense of self-worth and healthy values, against that background.

Susie Orbach's "Fat Is A Feminist Issue" fixed my dieting problem. It's been updated, though the original is still totally relevant IMO. For one of the exercises, I had to stuff the kitchen with more crisps & chocolate (my binge foods) than I could possibly eat. My husband's reaction was eye-opening ... yeah, he was a narcissist who called me fat. What a surprise (not!)

Think I may get that book too, thanks. I was on a diet at 10 as well but apparently it was my idea as I wanted to fit into a skirt my cousin had given me......! Not surprisingly I was anorexic at Uni and binge now. Anything is worth a try as I am still trying to sort out other issues at counselling, this one is a bit down the list!

Feel like a weight has been lifted today. inally realised that even if H said he was coming back I wouldn't trust him anyway. So we are living in the same house, sep rooms and concentrating on building a friendship while he supports me to get through counselling. If anything else happens it has to be a joint decision but who knows. After we get back from the family disney hol we will decide wether to carry on in this vein or if he going to move out. I then have 4 weeks off work to help the kids. He will move into the studio in the garden (sounds grand but really not!) so he can be close for kids. All of a sudden I am planning a future. Going to set up my own bank account asap, soething I should have done years ago when I discovered his gambling. Feel so much more in control.

On the parent side I had a huge revelation. I have just realised that all my mothers behaviours stem from her needing me to need her and I dont need her. Now I feel I have the power. The counsellor pointed out I have stood up to her as she doesn't give child care advice so if I have done it once I can do it again!

Life is actually looking sunny. I am sure I will come down with a bumb soon, such is the nature of depression but I am going to make the most of today and Im off to the garden centre to find some great plants!

Have a good day everyone xx

Yes I think at times it was about control (the dieting part) I remember at one stage i would only allow myself a black coffee for breakfast, a diet drink for lunch and a lean cuisine (remember those) at dinner. I would put extra veggies with the lean cuisine..woo hoo and then i would swim or run afterwards. Every day was the same. I could barely get up a flight of stairs at work without being exhausted and light headed.
Thing is i lived at home at this stage. My mum never noticed. My boss at the time kept saying 'are you ok? Are you eating properly...you're getting too thin!'. My nanna (who was dying of cancer at the time) would say 'your losing too much weight!'.
But my self absorbed mother never took any notice.
On the other hand the binge eating I do think is linked to feelings of not being good enough. My dad loves his food and I link some of my better memories to being taken out to dinner by him, and him rewarding my eating with approval etc. I guess I link eating with those fleeting moments of being noticed approved of by my dad.
grace If I put all that kind of food in my kitchen it would all be gone that night .
About not being noticed, I was thinking about my depression yesterday and I just suddenly thought about how bad it got for me. days when I couldnt get out of bed.
Still my mother did not notice. I would hope to god if either of my children suffered like this. If I saw the vitality drain from them I 'would' notice.

sal glad you are feeling positive you seem to be working through things slowly and surely. I have to say that it does sound as though your dh has offloaded a lot of the responsibility for the relationship breaking down onto your shoulders.

startingtoheal What a dreadful childhood you've had Yes, no wonder you needed to disassociate fom it all. I dont know how else, mentally you could have survived it all?
Perhaps your mother has done the same? That doesnt help saying that I know but it wass/is probably her way of dealing with it too. She is not strong enough to handle the truth. But then if she had been a stronger person she would have got you and your brother the hell out of there wouldnt she
That's the hardest part though isnt it, dealing with all the pain of knowing your mother could have, should have protected you, but didnt. Having all that anger/sadness inside of you about that fact and having no recourse because it bounces off them like some huge impenetrable brick wall.

Heh, maybe you have to be reading the book for it to work ... It was more than anyone could possibly eat, even on the biggest binge ever! The idea being that, now it's all available & waiting for you, there's no magic to it anymore. I could have 2 squares of chocolate, 2 bars or 2 kilos: my choice. Guess what, I only binged once during the year I had the stuff in the house. XH said I'd eat it all & tried to stop me buying it. I guess he felt he was losing an aspect of his control over me. He was right!

My mother didn't notice my anorexia, either - or, rather, she kept congratulating me on how slim I was I was on a 400-calorie-a-day 'diet', with 260 of those used on a Mars bar or a bag of chips! Like you, I walked to school and back - 6 miles a day - and often did it twice, just to burn more calories. The school picked up on it; very lucky for me.

Hi exotic, I think you are right too. Thats one of the reasons I decided that I dont want him back just now and not putting any pressure on him to come back. If he cant accept his part then realistically it could just be a recurring cycle to be honest a bit like my childhood. The only way now is forward!

Oh god, does anyone else have these huge highs and lows. I was so high yesterday morning and by the evening I was in tears and just as bad today.Got counsellor tomorrow thank goodness. Maybe I need my AD's uped. Feeling very alone just now other than you all noone else really gets what I am talking about. Just found out the friend I thought I could trust told another ex-friend. The ex-f has been ok but it could so easily have turned out differently.

P.S. sorry I meant smithfield yesterday not exotic- said I was low didn't I!

sal yes, I think it is very normal to experience highs and lows. Gradually (very gradually for me) it begins to smooth out. But you have to be patient with yourself.
Try and think through what happened yesterday.
Was there something that happened/or didnt happen that then triggered some negative thoughts? Can you remember what your thought process was before you began to feel low.
It can be the tiniest thing that sets me off and the thing with depression is you become so closed off from your own thoughts and feelings its hard to reconnect again.

Since being gaslighted into therapy last autumn....suddenly I see a much larger elephant in the room than I was expecting.

Not just an abusive relationship, but a personality disordered mother, eating disorders, drugs and the ever present sexual element. In both my family and my h's family.

My word what a mess it all is. And as the scapegoat, I get off relatively lightly. relatively.

I can let my family go their own way. I have had a lifetime of horror from them. I feel a little sympathy for my sisters, and if they were to ever see the elephant one day, maybe I will listen to them.

I feel that it is much more difficult to let my marriage go. I feel so desperately sorry for him, and he is so dissacociated, he doesn't know. He just knows it's shit, and not why. I suspect that he himself may have been the victim of sexual abuse. He has no memory of his childhood, at all. He has massive issues with his body image, his weight, binge eating etc.

This thread is part of my enlightenment. Thank you all so much. It is a long journey, but I will get there, for me and for my children. I hope my h has the courage to step forward one day too.

Sal, I'm sorry you're feeling bad today - me, too! I was going to post pretty much the same as Smithfield so, instead, I'll just hold your hand and go "Mmm, it's crap sometimes, isn't it!"

I feel my bad day is the price of beating myself up (mentally) yesterday over how much I'm failing to do ... Which is quite unfair of me, really: nobody could do it all quickly! Since I slept badly last night, I've given myself permission to cheat. Using bitten-off pieces of my sleeping pills, I'm going back to bed whenever I come over all blah - and making sure I use the downtime to feel very sympathetic, caring & compassionate towards myself and Fucky Nell

Saddest you're making great progress and I totally get what you mean about the vastness of your elephant! My brothers and sisters are, I think, seeing parts of it: an ear here, a trunk there ... While I feel it's inappropriate to try & force them to take a step back and look harder, I now make sure I validate any observations they voice - you know, instead of turning it into a joke or pretending nothing happened. I do find it quite reassuring. I think they must do, too, because they listen to what I say.

It's hard because most of them are parents and, while they are aware that their own attitudes have influenced the behavioural & mental health problems of their children, I fully understand why they're scared to look too closely. Any little bits of awareness must surely contribute to the young people's future wellbeing - and of their kids, when they have them.

Smithfield, thank you for the reminder about photos. I've only got one (long story) - a formal pic of me at 11/12 with the others. I'm in school uniform and holding my lucky Troll, which I needed because I was nervous about "getting it wrong" for the photo. Poor little kid; feeling the weight of so much blame and responsibility. Compassion is goig to be my saviour, I feel. It's going to take a while - I'm still doing the reading, and there are 55 years of self-loathing to make up for - but, week by week, it's soaking through iyswim

I'm off to consider whether it will be more self-compassionate to tidy my stuff up or go back to bed - I'm not taking bets!

But I'm starting with chocolate

I think you could be right I just need to find the trigger. I had a really busy day and then one of the boys had a bad day at school which started with him stropping and ended up with him in buckets of tears. I think I just went down hill when they went to bed and I was left on my own.

I have to tell you this. My parents came round this afternoon...can only avoid them for so long! My mother was digging for information as usual and telling me how hard it was going to be for her to be nice to my H after all he has put me through...very helpful. Them she came out with the imortal line "because you belong to us"!!!!!!!!! and I wonder why I dont feel like my own person.

Hello. I can't believe I have come to the point of opening this thread having seen it pop up in Active Conversations time and time again and wondering if it would apply to me.

I actually think I have those "toxic parents" described in the OP and I can't believe it. It's something that happens to other people isn't it?

I need to change our relationship somehow and I don't know where to start. They have helped DH and me out financially a lot over the years while I've been waiting for job re-grading (which has finally come through). I can't begin to pay it all back, but right not I wish I could. I feel like it is being held over me, although they would deny that to the hilt. On the one hand the line is that me and DB are helped in equal measure and that we are only getting now what we would get in the future anyway, and in the process they are minimising the inheritance tax bill. So why do I feel that every time we have a disagreement, the financial thing is being used as a weapon against me, if not always overtly?

I have just had a run in with them over my DB, about which there is another thread at the moment. The short version is that DB has annoyed me a lot recently by not speaking to me directly but instead relaying stuff through my parents. The issue is a silly one in a way, but very important in another way as it revolves around my right as an expectant mother (and a very stressed out and worried one at that) to determine when DB and girlfriend arrange to visit (from a distance) after the birth of DC2.

I am annoyed that DB is not behaving like an adult and hasn't had the courtesy to ask me when would be convenient, rather than assuming he could come straight away and then expressing his disappointment to my mother when I asked him to wait until a couple of weeks after the baby was born. I relayed this to my mother, saying that I thought he should grow up and start communicating with me adult to adult (DH stepped in a little stronger which hasn't helped). My mother has promptly taken personal offence, taken his side against me and spent the last two evenings in floods of tears. My dad has played the health card, after DH spoke his mind to him, and both are now expecting an apology from me that I - this time - am refusing to give. I am very upset at the lack of support, and apparent lack of care about my own feelings, at what is a very very diffcult time for me.

That's it in a nutshell, but I know that this is dragging up issues that have been simmering for years. There is so much more I could say but this post would never end if I started. So, where do I go from here?

Having read some of the thread I must apologise that my post sounds really superficial and quite pathetic. But there is a whole lot more to this that I don't feel ready to go into just now. I feel that the only way I have maintained the relationship with my parents over the years has been to constantly walk on eggshells, never cause confrontation, and back down and apologise pretty darned sharpish should anything arise. I just can't go on with it any longer.

I haven't had time to read much of this lately as lots of present day stuff going on - not really awful but really tiring, so sorry for not commenting on other people's stuff.

I feel an urge to write about feelings of realisations about what is normal and what is not which keep striking me lately (although I do have PMT so can't really rely on my judgement).

I've been sad on my brother's behalf that he didn't get parole this year. I found it hard to accept when it seems like he has done everything they wanted him to do and has worked on himself really hard and tried to change. When I said this to DH he looked at me incredulously and said that I don't seem to understand the severity of his crimes and that I don't seem to think about his victims. I realised that DH's way of seeing things is a normal person's way of seeing it and was reminded again of how my brain had 'normalised' bad things that happened as a way to cope with them. 'Society' sees him as being a lot more dangerous than I do. It makes me worry about my judgement. But it also makes me think "See, I wasn't being stupid or oversensitive, he IS a psycho, and I had to live with that as a child, and everyone else sees that (everyone except my parents I think I mean, who acted like nothing was ever amiss?).

Also, in the middle of feeling sorry for him I had the sudden thought that "Now you will be imprisoned with psychos for something more like the same amount of time I was imprisoned with you while we were children living with our parents. Now I am free and you are paying for what you did to everyone, including me. It's like I say to my children when they are horrible to people - nobody will like you if you do that. Now few people like you and society rejects you for what you've done while I have a 'safe' and 'free' life now that I deserved then and deserve now". I didn't ask the thought to come, it just popped up - like the child-me-from my childhood suddenly speaking. I felt guilty for thinking it and not feeling sorry for him - the changed person that I see him as now. I felt satisfaction from the 'revenge' factor. It feels a bit like relief but I also feel very guilty and find the guilt hard to deal with.

Lately I've been enjoying being in my house more. I used to have a feeling of needing to escape and needing to go out all the time. It keeps occurring to me how homely and safe and emotionally warm my house is and what a contrast it is to the house I grew up in. I feel a sense of relief and that I have escaped. Then I think, why am I feeling it so 'late' - years and years after leaving my childhood home when, physically, I had escaped!

I was watching Waterloo Road last night and thinking about the way the boy looked at his sister with relief that she was alive and had escaped the burning caravan, and the way they looked at each other and you could see the emotional bond. It came into my head that my children have that bond and would be like that. Then it came into my head that I never felt that bond with any of my family as a child but I've tried to make myself feel bonds with them as an adult. It worries me that do I see my brother the way I want to see him because I want to feel a bond with him, instead of something else that maybe he really is. I'm 'forgetting' that we never felt that in the past so it is not built on something as long term as 'normal' brother and sister relationships. Is it something that I have 'made' happen by ignoring all the bad bits rather than something real?

When I thought about my children's relationship with each other I realised that if they treated each other in any way similar to how me and my brother were, I would think of it as not normal and the way they actually are with each other as being normal. I feel some relief to feel that 'normal' does not include having to put up with things I felt I had to put up with in the past. I don't have to wake up feeling that those feelings are an inevitable part of the day ahead any more. Maybe I can let myself start to relax (all these years later, I can't believe it!).

Wow, OSAHM, you're really coming to terms with stuff, aren't you? Give yourself a pat on the back, at the very least! With some of my siblings, I've realised I love them but don't much like them - and that this is OK. 'Normal' (balanced) people don't need to believe someone's wonderful, to love them. The fuller knowledge of who they are helps you to sensibly moderate what you're willing to do for them, or to put up with, out of love. I feel your thoughts about your brother's punishment are correct. His behaviours; his mindset; are what put him in prison and are also what led him to treat you badly - and, presumably, he didn't get parole because he hasn't changed.

Have you told your DH what you wrote in that paragraph? It'll be helpful to get his take on it, I think.

gaelicsheep, I did read your posts but was feeling a little too busy with my own ishoos to respond straight away. Please don't worry about how "bad" your experience has been. It's not about comparisons: it's about the journey we're all taking, in our own ways. It starts with acknowledging the flaws in our family relationships and, as you know, that's an uncomfortable feeling.

I wanted to ask you whether your falling-out with your brother happened between you directly, or was it engineered by your mother? You know, did she triangulate the pair of you (divide & conquer)? From your posts, it looks as if you are the family scapegoat. I wish you all good luck with your thinking around this: please post when it helps you, and do try reading some of the books

OSAHM.....Blimey! You have made my day!

I completely know that my children have that bond with each other too. I did not have it with my siblings.

I have broken the pattern! HOORAY!!!!!!!!

sal Your mother is all about 'her' feelings isnt she . No wonder you feel lost... indeed. The woman sounds typically narcisstic. I'm guessing part of you (maybe barely concious) was crying out for your mum to just be there for you for once. To put her arms around you and say there, there. Instead of 'poor me'. Or 'hurrah'...now I get sal back as my receptical.
That's the toughest part, at times like these we just dont have that support system. Not from our parents anyway. You can find it in other places though sal. As you heal there will be friends (and lovers) who will be there for you not for what you can provide them with.,

grace Compassion will be your saviour indeed. Im sorry but fucky Nell, needs to fucky off...unless she starts showing you some.
I too would take to my bed if I had someone following me around the house goading me. (actually I did used to have that someone was called mum, and now there's some old gal called edna who pops in from time to time)
You realise anyone suddenly reading the thread at this point is going to think WTF!
Anyway...I see your point about making friends with FN, but she can make her point and be allowed to stick around if she starts expressing her concerns with more empathy and compassion toward you grace. Do you see what Im saying? Or have I gone bonkers?? Tis possible

gaelic Your post did not sound superficial at all. Many of us on here, me included have parents who use finance/money to control.
You have stood up for yourself finally and I see that as hugely positive.
I know you are probably feeling terrified by it. I say you have been bullied long enough.
I hope you stand your ground, please keep posting for support.

osahm- I dont know if you wanted a response or not but actually I thought that was a very positive post. All that empathy you have for others. You are finally directing it towards yourself. When I think back to your first posts...well...I dont have to say it.

saddest That was interesting that you wrote about you getting off lighter being the scapegoat. As the family scapegoat myself I'd love to hear more about that if you want to. I think that is a new way of looking at it because previously I have always felt very much the victim. The problem with that role is it steals all your personal power in the end.

grace should read 'some respect'- not showing you some (walks off muttering)

osahm yes I meant to say the bit about the bond was very reassuring....my two love each other so so much and that makes me so so happy. I cant imagine wanting to set them against each other like my mum did/still does.

Being the scapegoat allowed me freedom therealsmithfield.

My elder sister was used as my "mothers" best friend. She endured hours of being locked in the bathroom listening to ALL the details of my "mothers" sex life and infidelities.

I felt horribly left out and isolated...I hated the blankness of that locked door, and sometimes tried to hear what they were saying. I was about eight years old and my sister nearly two years older. I can see now that I definitely got the better deal. What happened to my older sister is sexual abuse. She went on to have massive problems with sex, got a reputation for being "available" and got all kinds of infections including syphilis as a teenager.

My younger sister also has had massive problems with sex. I do not know all the details but I remember her telling me that someone had anally raped her. She had problems with drugs, and I believe she still does, as does her current partner. Her daughter, (whose father is a violent abuser, who threw her through a glass door amongst other things,) has ADHD....or does she? I think that she has just had a shit upbringing too, is sexually promiscuous, is physically aggressive, has shattered self esteem etc.

My "mother" has always hated me. She is insanely jealous and has always done whatever she can to destroy my life and relationships if it looks like anything is working out for me.

She has set both of my sisters against me, and their partners.

She decided that my ds is autistic, my older sister and her h refused to let their daughter play with him in case she "caught something"

She set up our family so that it was her and my older sister versus me and my dad. Unfortunately (or not) for me, my dad hid in a book until he got ill and died. He literally sat at one end of the sofa with his head in a book, completely unaware of anything else.

So I was alone. I got used to it. I became self sufficient and self reliant. I had a wonderful teacher...Mrs Robertson, who was disgusted by my parents, and told them so. She quite possibly saved my life. She acknowledged that it was shit for me. I was on anti depressants at twelve.

I'm not now though. I have read and read and read, sought counselling, replaced my parents, quite deliberately, with older parent figures, mentors if you like. They didn't know I was doing this, but you can find people who will fill some of the gaps.

I remember that I was astonishingly aware of just how wrong it all was. I used to beg her to be a real mum, she used to laugh and offer, sarcastically, to put on an apron and bake a cake. She didn't even like us to call her "mum". We had to call her by her name.

She has played a large part in the break down of both of my marriages....she accused mt first husband of sexually assaulting her. I suspect that actually, she came on to him, and he succumbed.

She also accuses her brother of sexual abuse when she was 11. I don't know if that is true.

I am devastated at the breakdown of this marriage. And devastated that it turned abusive. Especially when I foolishly allowed her back into our lives for two years, up till last autumn.

But I am sad, but strong. I've done it before and will do it again.

Jesus..I remember wondering if I really had any right to post on THIS thread. What a sorry mess. And I was excommunicated from them because I used the word "dysfunctional" at one of my "mothers" kangaroo courts, where they brought typed out lists of what was wrong with me!!!!

Not syphillis...Gonnorhea! What a mistake to make! Thankfully I do not know how to spell either of those words!

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