'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Grace, am sorry you are feeling wobbly and insecure. Do you know why? Have you been triggered by something/someone?

Thank you for your comments about the money. The money itself even though it is from my dad, is not toxic is it? It's not very rational of me to think that if somehow my dad's money goes into my bank account, I will somehow undo all the hard work I have done on myself.

I guess I feel guilty about taking the money and giving nothing back to my parents. My sisters will be the ones to look after our parents into their old age so I feel they should take the money as they are/will be giving something in return for it, whereas I will not. Well, that's how my sisters no doubt will look upon it. I am sure in their eyes I will look even worse than I seem now as not only have i unjustifiably cut off our parents, I am now happily taking their money and not doing anything in return and all this when they have given me so much and looked after me all these years.

I have suddenly realised that unlike some of you, who have your parents; critical and judgmental voices in your heads, I have my sisters voices. Right, I am going to think of names for them and give them a good talking to and show them the door.

Hello Everyone I've been reading this thread and it's predecessors for what feels like a good year before posting because I am not sure what it'll achieve by pouring all this out. But having had counseling 10 years ago before I became a mother to avoid the same history repeating itself I can see some patterns emerging and I'm far from happy about it.

So deep breath.
I'd like to say things started to go downhill when my parents divorced and that was certainly the line the schools trotted out whenever I was naughty, which I was but it actually started long before that.
At 18 months old I am told my dad split my lip hitting me around the face, I was told this one day by my mum when it suited her line of conversation but then when i didn't want him anywhere near my baby and suggested this incident as one of the many many reasons I was told it was an accident and he's still your dad
So this goes on until I'm around 5 years, regular slaps around the face from dad and smacks with slippers from mum.
Then one day I'm whipped off to my grandma's and grandad's age 5 with my three year old sister.
no real explantation as to where mums gone or what's happening but hey I love gran and grandad so it's a bit of an adventure. I have no clue about timelines but it seems a long time before mum is allowed to visit in the front room of gran's house. I would guess it's months though not weeks.
Eventually mum basically kidnaps us back and tells dad to fuck off, she's beat up by him but they go to court, mum is awarded custody and everything settles down to weekend visits.
During these visits, I but not my sister am regularly taken upstairs alone to basically be told what a slag mum is (she has moved in with a new man, who she stays with for 15 years so hardly a string of boyfriends).
I am told what a bad man the boyfriend is and yet expected to live with him.
So of course I became the child from hell, lying, stealing, playing up at school and mums reaction to this is to belt us with a leather belt, sister cops for this at times too.
At age 9 I have a pretty major operation, am in intensive care whilst mum and new boyfriend have a new baby.
The long and the short of what happens next is that when I come out of hospital, around 4 months later I steal something for attention again and am battered with a leather belt and run away from home. My uncle finds me (dads brother) and takes me to dads.
We all go back to court and dad is awarded custody of me because mum doesn't contest that, but not my sister so she goes back to mums.
I then don't see my mum for around 6 years, the odd letter, phone call but of course it's all very strained.
So you'd think all was going to improve but no, despite now getting what it is I thought I wanted ie to live with my dad and see my gran a lot I am still desperately unhappy but have no idea why and overdose on new years eve.
Dad's girlfriend tells him she cannot cope with me, they don't live together btw and so he beats the crap out of me in the car, we sit outside A&E where he tells me if he takes me in there he will get into trouble do I want to go in ? Looking back I've taken 20 paracetamol and so far all he knows or I do I am going to die.
After that night things just plod on, there's the odd incident where he hits me but I just get on with school etc.
I finally break free from the parenting thing by moving a long way away and come back with my daughter 2 years later.
Before I have my daughter I go for counselling because I am determined I will not be violent or shouty and basically be like either of my parents, the counsellor suggests I write to my mother before going back to home town and basically tell her I plan to parent differently, how she made me feel etc. I did this, 10 years later she still has the letter.
So I get my own place and meet my now husband, we have more children.
Mum is determined that she will be involved with the kids and we have at arms length relationship, still plenty of ups and downs and rows though.
However if I try to call her to account and say she lets me down over childcare, instead of just saying sorry about that, I get called a liar, she never made the arrangements even though my husband and brother heard her and told I am mad and I need counseling I do.

My children especially the older one knows that my mum hit me, I don't see any reason to hide the fact and if I am honest when they play up and I shout I do say think yourself lucky you haven't got a mother like mine who used to belt me.
So they are due to spend a week with her in May, the first time in 6 years my youngest will have spent anytime overnight not at home, DC2 has stayed as a very small baby, 5 weeks and my mother forgot to feed her a bottle in the 8 hours she was there because DC2 slept all day.
DC1 does have a loose relationship with her but I can just imagine DC calling my mum to account and me being made out to be mad/liar.

If you've read this far I am grateful, I just do not know what to do going forward, she doesn't accept that anything she did/played a part in is/was wrong and equally I don't want to spend my life feeling bitter, she's certainly not a happy settled person even now in her 50's.
I've not spoken to my dad in 8 years and it's no great loss at all but I guess there's this sense of mum being all I have and the DC's should have grandparents shouldn't they ?

Sorry, have just come on to have a rant. Because DH is one of the people who have been horribly judgmental of me. But he has been judging me against how a person who has not had an abusive childhood would behave and so of course to him I fall short or don't act like a normal person would in certain situations. Well of course I don't act like a 'normal' person would because I didn't have a 'normal' bloody childhood. Far from it, I had an utterly screwed up, shitty, dysfunctional childhood. And I think, given the circumstances I have done pretty bloody well. And I expect my DH to think so too.

FGS he knows what my childhood was like (not in any detail but the general gist) and yet he still complains about me not giving him hugs or being warm and affectionate towards him. I am really angry about the fact that he, as my husband, has clearly not given a moment's thought as to the possible reasons why I might not find it easy to give hugs etc. Has it not crossed his (pea sized) brain that I did not grow up giving/receiving hugs and cuddles, far from it, I grew up being told I was hated and told to get out of the house. No wonder I find it awkward to show affection. I wouldn't expect a complete stranger to understand me but surely it is not unreasonable to expect my husband to make the connection between my shitty childhood and my behaviour today?

Am I being unreasonable? I would really like to know before I speak to DH about this. I am fed up of him criticising me and telling me I have 'something missing in my make up' which he thinks is the reason for eg the way I communicate with him which he thinks I do in an 'unfeminine' way. No, there is not something missing in my make up, you ignorant twat, but there was something huge missing in my childhood, a set of parents who loved me and cared about me.

I am so angry that I have put up with DH criticising and judging me in this way for so long. He is currently reading a book I wanted him to read, aimed at partners of adult survivors of childhood abuse. I hope when it dawns on him whilst/after reading the book that my behaviour is normal for an adult abused as a child, that he will have the decency to apologise for judging me and criticising me out of sheer ignorance. But somehow I doubt it.

Hope you're having a great weekend, Exotic - or have had, by the time you read this

I'm being triggered by the NPD thread. Slowly, slowly, it's sinking in that almost all the major players in my life are mad; living in their own imaginary worlds, where I have only been a one-dimensional accessory for their fantasy. Not a person at all.

There have been sane, lovely people in my life too. I'm filled with sadness that I didn't really know how to relate to them. My entire life has been ... a lie. Whatever I've done for me - my travelling; my creative work; my business successes; my fitness (all gone now!) - was done as a sort of sideline to my full-time job as a puppet.

I know what I need to do. But I can't turn away from this now. I have 55 years of failing my self (to be myself) to make up for, and first I must start by facing the truth. Looking only on the bright side is what I've done for all "those" people, throughout my youth and best years. I have to feel the truth now. I've known it for around 3 years. Facing up to what I know is painful and I really couldn't be doing it without that thread. One tiny bit at a time, I'm waking up.

I really appreciated your asking. I'm grateful for any shred of care atm: as long as it comes without a price!
I feel very ... alone. I think I will be able to trust myself to trust other people, some time ahead of here. Right now, though, I'm still finding out just how much of my trust has been abused. And wondering how I can learn to dance without anyone pulling my strings - will I fall over? Arrghh!

Hi Grace. I'm having an ok weekend, nothing amazing.

I understand how you are feeling. When you realise your whole life you have been living a lie, not being yourself at all, but like you said, a puppet or accessory to other people who are using you for their own ends. Me too. I don't know when I realised that myself, but it is a very sad thing.

But, at least once you realise this, the future has to be different and even though you, nor I, can ever recover all the years we have lost, we can at least live the coming years differently. I too feel I have lost the best years of my life and I feel very sad thinking about this, and very angry and resentful of my parents who stole my life away from me.

Feeling angry is good. It gives you the power and energy to make important changes. Do you feel angry at your parents?

Wow, thanks for the quick reply, Exotic - especially since I'd missed your last post

I've been feeling angry at my parents for ages - only at Mum for the past 3 years or so, but that's long enough!! I'm luckier than some, as I did have opportunities to talk to them about it. Funnily enough, it was easier with Dad. He didn't try to justify himself. Mum did that - still does, and tries to explain herself (possibly to herself, actually, but she's never going to resolve that.)

My feelings about them both are complicated. I know them so well, and do have a lot of genuine sympathy for them. Dad was seriously disturbed. And he's dead. I'm furious at the way Mum tricked me into coming to live with her - it's one of those things that nobody believes could have happened, and she claims didn't

I'm away from her now, thanks to the mental health team, but still only 5 miles away - and in a tiny town, where I know no-one and can't find work. She set me back, though I do recognise that I would have had to go through this anyway. Just that I'd have preferred to be doing it in London, where 'my' life is ... or was, last time I saw it!

Thing is, they trained me to be a good puppet and I then went on to dance for other string-pullers. Natural enough but, since there's never been a time when I wasn't being controlled, I feel I've let myself down badly - and I'm none too sure I know how to live without it, iyswim?

I just went out for a (very wet) walk to think about this. There are certain moments that have always stuck in my brain - nothing special, usually, but clearly important. They were times when I deliberately chose to just "be" myself. Isn't that sad - 20 stolen minutes on Wandsworth Common; a few minutes in the years I spent travelling; a couple of early dawns? It probably totals around 55 hours out of 55 years. You know where I've always felt happiest? In an airport. I love going away; I love fresh starts. I love instability because it's all I know. I want to change.

But, before I change, I have to let myself really grasp what's happened. I still gloss over much of it. Not the childhood stuff: I've barely any memories, and now accept it will probably stay like that. I know enough, thanks to my brothers & sisters. When I think about my marriages, though, and other significant relationships, I still lean towards telling it (to myself) the way other people saw it - I was unstable, they didn't mean it, it wasn't like that, yadda yadda. Incidentally, this is why I'm trying to make friends with Fucky Nell. She knows the truth, all of it. And she nags because she's very scared.

I hope you'll see why I can't answer your post above, Exotic, although I really want to. It is unfair of your DH, not least because nobody every got affection by demanding it! I'm not in a good place to make furher comment, though. I hope reading the book will help him to symapthise with you the way you need.

Much love and chocoate bunnies

Btw, Mum just phoned! "Can I come over?" she asked - hey, she's asking now; that's a big step forward! "No," I said. "I'll see you in about half an hour," she replied. Sigh!!!

So now I feel guilty - she came over with a gift of groceries and cleared off again. I was really nice to her: rewarding good behaviour, or cupboard love? It was sweet of her anyway.

Grace, you don't have to live where you are now. You could move back to London if that's where you'd rather live. You are not responsible for your mother.

I know what you mean about snatched time when you were yourself. Mine probably adds up much the same as yours, 40 hours in 40 years.

I'm actually surprised at myself this holiday weekend. Normally during holidays I have some sort of mental breakdown . I worked out that it was due to suddenly being alone with the DC's all day with no adult company unless I arranged to meet up with another mum which I find very hard and lack the confidence to arrange. And partly due to me convincing myself that every other mum has gone to see her parents or her parents have come to hers and they are all having a lovely family time, chatting, kids playing, eating meals together etc etc. And the thought that I had no family to go to used to virtually destroy me.

Perhaps because DH is around right now I don't feel as bad as I usually do. But I think, and hope also, that I have finally realised that even when others appear to have a nice family, things are not always what they seem. There are plenty of people who have a family to go to, who treat them very badly. I think I was looking at other people's lives through rose tinted spectacles and now I am seeing things a bit more realistically.

Going back to being youself. I was thinking about who I really am. And I feel that I don't actually like who I am when I am around other people. I know I am not being my true self. But I am so used to putting on an act around other people that I don't know anymore who I really am. I act all confident when actually I think I am quite a shy and quiet person. But I don't know how to be a shy and quiet person when around others.

You might not be! I remember one time, at work, when I said "I'm very quiet really" ... and everybody stared at me, before falling around laughing. I thought I was quiet and shy because I was always scared, always worrying about what other people think - and had been made to speak so quietly, my first sales trainer sent me to a voice coach!

I finally figured out the loud, rumbuctious me, with the deafening laugh and the terrible jokes, is the real me. The teenager with the whispery voice, who hid behind her hair, was a fake invented by my father.

Which is not to say you're the same, Exotic. But I bet you are a lot of things you don't yet know about!

I'm quite a fan of experimenting with different personas - sometimes, some other aspect of 'being' fits just right. And I keep it. Tricky to do that with a DH around, I know, but still worth a few small ventures just to see?

Thinking about this, I realised I haven't done it for too long (unless you count "depressed & hopeless" persona.) So I'm experimenting with a Busy Bee-type one, in hopes of clearing up the crap around my house!! Not exactly feeling like a great fit, tbh. But I'd better crack on, whilst I'm trying ... I have a bottle of Isla Negra merlot to look forward to, when I get really pissed off with cleaning

Hi Mamatomany

My mother also does not admit what she did but I am finding, with help, that its not important. It is more important that I acknowledge what she did to me and how it made me feel rather than trying to get her to admit to it. That won't actually help me get over the results of her years of abuse.

My parents are not terrible grandparents so within my boundaries this relationship continues. Now I am working with my counsellor to try and deal with seeing them as I am still very angry around them and reacting as an adult child.

Not sure if this helps at all

Had a bit of a step backwards. Read Claire Millars book and it triggered all sorts of feelings. Husband listened to it all last night and then today he was back to his normal self. I care for you but I don't want to be married to you but I am staying in the house to help you. I am afriad that it all got a bit much and we went through the whole I want him to try in our marriage and he wont try until he sees what I am like after I have worked through all my parent issues.

It is really getting me down. Part of me wants to ask him to leave as he is making this whole process harder. But I scared to do this as I want to snatch however small an oppertunity to make this marriage work. Not just for me but for the boys too.

On the one hand I am angry with him for being so blinkered especially when his gambling contributed to what I now see is my breakdown. It should be me bailing on the marriage after 13 years of gambling but he cant see that. I know I was horrible and sapped his love but my counsellor is helping me see that my drip drip drip approach was because I was holding so many feelings inside myself about him and my mother.

This whole thing is not helped by my mum who is being so on my side but mainly, I know, because she has never been happy with H because he stands up to her!

Aargh, thank god there will be plenty of chocolate tomorrow

Wow, Sal, when you get going you really get going!! Well done you

Perhaps you and I feel similarly about the parents. Once I'd left home (erm, I was thrown out the day I finished my A-levels) they had no further power over me. They could - and did - still undermine me but, as I was no longer "under their roof", I felt able to state my position with them. Which I did, sometimes with surprising success.

Getting me back to live with her was a power play on my Mum's part ... and it worked; once she'd got me there, I was trapped in a life she defined. I honestly believe she meant it as recompense - she said so herself - for having failed to protect me as a child. Clearly, that was all about her; the move did me no favours whatsoever. But it made her feel better

I do, like you, see her as a separate individual from me (Dad too, before he died.) I think I've offended some other Stately Homers in the past, by talking this way but, obviously, it's been an overriding goal since I was 18. Our relationship still affects me; so do the lessons I learned in childhood. But I'm (re-)detaching from her successfully.

My SILs have been extremely cautious in how they permit my mother's grandparenting. She adores children - is childike herself - and feels attached to them in varying ways. I've picked her up a few times on her idealisation/demonisation of the kids, but to little avail. Basically, she means well (in her own mind) but is hopelessly irresponsible - and can be overbearing, with her 1950s child psychology. The kids, however, know she loves them and to that extent she's a beneficial force; she's just not allowed to have much influence over those lives!

I've forgotten what ages your DCs are. I feel very sure that, with your rapidly-increasing awareness, you'll successfully manage the relationships between your kids and your mum.

Hope the holiday weekend's turning out Ok for you, Sal

Ohh, you posted again while I was writing my essay

Sal, I suspect one of the hardest lessons for you is the one everybody finds hard ... There's no-one there for you except you. Your H has his own issues: correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression he took his ADs, did a bit of work and decided that was enough?? If so, then he's likely still preferring to dump his issues on you rather than give too much painful consideration to the whys and wherefores. Don't let this worry you. Screwed-up people (me, that is, I wouldn't call you screwed-up! Sad, though, yes) mostly gravitate to screwed-up relationships with screwed-up people. Naturally enough.

Life is a process; all therapy does is make us more aware of that process. Inevitably, individual paths diverge - they may well come back together in the future, or maybe they'll just go off in different directions. I've just read that back and it looks harsh. Yikes!! I'm not deleting it, though, for a decent reason I think. When XH#2 and I were splitting up - which took 3 years, what with all his controlling & money stuff - I said the same to him: about my process & his process. He was so impressed, he sent me a thankyou note. That didn't stop him stitching me up, but that's my story not yours. I just feel that, as long as the two of you can work "together but separately" through your stuff, you're in a potentially healthy situation for now.

The above may not have made sense. I swapped cleaning for Merlot, before eating properly

Hi all.

I'm a relative newbie here but still name-changed, how paranoid is that?

I am totally and royally screwed up as a person. I don't even know where to start. I'm afraid of starting because I'm scared of opening up doors that have remained shut for a long time if that makes any sense? I'm in my forties but feel perpetually trapped by the past but I have never really confronted anything that (I think) made me the way I am. I've been told that I'm a cold person and not emotionally giving. I'm ashamed and embarrassed to admit I've no friends, not one and I struggle to form relationships with anyone. I've got 3 kids, one of 22 who, somehow, has turned into a loving person with loads of friends and a good life. My kids are the only ones I feel comfortable with, who I can love and be affectionate with.

I have seen my mother once since I was taken away from her when I was 7 due to my stepfather's abuse (not sexual). It was not a good meeting. She refused to give him up (to keep me at aged 7) so I went to live with my Dad and Stepmother, where the abuse continued and escalated (again not sexual). I have only spoken to my family a few times in 20 years, the last time 12 years ago.

Oddly enough I don't feel lonely. I've been alone all my life so it's something I feel used to, but I feel outside of the world looking in if that makes any sense, probably not. I'm going to have a good read of this thread and maybe post in more detail later if anyone is interested in maybe listening?

Thanks Grace, as always you speak total sense, even with Merlot!

I totally agree with what you said about your relationship with your mother and to be honest for me apart from moving to the other side of the world it is the only way to stay sane(ish). My boys are 8 and 6 and seem to have their grandma sussed- especially the 8 year old. Occassionally she over steps the mark- she broke her wrist because she was trying to stop my 6 year old (then about 2) from falling not because she slipped on ice!- but I usually talk these things out with the boys and they understand it just grandma and she does love them.

You are exactly right about my H, that is exactly what he did. Even to the point of stopping his AD's cause he was fixed and then having another breakdown! He has always had difficulties moving forward from his past- eactly what I told him this morning. I need to accept it may be over but work on a friendship for the sake of the kids- sounds good in principle but may need to work on making myself accept this!

Hop you have a good weekend with an Easter egg to go with the Merlot!

Hi QueensHandbag

Always happy to listen. Find its a great help even just to write things down here.

Take Care

Hi Exotic

What book did you give to your husband to read? Looking for something for mine!

Cheers

Dont have much time but just wanted to say a quick hello.

exotic you may be away now so not sure if you will get this but wrt the money I dont think you should feel guilty. After all your parents are adults and they have made the decision to give you the money. They have made the decision without being mislead by you. You have been open and honest by saying that if you 'did' take the money it would not change things and you would still not have any contact.
The only consideration I guess is wether they believe that after taking the money you may perhaps change your mind. I know that you wont of course but your parents may think differently. That said they are still entering into this with their eyes wide open. They have all the facts and if they believe, despite you telling them otherwise that this may influence you, then that is their decision. Like I said you cant be responsible for their decisions.
Your sisters have no right to judge you over this. You have shown youself to be principled and said openly it will not change things.I think you worry about this because you are still in the process of detatching emotionally from them. I still worry about mid dbs opinion/reactions to things, I know I shouldn't but its a hard habbit to break. Im convinced that as a child I felt that if I got Dbs approval it would make me feel better because he was the golden child. I worry if I give up work I will never be able to compete with him and SIL finacially. Why do I care about this? It is so ridiculous but I feel it strongly nonetheless.
Anyway just my thoughts. And subject close to my heart because my parents have often used money (especially my father) as leverage so I understand the emotion you must be feeling.
As grace said dont tie up money with emotion
'.. or dont cry for money because it never cries for you.' Think about your childrens future.

grace sorry you have been feeling low. I really reltated to your posts regarding feeling like a puppet.
Its an interesting concept this and also what you were saying about the real person underneath. About the act not necessarily being an act.
I was intrigued by what you said about the whispery voice. This is me too! Why or how did we end up so afraid to speak out? I always thought this was my mothers damage. The scornful looks as she didnt want anyone to steal her thunder.
I also gravitated toward sales. Well we are the best chameleons are we not, us stately homers! Fine tuned to others needs and eager to please so as to win approval and be liked.
Just a question but why would you not go back to where your life is/was? Are there other things stopping you now?

I have bought myself a car...which means I am a step further toward leaving (I dont need my own car unless I leave and give up company car). And now I am really petrified.
I feel as though I replicated the life I had at home with my parents, in the workplace.
Desperately unhappy and in need of more substance but hooked into the material pull of money, car etc. I guess I see these things as approval and confuse them with love, because material things were used as compensation.
My dad let me drive around in my own nice new car (my sis still does at 31) but it was never 'my' car, it was his and should I leave home/move away or be disobedient this privelege would be taken away. It made me beholden to him, a guilded cage.
I was never given money of my own (that would mean free choice after all) but things that I wanted could be bought for me, but then removed again if need be.
I really related to what exotic said about not caring because it didnt matter wether you did well or not. I think I felt that nothing would ever be 'good enough' for them. So I dont see why its worth the bother trying.
If I was successful it was 'because' of them and there was always more I could have done. Any feeling of self esteem derived from success were so short lived it was snatched from me sometimes merely moments later.
Its exactly the same in a sales environment. You can be rolling along doing well but you are only ever as good as your last sale. Its so transient.
Before I went on mat leave I was top sales person nationally (a fluke btw ) but when I returned it was all forgotten and the main focus was that being gone for a year meant anything that had happened before didnt count.

Anyway have to go but back later.

Hello, fellow visitors. I am reading this thread & the other one, and feeling moved
All the things I haven't done are biting me right now - you know, they do! - so can't spend time replying just now. Love you

'they trained me to be a good puppet and I then went on to dance for other string pullers' - I can relate strongly to this Grace. However slowly but surely I feel I am starting to dance to my own tune rather than others all the time. I do feel my adoptive parents' strings have been severed and I no longer seek their approval or love (or try to be what they want me to be). But I realsie that I too have neen dancing for other string pullers or certainly hiding my true self and opinions in order to be liked, loved and accepted by everybody.

When I met my ILs for example I was a very vulnerable 19 year old girl and I went from trying to please one set of parent figures to trying to please another. Generally I have been myself with them and they love and accept me for who I am, but at times I have tried to please and lost myself a bit. They didn't/don't realise this as until recently they had no idea about my childhood and what I went through. However I am being less of a pleaser and more myself. I still struggle with this at times and work myself up that they don't like me as much or that they might reject me. I know deep down though that this is not true, they are generally decent people.

For example my MIL has not been able to provide the level of support I need. This is partly due to circumstances outwith her control, but also because she leads such a busy lifestyle and seems incapable of prioritising us at times. She does try and the support she does provide has been invaluable but I need more and for once I am not ashamed to admit it.

So I have taken control and made moves to help myself and my family. I have put my ds down for more pre school hours in August and I am looking at childminders and babysitters so that I can get breaks and my dh and I can get out a bit more. I do not want a repeat from a couple of weeks ago when I ended up with no support in a really bad week and I became desperate - ended up feeling suicidal, was horrible to my ds and a trip to the psychiatrist.

I am pretty sure I get horrendous PMT so I am off to my GP tomorrow to get some help with that. Little steps that hopefully will lead to a happier life.

I am allowing emotions from childhood to come when they are ready and validating them myself. If I need to remember more, then I am sure the memories will come in their own good time. The pointlessness and despair I felt a couple of weeks ago, all of a sudden, I am sure was another layer of pain coming away. I actually feel better for it now but the psychiatric approach worried me. The doctor I saw was ready to dismiss the childhood issues and start anti depressants. Now I am a big believer in medication and I took them after my ds when I felt permanently low and I needed help to get my mood of the ground before I could even contemplate dealing with childhood traumas.

Now however it feels different. I want to feel the pain from my childhood and each time I come out the other side a little stronger and clearer. What was going on was a combination of post traumatic stess as memories and images flashed into my head and I had a sense that the abuse was worse than I had previously thought, horrific PMT and just a bad week that all mums have from time to time (bad weather, sick kids and no support). I need someone who can help with my ds when this happens (my dd is only a baby still and sleeps a lot so I can cope with her) as he is older now and is affected by my breakdowns and my anger (I am ashamed to admit I lashed out at him physically). I do love him unconditionally and see him as an individual so I hope he knows this and understands my apologies and explanations. We are generally a very loving and happy family but when I hit these tough patches it can affect everyone.

Sorry for my ramble and lack of specific replies. I would like to leave you all with a quote which I thought summed up narcissism perfectly

'she looks at herself instead of looking at you, and so doesn't know you. During the two or three little outbursts of passion she has allowed herself in your favour, she has, by a great effort of imagination, seen in you the hero of her dreams, and not yourself as you really are' (stendhal le rouge et la noir)

TheQueensHandbag 'Oddly enough I don't feel lonely. I've been alone all my life so it's something I feel used to, but I feel outside of the world looking in'

I know exactly what you mean, but I'm feeling like that less and less. For me, the change is coming from understanding and accepting that my parents' abuse and neglect was the behaviours they chose, not because I am a bad person. You will see Susan Forward's book 'Toxic Parents' recommended here and it is extremely good. She talks about people who were badly abused as feeling dirty, damaged and different. My jaw dropped when I read that because that is exactly how I had always felt about myself. It was a revelation that other people felt that way.

I don't think it's worth bothering - if your parents were that bad just get the hell away and stay away. there is no point whatsoever in dragging it out.

I loved your Stendhal quote, Rose! My silly Mum often can't tell the difference between herself, my sister and me. Especially, of course, when it comes to aspects of herself she doesn't much like: "Now we're old; we're too fat; I've hidden the cake because you'll eat it all ... "

There was a long period, last year, when both Mum (who's larger than me) and my sister (about the same size as me) were both telling me I was fatter than them, even to the extent of giving me clothes that were too large for them. It's fortunate I've already had & recovered from anorexia - or, between them, they could have triggered it!

oh grace Thats horrible.
I am a different build to my mum, similar to my fathers side of the family, but she has continually sent me particular messages about my weight. Like putting me on a diet when I was 10 (she said my nan overefed me while she looked after me). She also began referring to me as fatty when I was pg with dd
I think she sees me and my dad as the same person.

Thank you, Smithfield

I didn't really experience it as horrible - more mind-bending, as I was only just coming to terms with the levels of 'toxicity' in my family; it felt very odd to have it demonstrated, there, it front of me.

My mum also put me on a diet at 10! She came into the bathroom, stared at my tummy and went "My god, [Grace], you're fat!" After that, it was all "No potatoes for Grace, she's fat" and "No custard for you, Piggy." She still doesn't see how we all developed eating disorders

I recently told a funny story about a sports day, in which I referred to myself as "this chubby little kid". My brother interrupted - "You weren't chubby, you know, you were just a normal little girl." Apparently he remembers the event I was talking about. I don't think he knows what cataclysmic news that was! I'm truly grateful to him. More than everything else, that showed me what a fabrication my childhood (and my sense of self) had been.

I'm sorry you were put down like this, too, Smithfield. Have you managed to completely get over it? Or do you still worry about your body?