'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

A similar thing happened whe my ds was first born.

My health visitor asked if I was "enjoying him". WOW what a concept!

That was light bulb moment that thankfully happened when he was very tiny.

MH Im glad you are looking for another counsellor. Its better that you realised so soon that this therapist isnt for you. Most people habe a few therapists before finding the right one.
I picked up on something you said about your parents having empathy for others. Dont be fooled by this as this is classic narcisstic behaviour and really screws with your own psyche. They have the ability to look perfectly normal, empathic, good to the outside world. It is important for them after all to get approval.

diving Edna is very active currently. I think I mentioned a while back how unhappy I have been for many years in my current 'job'. I am in a good position right now (financially speaking) to take some time out. Be at home more with dd before she goes to school, help DH out who is struggling to manage with his own business commitments. And I would like to try my hand at 'something else'.
Edna thinks I am being frivolous. Selfish. She tells me I have the perfect job to have with children and that I 'should' be able to just get on with it. She also thinks Im kidding myself about being at home more, that Im not cut out for it. That I will never be happy whatever I do...in any work environment because the problem IS ME. (god...told you she was eeevil) But maybe she is right? After all I am a teen/child in a womans body most of the time. With low self esteem to boot.
She also says that I will miss having my 'own' money because I am a spendthrift and unable to reign in my spendthrifty ways.
I argue with her back and say but I can always go back to this job eventually albeit somewhere else.
I left once before got half way through a law degree but Edna badgered the crap out of me until I relented and went back with my tail between my legs. She won.
I ask her but dont I 'deserve' to be true to my own feelings Edna? What about what I need on a personal level.
Oh god now this is scaring me because it's sounding more and more like scared child vs parent sad] But Its as though I desperately need Ednas approval . Despite aslso wanting to throw her into a cow pat.
But I really really want to give up work. Or do I want to run away like Edna thinks I do? Ive never shown any true potential with anything which irritates me, do I need to change course in order to do that?
I always seem to end up in these toxic work environments and feel like a square peg to boot.
Bugger, Im more than ever now. Im going to try and write this down on paper first and then come back.

exotic/saddest I think most women (if they are honest) do feel this way about their first born. I know I do with ds. I think its such a shock having a child and no-one ever tells you what its really like. They cant because it's indescribable. My friend had a good go at it though. She said she took one look at the baby and one look at her husband reverse parking the car (they were still at the hospital) and thought 'shit my life is actually over.'
Add to that all the stuff about our own missing connections with our own mums surfacing and viola. Recipe for disaster really.
No-one can be a perfect parent but insight and willingness to accept we can do things differently is enough.

Oh and I think I project edna on to DH too.

Ok got to go back later.

Just finished my second session of counselling and feeling crap! Did it get to anyone else like this. Feeling that all I am doing is moaning and maybe its not parents and husband but me that is the problem

I need to find a name for my voice too. I didn't even realise I had one until quite recently.

Mine pushes me to be the perfect parent, to always put DS first, to do everything I can to do everything right. Of course never having had a good parenting role model, it and I are never sure what is really the right thing, and I was very hard on myself at times. I also projected that voice onto H - and every little criticism of the way I did things made that voice go crazy doubting what I was doing.

I guess my voice was my anti-mother, the idea of what I should be to NOT be like her with DS.

I've got counselling tomorrow too, and I really liked the woman last week so I'm quite looking forward to it even though I was very emotional last time.

Sal - I hope it gets better for you. My counsellor asked me last time what I wanted to achieve from the sessions. Has yours asked you? Perhaps you're feeling a bit aimless and discussing what you want to do might help?

'Fraid so, Sal. Travelling through the miserable stuff makes you miserable! Did you do a lot of "putting up with it" and "looking on the bright side" when you were younger? When you've become an expert in denial (through necessity, in childhood), it feels very much as though you're not allowed to admit something was wrong. Something was, though, wasn't it? Stick at it - it's a process: your feelings will change as you work through them.

(Having said that, do be wary if your counsellor seems to be implying you were responsible for everything that happened to you.)

Smithfield, I suspect it's great that you're able to have it out with Edna. She may have valid points but I reckon you'll be able to answer the genuine concerns and dismiss the carping! FWIW, I agree it's important to explore your ideas & ambitions. We're in the 21st century now; a job for a life just isn't the norm any more. (Does Edna know what year it is??)

Did anybody see Law & Order on ITV just now?

Message withdrawn

Diving, I want YOU to be MY therapist!!!!!!!!!

diving You are truly amazing.
I cant belive how spot on you are. The biggest thing I felt reading that is just how bloody negative edna is.
She depresses me. Literally. Always has.
And you are so right re the approval. Did you/do you still have this within yourself, since going nc? You seem so strong now. I keep thinking what else can I do to stop seeking this approval that aint ever coming.
Now where are the nearest cow pats?
You should think about charging my dear, that was pure gold. Thanks.x

grace yes she is practically archaic.

sal your counsellor/therapist is there to listen while you talk. Thats her job. You need to have that space to talk and talk and wail (if need be) about YOU. It probably feels luxurious because you have not had it before so it feels kind of wrong. Hang in there.

Message withdrawn

diving I think some of it is about the 'fear' of going against the tribe. Its not what physically happened to us when we did this... not the ridicule / silent treatment/slap around the chops. It's the fear of the feelings involved. I hook into the anxiety and fear, and I hate these feelings so intensely, want to run away from them.
Naff I know but you really have to take a deep breath and 'feel the fear' but do it anyway. Yes Im quoting from a book title but it feels so apt for what you have described.
I have to say as well that there is a niggle in me too of what if I am sabotaging my own success. I could knuckle down myself get promoted etc. Maybe you've hit on something else going on with me too. I wonder if 'hating' the industry I'm in is an excuse 'not' to excel.

Message withdrawn

Thanks everyone. Feeling better this morning. It almost feels like when the counsellor is validating my feelings I should be standing up for the people responsible for them. I guess this speaking out for myself is going to take some practice!

"Smithfield" I really relate to what you are saying about your job. I too went ito a high powered job because it was what I was expected to do and all the while I feel guilty because what I really want to do is spend more time with my children. But parents and H are saying how can you leave such a high status job, you cant afford to leave it....My cousellor asked a good question I am still trying to answer "do you like your job?"

Once again, fellow Stately Home visitors, thank you for all those fantastic posts, which resonate with me and help me to re-focus on recovery.

My very first sales trainer, Steve, used to say: "Expose yourself to the danger of success." Every time he said it, about half the team looked at him as if he were speaking Martian; the other half smiled bravely, nodded and got back to the coal face ... Lots of Stately Homers in sales; that ability to roll with the punches can be an asset! With Steve's words in mind, I'm going to find a copy of the old Nike "Just Do It" ads and stick it on my wall

I don't know if you'd noticed, but I'm trying to make friends with Fucky Nell. This relates back to some therapy work I did ages ago - and must have been to soon for me - so it's not by way of an advice to anyone else. My feeling is that this might be a better time for me & Nell, so I'm giving it a fresh shot. Naming her has made an incredible amount of difference: thank you for that!! (I'm still up for the cow pats, though. She is nothing if not resilient.)

Apropos of nothing: I always hated stately home visits. I still recoil when anybody suggests getting National Trust membership! I have no intention of 'dealing' with this, it's unimportant to me. But the thread title tickles me more & more, the longer I'm here

Hi all. Feeling very low today. Hate my life, it's all crap etc. I know it's pmt, but it's very real, the feelings are real.

I also feel very resentful and jealous of DH. About how his life has not been blown apart since having DC's like mine was. He's still got his job, in which he's doing very well, his friends, his family (parents and brother). His life is intact. Mine has completely fallen apart and has been like this for what seems like forever. And he seems to have no clue about this. I find him extremely tactless and insensetive at times, when talking about his work, his friends, his family; he seems clueless about how I feel, and yet he's the person I live with. Makes me feel like we're strangers, and that I am totally alone.

I have no family, hardly any friends, no job and very little prospect of finding one given the economic conditions and the fact I have been out of the workforce for 7 years, my health and looks have been shot to pieces. And all because of the 'unexploded bomb' my parents kindly left inside me, which was triggered and has been exploding in bursts ever since I had DD.

I am so tired of it all. Of working on myself. It is so tiring and exhausting and draining and most of never ending. Every single time, as soon as I get to a good place, a nice, pleasant, happy place, a place that I would like to stay, something forces me to walk past it and onto somewhere else, full of grief and pain and sadness.

Am sorry this is all so negative. I can't find anything to feel positive about right now. We're supposed to be going on holiday next week, I was excited about it but as usual, DH has told me he'd rather not go and is only going because I want to and I should be grateful for that. I don't feel grateful, just sad that I am married to the wrong man and feel too scared to end it. I really feel like I need some space from him but there is no way that is possible without us actually splitting up. I think he is making me ill, I am sure he is toxic like his mother but he is in complete and utter denial about his own issues.

Oh dear, Exotic

I want to rush over to wherever-you-are, gather you in my slightly flabby arms and fluster you & the kids with tea, cake and a lovely lovely holiday!

Mind you, with my domestic & organisational skills these days, your kids will have grown up and left home by the time I've made a cake & got to you ...

I know, I know, I know. I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. I'm very sad you have an usupportive partner - charming comment about the holiday!! It's a pig sometimes.

DO enjoy your holiday (any chance you could grant DH his wish & go without him??). Do dump all this on your counsellor. Do have that extra glass of wine and piece of chocolate!
Hugs xx

Hi Exotic

I would echo Grace. Can you not say well if you dont want to go Ill take the kids on my own. It would give you some space and then investigate kids clubs, creche's whatever and get a bit of space to yourself. You deserve it!

If he has to come then dump and I do mean dump the kids with him, tell him they want some daddy time and you go and pamper yourself.

Its your holiday, you need it make the most of it. Have a glass of wine for me too!

Hi all,

I've been reading and learning even when I haven't been posting, but my counsellor today though perhaps, as I'm coping really well day-to-day with the whole marriage breakdown and being pregnant thing, I should not try to delve too far into my past / family history while hormones are in play and I'm so vulnerable. That feels right at the moment so I'm going to - just for a while - take a step back from this thread and focus on coping with the moment, and the immediate challenges that I'm facing.

But I WILL be back! I've faced up to the consequences of my upbringing and I am not going to let them rule the rest of my life - I'm just going to deal with them when I am in a more stable place!

Thanks for all your wonderful insights, and I hope you're still around and continuing on your positive journeys when I get back.

exotic Sorry you are feeling so down. It was a very insensitive thing for your DH to say I agree. Do you think perhaps he said it without thinking? Has he a lot on at work currently? If he is stressed about taking time out from work he may have meant it in that way rather than the way it came accross.

Good Luck Chairmum

Diving, I wanted to say re your post before that this applies so appropriately to what has happened recently with my diet/excercise.
Old neural pathway (which edna keeps wanting me to shuffle down) says dont bother going to the gym/for run, just dial a pizza and continue to stuff your face, along with your feelings. I am used to saying to myself 'I cant be bothered'.
After all this 'is' my usual/habitual behaviour and anyway Im supposed to be the 'fatty' of the family (hope no-one finds that offensive in any way am only using such language to make a point). That is the 'old' script. Now I literally get startled when I see myself in the mirror. I am my slim self, the one that always existed beneath I guess. Whats more I like myself this way. I look glowing and healthy.
Im not starving myself (been there done that),I am eating sensibly and enjoying the endorphin rush after a long run.
But yes I too slip back at times. Like you say I have to focus on how good it feels to have achieved what I have.
Im finding the only way I can get past the old groove that catches every time Im supposed to be going for a workout is to literally flick off a switch in my brain. In fact actually that 'is' what I do. I literally say 'no' I enjoy it, I 'want' to go for a run'. Ednas 'almost' lost this one battle entirely. The old me couldn't be bothered but the new me can. So I guess I am re-writing my own script by doing this and beating a new neural pathway.
It helps to know it is in my control however tough it may be. Each day is a new day and time to start afresh. It would be depressing if this was all in the hands of our parents still as it once was. Emotionally at times it may feel that way but it isnt and that is worth remembering. Sticking on the fridge in fact.
---
well ladies I am feeling ultra positive today Edna is still having a go but Im getting there .
I just came on to wish you all a happy Easter!
The smithfields are heading off for an easter break and one quite different to the norm. I am breaking moulds

So will be back in a few days to see how you are all doing.xx

Hello all. Thank you so much for your kind words when I was feeling down. It was PMT as now I feel fine. Sometimes my PMT is so bad, I feel suicidal, I definately need to do something about it. Am going to see a herbalist and see if there is anything I can take to help.

I have been reading your discussion about almost sabotaging your own success, at work etc. I'm not working right now so am not sure how I would be if I was working. I did feel a while ago a great urge to go back to work and throw myself into it completely and try and succeed and do well where before I had failed ie in previous jobs where I had been given the opportunity to do really well but, due to my issues I now reaise, I 'blew' it' almost every time. Looking back I wonder whether I never bothered much at work, never tried very hard etc because somewhere deep down inside I knew that no matter how well I did, I would never get the praise and attention from my parents that I wanted and so there was no point in bothering at all. Whenever I had done well at school etc, my parents had hardly noticed, much less told me they were proud of me or shown any joy or happiness at my achievments, so I must have subconsciously thought "Why bother trying to do well, my parents will not be interested in me no matter what I do, good or bad, so why bother." In fact my father almost seemed to begrudge me any success I did achieve and seemed jealous if I got myself a good job.

Re DH and our holiday. Apparently he meant that I should be grateful that he has 'allowed' me to spend a large amount of our spare cash on holidays this year and he would not choose to spend the money all on holidays. I suppose that is fair enough. But I did not go ahead and just book things without him agreeing to it and knowing exactly how much it would cost us. So I think it's not right for him to now tell me he thinks I have spent too much on holidays this year. I admit I have spent a lot on holidays this year, more than I would normally spend. But it's a bit like the work thing, instead of thinking about getting a part time job and trying to balance work and family, I had the very strong urge to get a full on full time job and completely put family on the back burner.

I think it's something to do with finding out who I am and gaining a much stronger sense of my true identity. I am discovering different parts of myself that have lain dormant for years and it's as if they are springing to life and going from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. I know I will eventually find a balance in all areas of my life, but at the moment I seem to want to do 'extreme' things which DH understandably finds hard to comprehend.

I think my expectations of DH are too high. I want him to be very empathetic and feel things deeply like I do, but he just is not that person. He functions very much at a logical, rational and thinking level, not at an emotional level and I just need to try and accept that and learn to live with it. i get upset and disappointed and hurt when he does not behave in a way I want and think he should behave. But perhaps I have been unable/unwilling to see him for who he actually is and have been putting upon him expectations that he simply cannot meet. And I would realise this if I stopped to look at who he is but I don't think I've ever really done that. More evidence of narcissm on my part. I think it must be inevitable that I would have learnt to become a narcissist as I would have unknowingly followed my parents' example and learnt from them to not see other people and other people's feelings.

I have discovered another emotion I suppressed during childhood. Jealousy. I have always thought of myself as a person who never feels jealous of others. But that was because I was making a judgment about what sort of person feeling jealous makes you. But jealousy is a normal human emotion and I know I felt jealous as a child of all the love and attention and affection my sisters always got from our parents whilst I was ignored and left out. My parents used to by my sisters lovely dresses and outfits and dress them up and take pictures of them. I wasn't included in all this. I just had to stand aside and watch my sisters get all the attention and I had to be content to stand quietly on the sidelines and not complain or protest that I was being ignored and left out. Of course I would feel jealous in those circumstances. Jealous and resentful of my sisters. But I never showed it as a child nor even admitted to myself that I was jealous. And I think the jealousy and resentment I have been feeling towards DH about his job, his friends etc, was originally felt by me as a child. Because the jealousy and resentment I was feeling towards DH was disproportionate to what he had actually done. I am sure I must have felt a lot of jealousy as a child given the very unequal treatment me and my sisters got, but incredibly it seems to me now, I had never identified jealousy as an emotion I had suppressed for years. Like anger it is another potentially very powerful emotion, keeping it stored up inside cannot have been doing me any good at all.

After nearly a year of deliberating, I have finally decided to accept the financial offer my parents made last year. It took me a long time to decide what to do about their offer. There was a part of me that thought my parents 'owed' me for what they did and the only thing I was ever going to get from them was money so I might as well take it. But then another part of me felt like I would be betraying myself and my inner child by taking the money as it might seem as if I was letting my parents off for what they did to me and allowing myself to be bought, even though I have no intention of having any contact with them even if they gave me their life savings. I thought if they were giving money to my sisters, which they were, then I should get some too. But then I felt guilty as my sisters were in contact with them whilst I am not. But then I thought I am entitled to compensation in a way my sisters are not as they were not abused and neglected like i was and there is ample evidence for this if one knows what the evidence looks like. I thought if I took the money and used it towards the DC's education in the future it would be ok as I wouldn't be using the potentially 'toxic' money on myself and somehow contaminate myself again after working so hard to 'detox' myself.

All communication about the money is being done via my sister which feels ok to me. I wouldn't want to speak to her and she wants to meet up which I will never commit to until i feel ready. I will just come up with various excuses for not meeting up and I feel no guilt about this whatsoever, unlike before when i know I would have felt hugely guilty for putting my health and well being first. I am sure my sister will not lose any sleep about me not wanting to meet up.

I just need to sign some forms and the first tranche of funds will be transferred by my dad. I'm in no rush to do it, will do it when I feel completely ok about it. But it doesn't feel 'wrong' anymore to me to be accepting money from my dad. I have made it clear he will get nothing from me ie no contact, no changing my mind about him and my mother. Everything will remain as it is now, ie no contact. He is still willing to transfer the money in this knowledge so I feel ok about it. I am slighly worried about how my sisters will view me. I am sure they will be judgemental about me taking the money and continuing to cut off our parents. It upsets me a little, but not too much. I know they are judgmental out of complete ignorance and there is nothing I can do about that. And it's nothing new, they have been judgmental for years, so I should be used to it.

I felt very sorry for my inner child today about how she has seemingly incessantly been judged and misunderstood and blamed and told she was inadequate, defective, faulty. When in actual fact she was acting pefectly normally and as one would expect for somebody who has been abused/neglected by her parents. It is not my inner child who is defective or faulty or inadequte but those around her who are ill informed and uneducated and I am going to make sure I stand up for my inner child every time an ignorant person comes along and passes judgment on her.

Wonderful post, Exotic

I can't respond much as I'm feeling very wobbly & insecure today. There's one thing I wanted to pass on to you, though. It's one of my valuable lessons, learned too late! here it is: "Money has no morals". It hasn't - it's as unbiased, as apolitical and as unemotional as a bucket of water. Like water, it has the power to enhance life.
Take it; any feelings attached to it are illusory.