'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Rose, am so happy that you have read The Drama. I have read it probably around 20 times! Each time I re-read I get something new out of it. I find it works at a subconscious level rather than at a more conscious and obvious level like say, Toxic Parents.

I wanted to mention something I have been reading about. It's called a 'healing crisis' and I think this is what I have been experiencing over and over again. It's when you get a temporary worsening of symptoms (in my case eczema), as your body gets rid of a load of toxins,m after which you feel much much better. That's a very simplistic explanation, but I wondered if anybody else had come across this? The articles I have read mainly talk about a 'physical' healing crisis, but some also mention a mental healing crisis and I feel I am experiencing both. I can see a distinct pattern where i go through a few days of feeling absolutely awful, depressed, tired, down and miserable, and my skin seems worse. But then, it seems to pass, and I feel much much better, mentally and physically and it always coincides with me developing new and greater insight into myself and experiencing emotions that I had previously suppressed.

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Mais oui, Diving

Each of us has a reptile, a mammal, a primate and a 'conscious self' in our heads. It's a zoo up there ... and all the residents are called Brian. Except the conscious one, who is also called Brian if that's your name.

Scientific, see

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Loving Nora and Brian!!

Therapist suggested I turn "Nora" down, using an imaginary volume knob. I much prefer the idea of shouting at her

I think I'll call mine Nell. It'll be so handy when I snarl "Fucky Nell" after making yet another error of imperfection. Oh, and thanks for the reminder about the cat's worms ...

Hi Exotic T, I thought I was the only one too. I was really worried with the second boy as everyone kept telling me I looked so different to the first one so it must be a girl. I did tell my husband but I could tell it worried him so I tended to keep it to myself. Similarly when the boys were born I hated anyone saying they looked like my side of the family and its only now I am realising why. At least you have recognised what is happening

diving You are so blinking funny and scarily intelligent all at once. Deep belly chuckle. Thankyou... and you two grace.
Now what to call mine..will have a think and let you know.

Hey, diving and Grace, this is supposed to be a serious thread, don't you know?

I have had a positive experience if using EFT to address the legacy of my "mother".

I believe it has helped as I don't feel the unbridled terror of rejection and anger since I have been doing it on the issues surrounding her.

I will start again regarding the abuse I have suffered at the hands of my h, and hope to recover from that too.

It's strange, but I rarely think about her since I did the EFT.

ok I've settled on Edna (aplogies to any ednas reading). As in eeeevil edna .

exotic I think your feelings toward having dd are 'normal' under the circumstances. I had exactly the same thoughts when pg with dd. I didnt know she was a dd at that time but instinct told me she was. I was petrified. Having her has been healing (so far). As she gets older I think it could get tougher for me though. The older I got the worse my issues with my mother became.

saddest I have heard of EFT but not sure what it entails. How does it work and did you go looking for a EFt therapist or did you find a therapist first who then suggested it to you? Sorry lots of questions. Dont answer if too overwhelming.

Actually this now makes it easier to explain my current situation.
I am about to resign (I think ) from work.
So edna is on red alert. She is stalking me something rotten. Calling me all sorts. This in turn is turning me into sulky teen complete with feet stamping tantrums.

Oh, Smithfield, lol @ your stamping tantrums!

Resigning sounds like a brave & healthy move (I'm assuming it's healthy as Edna doesn't like it!?)

I'm trying to get Fucky Nell to actually do my housework, instead of just whining about the state of the place. When 'she's finished, I'll send her round to have a word with your Edna.

I can just picture them, hunched over the back gate, moaning

diving, i missed your post of 13.22 earlier. It is so clear and succint, it articulates my experience perfectly. I might print it out and keep it, when my mind gets scrambled I am sure it will help me make sense of things again.

To Wanttostartafresh. I don't know if you are still posting on this thread. I am new to MN and have just discovered Stately Homes this last week. The effect of reading this is blowing my mind. I'm still catching up, currently reading through January's posts,and did not expect to post myself until I'd read through all the posts and read Toxic Parents (winging it's way to me as I type). Maybe I never will post about my own experiences, it's just painful to think about and try to unravel. But I just had to post after reading something you wrote and I'm sorry if this is totally inappropriate as I am only just reading the january posts. I just read your post of 26 Jan 14.18 re your Dad and the expectation when you were a child that you should just forget the previous day's abuse (because he felt fine now) and his total lack of comprehension that his abuse should effect you back then or today, not to mention the ongoing lack of recognition that he did anything wrong.

In that single post you have articulated everything that is currently torturing my mind and written it down better than I ever could. I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. There was a lot of discussion on here in January about wanting people to be on your side unconditionally, to listen to what you had been through and support you against the abusers without reservations, caveats or excuses for the abusers, to believe you wholeheartedly and unreservedly even though they weren't there. In my mind, the word "advocate" keeps coming up, someone completely fighting your corner, stepping into your shoes, articulating the crimes against you,seeking justice for you. In that one post I feel like you've (unintentionally of course) been an advocate for my feelings and everything I've been unable to articulate about my experience with my father. I feel a little lighter for reading it, relieved someone out there understands how I feel.

Anyway read this back and feel a bit embarrassed now, hope I've not embarrassed you too! Will be brave and post this then hide.......sorry to have just parachuted into this thread I.....

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That's the tricky part, innit? I have to give Nell half an ear in case she's right for a change. Her manners are dreadful, but she has got a knack sometimes ...

... Not that I'd hesitate to throw her in the cow pats! HAHAHAHAHAAAAARHAAAHA!

Hello, may I join? I don't really quite fit but a couple of people on my recent AIBU thread suggested I check this thread out, and have already found it....not sure of the feeling....comforting? My thread is here fwiw --
my story

Hi, Bagofrefresher and mummeee I'm sorry you find yourselves here, but glad you found us!

People are tribal by nature: the drive to family loyalty is deeply ingrained. I think this is why it's so hard to face the fact that some families are harmful to their own members - it flies in the face of that, most basic, loyalty. It's a relief to discover other people have to face it, too ...

Hi bagofrefreshers, it's me, wanttostartafresh. I am so glad you have found your way to this thread and very happy that something I have posted has helped you.

Like Grace says, it is such a relief to discover that you are not alone in what you went through and how you feel.

I don't have much time now, but I hope you will post again, whenever you feel ready.

Just have a few minutes and wanted to get something out of my head. Diving, I liked the way you divided things up in your post, am going to copy:

I realise that instead of seeing DD for the beautiful, unique and individual little girl that she is, I was

1. Seeing her as my mother, and transferring onto her all the dislike, hatred and contempt I felt for my mother when I was a child, and

1. Treating her how my mother used to treat me, repeating the same patterns of being distant with her, irritated by her etc etc.

Both 1 and 2 were happening at the same time which is what made it all so confusing. I was at the same time in 'child' mode when I saw DD as my mother, and in 'mother' mode when i was treating DD as my mother used to treat me.

But in neither case was I really being myself and nor was I seeing DD or treating DD as herself.

It was all highly narcissistic behaviour on my part.

Something happened to trigger a 'lightbulb' moment for me recently and all of a sudden I could 'see' what drama DD and I had unconsciously been playing out. I could see hat role(s) I had cast DD in and what role I had been playing myself. I have now 'stepped out' of the 'drama' and am suddenly now able to see DD for who she really is and I am being who I really am.

I thought I posted earlier, but the post did not show up for some reason!

You are all doing so well with personal growth, I am learning so much about myself by reading this tread, well done all of you in sharing and moving forward in your journies.

Counselling issue is something I have looked at and that lady I was using was not the one for me!

Exotic, what you say about being narcasistic yourself, that sort of stuff scares me to think that we could have done that, I think with my parents there were elements of narcasisim, but they had empathy for others, which must mean they did not have full npd, just that they were abusive and did not realise that what they were doing was not right , or did not know how to fix things!

I totally get the drama with your dd, I have got mixed up with drama's with my dd also, it is not good! how did you step out of your drama?

Why did you see your dd as your mother? what do you think brought that about?

I can empathise with the treating your child like they are irritating you, I have showed irritation with my dd, but I have not been distant, if anything I have allowed the relationship with my children to be far too close, and I try to encourage distance with them and me, as I want them and me to be healthy, it works, I kind of push them at times to do things they don't want to do, they do it and are so pleased with themselves!

I really do blame myself for failing my children, I did an ok job before their dad left, and I know I was not pefect etc, but I have been a failure since he left as a parent, I was a shattered mess on the floor for a long time with all that he put us through!

Although I really want to go back to work once DS has settled into full time school (probably late 2011 or early 2012) I have been very worried about doing a job and having to go into work when I'm going through a depressive phase.

I can see a pattern emerging with my 'down' times. They seem to occur once a month and last about a week at a time. When I am depressed I have no energy at all and my mind is scrambled, I cannot think straight. There is no way I could work whilst I am in this phase. Outside the down phases I am fine, feel good, lots of energy, and you would never know I suffered from depression.

I am hopeful that by the time I find a job, provided I keep working on myself and my issues, my depressive phases will be less frequent. In any case I have decided I will tell any potential employer that I suffer from depression and that when it strikes I will not be able to come in to work. Because I feel that it is likely that I will suffer from depressive phases for a long time to come, if not for the rest of my life and I think I need to learn to accept this and learn to live with it instead of thinking that one day it will go away. Alice Miller talks about this 'journey' taking a lifetime and I think i am finally accepting that this is the case. A lifetime of abuse cannot be 'fixed' in a couple of years. It will likely, in my case at least, take a lifetime to recover and heal. I am sure that in years to come my past will take much more of a back seat than now and allow me to do more with my time, but I am sure there will still be times when it all hits me again, with full force and I will be knocked down again. Because there is no guarantee that I have turned over every stone in my past, and at any given point in time there could be a trigger which unleashes yet another load of stuff from my past. I think it is an endless, ongoing, spiral. But a healing, positive spiral at least.

I do hope that I will find a sympathetic, understanding employer who will not reject me because of this. This has always been a big worry at the back of my mind, that even though I am really looking forward to going back to work, I was very anxious about how I would cope when I am feeling absolutely terrible and can barely function. I think being upfront and honest about my depression is the only way forward and if somebody is willing to take me on with this knowledge about me, I will feel a lot happier about getting a job.

exotic, the pmt thing is something I have suffered from my whole life, a few days before my period starts feeling down, weepy and angry etc!

I have always done voluntry work, or studied when my children were at school do you think that may help you? It can't help you being at home all the time!

I have never read the book you refer to, have you spoken to anyone about recovery time?

Why do you feel you have to tell an employer about depression? I think when you are feeling better in a few days time, you will rethink this, lots of women abused or not have pmt hun, go easy on yourself x

MH, hello. I think it is inevitable that I would have treated DD like my mother treated me as I only started developing insight into myself and 'seeing' my family drama(s) when DD was around 3. I started breaking the cycle once I began to develop some self awareness, but before that I know I was, not consciously, repeating the patterns from my childhood.

I am not beating myself up about it though, because I couldn't help it, I wasn't acting knowingly, and I have now come a long way in breaking the cycle of abuse that I think the long term effect on DD will be minimal. And if in the future, DD does realise how I treated her, I will work with her and do my very best to help her heal. I intend, when my DC's are both a lot older, to introduce them to the work of Alice Miller and others and encourage them to reflect on themselves and develop insight into themselves. But unlike my parents, I will not deny their story, I will admit that everything they say and feel is true. In "Free From Lies" Alice Miller talks about doing this and I think she is absolutely right.

My 'lightbuld' moment came recently when DD had innocently done something which I felt intensely annoyed about. Too annoyed. I was with DH at the time and I told him that sometimes I just did not like DD. He said something like "But she has a good heart, she is always trying to help etc...." and it was as if all of sudden the scales fell from my eyes and I knew that what DH said was true and I knew that what i had been feeling had nothing to do with DD and everything to do with my parents. The person who deserved my intense annoyance and dislike was my mother, not DD. DD was just a beautiful little girl who loved me and just wanted me to love her back. It was as simple as that. All the feelings of dislike and hatred and annoyance belonged to my past, to my mother, who made me feel as if I was nothing but a nuisance, an annoyance, an irritation, ugly, repulsive. When all the time, i was, just like my DD, simply a little girl who loved her mother and wanted nothing more than her mother to love her.

I feel so sad when I think about how I have treated DD, all this time she has simply been seeking what she is perfectly entitled to from me and needs from me, for her mother to love her. But I have felt she is too demanding, attention seeking, clingy and annoying and irritating. But she is none of those things, just as I wasn't. When I feel sad for DD i know I am also feeling sad for myself as a little girl, the same age as DD, feeling lonely and rejected and knowing there was something she needed from her mother but was not getting and having no understanding about any of it at the same time. And not being able to communicate her needs nor how she felt, because she was just too young, and so she was trapped, alone in her world, feeling no connection with the most important person in her life, her mother. That's how I felt as a young child, and I am sure it's how DD feels sometimes.