'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I really appreciate you all supporting me and talking to me when I have been so useless at helping others.

I have to go for a bit now to get on with the food. Birthday boy will be home shortly.

Just a quick thought -

thinking about things makes it worse but then trying to pretend it hasn't happened doesn't help me get over it/deal with it.

That's true, Fab. Worrying it over reinforces any unhelpful feelings you've got about it. Working it through constructively, on the other hand, helps with coping & healing. Getting a sympathetic but different point of view (from a book, or a counsellor, or both) is necessary because it's practically impossible to "see the wood for the trees" all by yourself.

Fab, hi, I can totally relate to your description of being on self destruct mode, especially wrt your relationship with DH. I have been there and done that. Not long ago I seemed to have this inner driving force that seemed to be out to destroy my marriage and break up our relationship and it was what I wanted. I honestly thought I just wanted to end our marriage, because I thought it was bound to end sooner or later as how could somebody with all my problems ever sustain a long term relationship? I kept telling DH i wanted to split up and behaving in such a way that I thought would make him leave me. I thought about what a relief it would be once he was gone from my life, trying to make it work with him was such hard work, I just felt I had run out of steam and we were trying to make something work that simply could not work. A bit like trying to fit a square marriage into a round hole iykwim. It just wasn't working and I was just so tired of it not working and thought it would just be easier if we split up.

Things really reached crisis point recently, we had decided to give it another year and split up next year if things hadn't improved at all. And it wasn't even that we didn't love each other anymore because we did. We just couldn't seem to live together in harmony.

Things are much better now, I've explained how things improved in my recent posts. We are both suddenly able to see the 'wood for the trees'.

All I am saying is that you are not alone in feeling like you are on self destruct mode. I wondered whether I felt like that because I had had so many important relationships as a child which had ended in me feeling unloved, unwanted, abandoned and rejected and it somehow didn't feel right that DH and I had been together for 10 years. It would have felt much more right for me if he had left me as that would have followed the pattern I was used to as a child.

Hello again. This is only a somewhat-related issue but I want help & am hoping somebody wise will come along and restart me!! Self-sabotage. I'm getting worse. I just don't get things done, at all. I feel as though there's someone standing over me, nagging (there isn't of course: it's yours truly). I then get all resentful & passive-aggressive by not doing the task ... or, often, anything at all. I'm driving myself nuts!

Can anybody offer a few wise words, an idea or a kick up the backside?

Well, everyone has gone and I told MIL I wasn't good today so wasn't ignoring her. DH and I have just spoken and he did get pissed off with me but we have talked but I don't think he can understand some issues as I can't understand them myself.

I analyse things such a lot and the practical and logic side of me thinks I feel x because of but what if it is because of z? And knowing why I might have an issue doesn't make it easy to deal with it.

I was wondering if I should just fake it.

Maybe give up the idea of trying to work through things, maybe I never will.

Every time there's a flurry of posts it either triggers some realisation for me.

The control thing is huge for me - and tied into it all is the thing about finding partners who are as scarred as us. I realise I have been controlling every little detail of my H's life since we met really. And he let me, because nobody ever cared about him enough to want to do that, and because it was easier to be taken along with steamroller Miaow.

He's now having his mid-life crisis and accepting he has his own problems (although he seems unable to commit to changing himself - he just seems to think therapy will do it for him) and I can't really blame him for his feelings changing (although I have serious issues with how he's handled it all).

I think perhaps what triggered it all for him is the way we are both better parents than we ever experienced. I think that set something off in him and made him realise that his childhood wasn't right. Perhaps he realised that he deserved something more than the way we were, but couldn't tell me how he felt. Whatever happens it has triggered me to take my own problems seriously.

As far as counselling, I definitely agree that it doesn't do anything to you. My new counsellor asked me what I wanted out of the sessions (I only have a limited number) and I said I wanted to try to learn what was triggering my destructive behaviours and how to control that. I want this, and I'm committed to it - even though I come out of the sessions feeling wrung out, it confirms to me that there is plenty for me to work through, and plenty that I can change.

Fab - I spent all of my adult life trying not to deal with things. This has cost me my marriage. I haven't dealt with things yet, but the realisation of all that has gone wrong has made me start to do it, and I am feeling better for it even if it won't get my marriage back

ChairMum

I seem to have no control over some things I do and no real care about the consequences accept the complete fear of dh leaving me.

Grace listen closely to the voice...you may hear it's not yours at all.

Fab - I never believed my H would leave me (in fact he didn't, he tried to pretend he still felt something for me because he feels guilty I am pregnant and having to deal with this, and I kicked him out once I made him admit how he felt).

Anyway, I know how you feel about not having control. I felt that way about getting angry with H, or upset with other people about things that weren't done to hurt me. It is only now that I've had the horrible painful motivation to start really examining myself that I can start to see why I was doing it, and the real effects it was having on people. That gave me the strength to start changing my behaviour. But I have found that to do that, I have had to drop the idea that I am fine and coping and that it would all somehow sort itself out if I could just keep going. I have accepted that I am damaged and that I am going to have to do some painful introspection to start to put the effect of that damage right. I have to do it for myself, but mostly I can do it because I can't stand the thought of doing to DS (and the new one due in June) any part of what was done to me

I am wondering whether I should just give up the therapy, give up thinking about the past, give up trying to sort my head out.

Trouble is, I have legal stuff going on and everything is all linked together - my childhood, the bad stuff that happened, my first love, my head fighting itself. It goes on.

Newbie to Stately Homes..have just posted on another thread, but QueenofWhatever suggested I come over here. Here is my story.
Posted recently about my mum, but would like to go into more detail to see if I can get rid of the heavy burden hanging over me.
In short I am an only child & was very much loved (over loved, intensely loved). Also the only gc, so much intensity. My mum didn't like my dad, so I was the total focus (along with my GM) of my mother.

In my late teens my M&D divorced & whilst my mum went to live with her mum, I was made homeless. I was told there was no room for me. Being a bit of a sap, I just accepted it (what else could I do?) but it's only as having my own DC that I've started to 'critique' my childhood.

I've had a couple of meltdowns over the years & have spoken to counsellors & psychologists. The bottom line is my mother was very dominant...I've just been introduced to the area of toxic parenting & am seeing examples of this throughout my childhood.

Over the last 8 yrs or so Mum & I have started to clash..perhaps from me forming my own (different from her) opinion. Perhaps it's been a separation process which hasn't gone down well.
Anyway, the bottom line is the last 4-6 times I've seen her, we've had a big shouty argument. I've now not spoken to her for nearly 10 weeks.
SHe has called my MIL & said she is sad, MIL has said she doesn't want to get involved, which is fair enough.
I had a bit of a dilemma about mothers day & ended up being in a high state of anxiety which evaporated as soon as the day passed.

Every morning i wake up (bit like when you have been dumped by a boyfriend) with this hanging over my head. I have explained to my mum countless times about the homeless thing - she says well, you were grown up/had gone abroad/where messy & untidy ie blames me.
I need help because it's eating me away . I've spent the last almost 3 years trying to talk to her about my childhood (she says, yes, I wish i could do it differently, when I talk about my GM she says, oh she's old (now dead)), so I'm either saying the wrong thing, or she's not having any of it.

MarshaMallow, thank you very much! You were right, of course. Now figuring out what to do about it ...

caughtinafog - The feeling that you 'must' love your mother is very strong, not only for cultural reasons but because we're hard wired that way. It's hard to face what went wrong there, without feeling conflicted & guilty. I think you need to cut yourself some slack.

I still struggle with feeling responsible for my mum's emotional well-being. Although I'm pleased we've now had Those Conversations, I still come away feeling as if I've let her down by forcing her to "look".

Actually, I don't need to worry: as soon as she's done her 'duty' by me, she settles right back into her default mode of "My marriage was very happy and Grace has mental health problems." I'm distressed to know she's lived her whole adult life in emotional conflict - between the reality of her marriage and her chosen perception - but it's not my business to overturn what must be a very difficult survival mechanism for her. I can't go back and make her leave Dad (in fact, she says she wouldn't anyway) so, for me, the best I can do is be grateful that she has listened to me ... and muddle along with my damage, trying to fix it.

The above is really about the compassion I feel for both my parents, although it doesn't alter the fact they broke a child they should have nurtured. It took me a long time to find genuine, adult compassion for them and it doesn't make me any less angry over what they did. I'm still trying to learn real compassion for myself! But I'll get there

itsgraceagain could you break tasks down to 10-15min chunks, a bit like fly lady..helps me & I am a serious procrastinator.

..so what is the key to moving forward ? As I've said I've tried many times to talk/tell my mum what I am unhappy about. The last time we visited I literally couldn't bear the sight of her. She managed to wangle staying an extra day (arrived the previous day) & within an hour or so I was at bursting point. I told her I couldn't stand her, she told me I was mad, said I should have kids, that I never cook (hello ? I cook 3 meals a day & proper food at that) that DH does everything. I screamed at her to get out & she did the same to me. I went out & that was it really..
I think/feel I ought to tell her exactly what the problem is, OTOH I feel like i never want to see her again.

feelingforty this is why I went no contact with my Mum 12 years ago and am currently going no contact with my Dad. I'm not saying that's what you should do, but it's been the only solution for me. It's mad making when they argue black is white.

My Dad sat there arguing with me at Christmas that my life is much easier as a lone working parent than my flexible working sister with three children married to a SAHD. I fell straight back into the pattern of trying to make a logical argument (I'd recently spent too long around normal, rational people) and it took me several weeks to understand what has happened as I felt ambushed.

To date, this is the only proper conversation, as far as it went, that my Dad and I have had about me leaving my abusive ex of seven years last summer. And people say your family are there to support you...

wow i have just caught up with this thread, you have all done so much thinking, you really are amazing folk!

I was wondering if anyone who has gone through therapy and changed themselves has had problems with other people around them not being able to accept that change?

I am stronger, and I am now well aware of the transferance/scapegoating/projection thing that goes on now, so that side of things is not bothering me, it is just that I wonder how I will ever be able to rekindle relationships, as people knew me as a pushover, someone to control and manipulate etc and I am the opposite now, totally different (still soft really) and on to them so to speak, they can't cope with the change in me, and are at times getting nasty to me, projecting and scapegoating me etc, I am frankly bored of it all, and actually now I realise that I was surrounded by a lot of unhealthy people who I thought were better than me and I am quite scared of how nieve and trusting I was, I can see others who are the same as I was and it is just sad really, that these controlling manipulative one's are trampling over weaker people, it is really darwin out there still!

and we had parents that trained us to be weak, so that they could be alpha in their own homes! it is so sad!

I am feeling better in myself that last few days, much more positive and have been proactive etc...

Also people are trying to get back in touch with me, i am not ready, and it makes me angry about what they did and how weak I was that I allowed them to do that stuff to me.... I want to be left alone until I can sort myself out and it is a good time for me!

I started another thread but after reading this I am seeing so many similarities. I had a emotially and sometimes physically abusive mother and I am just beginning to realise this may be why I have problems with anxiety, depression control issues. It sounds weak, even to me but I didn't realise I was depressed until my husband said he was leaving.

He has also had issues with depression and gambling but has overcome them and now wants to leave me because I make him miseable.

I have been to drs and arranged counselling session, started proac.

Struggling with H though. He was moving out but has now said he will stay as friends until I sort myself out and then will decide if he wants to try again. Trouble is I didn't see this coming, I should have but my mother told me she was leaving after an argument so I didnt realise everyone didn't do this ( even sounds stupid to me now!). I am devasted and swinging between calm and crying. I have tried asking for us to try now so I have stability to deal with my issues but its his way or he moves out.

God this is tough. Trying to hide everything from kids and my parents as can hardly tell my mother we are splitting up cause of my behaviour as a result of my childhood.

So many amazing posts since I last logged on, I don't know where to start.

In random order, MH, I completely understand your dilema about now you have changed and are no longer a pushover the people in your life don't like it, don't like you standing up for yourself and not just accepting being treated badly anymore. I have been through exactly the same issue. The hardest one(s) to deal with were my sisters. I started not accepting being treated like rubbish by them and they got very angry, nasty and blaming with me. If I just meekly went along with their way of doing things they were as sweet as pie.

As of this year I decided to simply stop contact with them, not forever, but until I feel I am ready to be back in contact with them knowing they will still try and trample all over me.

As for friends who trample over me, I realise I was lucky enough to not have too many of those. I am still friends with many people from "before" iykwim. Some of them definately have issues and I can see this when I spend time with them, I try not to get upset by them and things might bother me for say, a day, but then I get over it. Not like things with my sisters where I would be upset for days if not months by things they would say and do. I don't know any other way to handle the situation as if I cut out every friend who has tried to be nasty/manipulative I would have no friends at all although I do have 1 friend who I can honestly say has a heart of gold and has never been mean or nasty or manipulative with me.

caughtinfog, hi and welcome to the thread. I can relate to what you have said too. Especially about starting to clash more with your mum as you start to form your own opinions. I think what happens in dysfunctional families is that the individuation/seperation process that normally takes place in healthy families during the teenage years, when the 'clashing' normally takes place, does not happen in healthy families. We stay attached to our parents during the teenage years. But then, later on, if we start to become aware of the dysfunction in our families, we almost have our teenage years at a later stage. The parents find it hard as they are used to being in total control over you and they fight back in order to try and maintain their power and control over you.

Unfortunately I think you will get nowhere in trying to get your mum to see your pov and understand how you felt when she made you homeless. A 'healthy' parent would understand how you felt at that time (a healthy parent wouldn't have made you homeless) and would not be trying to find excuses for her behaviour. But your mother is not healthy and will not react as you want. Like Grace said, the social pressure to love your parents no matter what they do is very strong. But it is unhealthy to 'love' somebody, whose job it is to look after and protect you, but who has actually hurt you very badly.

feelingforty, you say you feel like never want to see your mother again. Trust your feelings, don't override them with rationalisations. You feel like you never want to see your mother again for a very good reason.

Grace and Marshmallow; I think MM gave you excellent advice about examining the voice in your head. It is likely to be the critical voice of your parents telling you all the time that you are not good enough, useless, lazy etc. I had the same thing. A constant feeling that I was useless at everything, lazy, rubbish. I would get so stressed out about housework, cooking, what I did with the DC's, everything. But one day I suddenly realised that the reality did not match the voice in my head. I would talk to other people and find out they were doing exactly the same things as me wrt housework, the DC's etc. And I suddenly realised I was not lazy or useless but that I was perfectly normal and it was only because of the voice in my head that I felt I was rubbish.

Sal, am so glad you have found this thread. I also had no idea that it was not normal for people to leave you or permanently hate you after an argument. You can repair and heal the damage done to you as a child. My DH has been on the verge of leaving me as well but we have realised that our problems are pretty much completely down to my childhood and it has transformed our relationship. I recommended some books earlier for couples where one partner had an abusive childhood, I would really recommend you get hold of them and read them together with your DH.

Thanks exotic traveller. I have been doig a lot of reading on the web and am starting to realise that a lot of the things I have been experiencing or doing are down to the depression but now I feel guilty blaming it all on a disease... On the one hand I am relieved that there may be light there but on the other I feel I should be to blame. Did others feel like that?

Hi sal, I can understand you feeling guilty about putting all or most of your problems down to your childhood. It feels like you are trying to evade responsibility for yourself and your behaviour. But putting things down to your childhood is not really about evading taking responsibility for yourself, but knowing where to look in order to start the process of solving your problems as an adult.

Sal - I feel like that too - like the depression (while providing a real reason for my actions) is just an excuse. But its not - it is real, but it is something you have to manage it.

What helps for me is to say that yes, the depression was to some extent responsible for my actions, but now I can see what happened, I am responsible for taking control of my depression - which for me means sticking with the ADs which have made such a difference already and keeping on with the counselling even though it is hard. I AM going to change my behaviours!

Thank you. I am so glad it isn't just me with these thoughts. I have arranged a first session of counselling next week and have started the Ad's. I just feel so drained at the moment but I am determined to get better.

Hi again Grace...how to deal with your/not your negative voice?? I have no idea! I think we each have to find our own way with this one.

As exotictraveller said it can be as straightforward as learning to have a more positive attitude to yourself - a difficult thing to do, but relatively easy to know where to start - once you have unearthed who your voices belong to and are open to creating the new you. I believe CBT can be good for this type positive self esteem building.

Now, my personal self-sabotaging is a funny one. It seems to be that I overcame the control factor forced upon me by my negative voice's owner by rebelling! Yup, full on 'up your bum' I will do what I want, when I want and the complete opposite of what I am told to! I think this was my way of coping at the time, I reinforced my self-esteem through sheer arsyness!

So I held on to my self-esteem through arsyness...now my negative voices owner went and changed the rules of the game! Now they tried to control me through positive affirmations, they kept telling me that I was doing a wonderful, job achieving so much, they were so proud of me etc etc...but after all these years I was/am still stuck in arsymode!

So what do I do now.... as I am left with this personality type - I am quite happy doing everything they think is a bad idea and can never do anything that they think is a good idea! So when they affirm anything I am of a mind set to do exactly the opposite!

For instance I have a home study course sat on my desk, this course is my passport to a new me, a confident financially self sufficient me...it is the 'answer' to stepping out of the old me and into the new. I start said course, I get 3/4 of the way through and bam.....the owner of my negative voice gives me their approval!

That's it, my course has sat on the desk for the past 2 years...I open it, I start it repeatedly but I just can't finish the damned thing as arsy me is still in charge.

It's time for the rebel in me to go or at least soften her attitude...but I just don't know how to get rid of her - she has become the essence of my survival and I suppose if I'm honest I admire her ability to put two fingers up to the world!

So here I am stuck...my new 'me', my final leap into an authentic me is sat looking at me very day.....but I just don't know how to grasp the new me completely.

Dunno if you recognise any of this Grace or anyone else...if you do and can point me in a rough direction of how to overcome the rebel in my self please, oh please feel free to advise.