'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

thirtysomething and queenofwhatever, sorry, didn't mean to ignore your posts, I can relate to what both of you have said as well.

Sorry have to go back later.

Hi again, thanks to those who posted in reply. My soon to be ex DP thinks I get disproportinately angry over small things - usually house related things like stuff not being done etc - but I feel that he doesn't pull his weight etc. It is so difficult because we have tried counselling and we both love each other but don't have the energy to fight for this relationship anymore.

Is there a way to make it right? Does the abuse always impact on our relationships? How do you think it makes you behave in relation to your DPs now/in the past? I will get some of the books recommended but that won't help me this evening. I am so very sad. We have a 1 year old together and she will lose her family unit because we can't make it work anymore.

And, this thread is great by the way. I have never met another person in RL who has said they were sexually abused. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have but because it is such a taboo very few of us talk about it in RL because - in my case anyway - we don't want to be stigmatised or given a "victim" label.

And, housework has always been a massive issue in our house. Me criticising him for not doing any and him thinking I have ridiculous standards. But why is everything down to abuse? Most couples I know argue about housework.

Reddaisy, I think exotictraveller was trying to answer your question about impact on relationships last page, where she talked about hers and the books she's reading. (Thanks, ET, point taken and I will get hold of the books.)

I read all the Amazon reviews for the titles she mentioned, and was struck by the honest sadness of reviewers who had decided the burden of dealing with this fallout was too much to bear. I'm very nervous about making any statements outside of the personal in this thread (been in trouble for it!) ... and have just deleted this paragraph. Feel free to respond, though!

"why is everything down to abuse?"

In my case, it is. I wish otherwise, but there's sod all I can do about what's past. My entire take on the world: on how other people think; my expectations; my emotional sensitivities & insensitivities; my strengths & weaknesses - was formed by my father, and he was insane. Basically, I could only get along with insane people because that's all I knew & understood. I'm not using 'insane' as a clinical word here; it isn't a clinical word anyway!

Your case may not be the same. A whole bunch of stuff depends on whether you were subjected to prolonged abuse, whether someone helped you to know it wasn't right, and on what kind of personality you were born with. I have a couple of friends who were raped in childhood and whose (stable, emotionally-normal) parents gave them enough sympathy, and a healthy enough perspective on the events, that they carried no scars into adulthood.

So I can't tell you about yourself. Everybody's different but - as you implied earlier - some kinds of damage do have predictable effects.

Getting hung up on the housework means nothing. I asked a specific question about it, and ET answered. It really is one of my stumbling blocks - and I'm trying to make a list of them for tomorrow's session. That's all about housework!

Quick question:- Do you have "ridiculous standards"?

Hi, ItsGraceAgain, thanks for your reply. And good luck for your session tomorrow. Do you find them useful?

I don't think I have ridiculous standards. I do the usual cleaning up of the kitchen after meals etc, tidy up after the DC at the end of the day and washing. Proper clean with bathrooms and hoovering etc is done once a week- once every two weeks.

I have always been bossy since I was little and before my father died (when I was 8) and my stepfather moved in (when I was 9) and began his systematic control of our lives. The sexual abuse didn't last very long I think - I have blocked many of the details - but the emotional abuse continued until the day I left to go to university.

I think because it was always impossible to be myself for my adolescent years that during my adult years I have been determined to "be in charge" of my life and how it is run that I leave little room for argument leaving my dp to feel steamrollered. My dp also has a teenage daughter and my relationship with her has become increasingly fraught and that is another friction point between us.

So between my childhood abuse, having a young daughter together, issues with my stepdaugher and various work problems I don't feel we stood a chance.

exotic so much of what you say rings so true for me. Especially when you talk about the double standard of "we love you so much" parents who then do absolutely the opposite in their behaviour. It's so confusing.

As an adult it has left me incapable of making a decision (even over which teabags to buy when at its worst!!) as I don't trust my own judgement or instincts as I have been conditioned to gloss over the truth and what my eyes and feelings are telling me to believe what others want me to believe.

The worst part now as an adult is having to deal with my mother berating me for being indecisive and childish and that I should "grow up". The irony is that in many ways I had to grow up the moment I was born and have parented her all my life, but all she sees is a child in the sense of someone to try and manipulate and control and belittle for appearing weak, "oversensitive" and indecisive. Thanks Mum.

Grace, ridiculous standards? Not about housework (OK, some) but mad rules about life. My defining reason for not leaving my ex for seven years, if I'm honest the reason I got together with him even though I never fancied him is that we met via Internet dating and I contacted him first.

I put up with years of abuse, denigration, forced sex and my money taken because one evening in 2001 I sent him an e-mail. Stupid, huh?

Well, reddaisy, that doesn't look too "ridiculous" but the issues are probably more to do with the steamrollering than the detail. It's interesting that you have so much insight into your control issues but feel - what? Trapped in them, maybe? Similarly, a teenage daughter with parent issues of her own would make a likely trigger for you. How very sad, for everyone involved.

Therapy has changed me fundamentally, in ways I wanted to change. Rehash: Therapy doesn't 'do' anything 'to' you. It is helping me to make the changes I wanted, but had no ability to do on my own. The funny thing is that, each time a change happens, I just find it's "there". I have to think quite hard to remember how I would have done something differently, before the change.

It has its downsides, though. My commitment means I fail to 'perform' in lots of other areas of my life. Some things I tend to over-examine, plus the sheer emotional & intellectual effort is exhausting! It seems worthwhile to me. I'm already one of the sanest members of my family (!) and have great confidence that I'll sort the ordinary things out as I muddle along with my "stuff". It isn't for everybody and I respect that.

Queen, your 22:17 post made me wail with recognition! Oh ... poor you
And, yes, I so have subjected myself to absurd levels of denigration, just because - what? Something like "I've started so I'll finish?" God.

Not stupid, exactly. Just very - very - misguided.

cremeeggs, that's something to do with what you wrote about the teabags, isn't it? It's not that I didn't see what was being done to me, more like my 'training' kicked in to make me instantly question, deny and over-write what I'd seen. Each time it happened, I would find myself getting lost for hours on my home turf! It once took me 5 hours to walk from Battersea Park Road to Clapham Junction. In daylight. (It's about a mile and a half.) Just as you described: it's as though my determination to "not know" what happened earlier, had rendered me unable to know the way home. Horrid.

I had a massive setback over the last two years, while I was living with my mum again (long story). This is probably why I can't stop doing "my stuff" now - making up for lost time! Mum and I have had the necessary discussions, but she's never going to change her perspective - it would be too painful for her and she's 80 this year. I maintain some detachment, and try to ease her happiness for now. She deserves an uncomplicated life after all that, and she can't give me a different childhood.

Haven't read all recent posts, but just a quick one - a thought that struck me about the whole housework and having control issues and getting disproportionally stressed when things aren't done the way you want - When you are controlled as a child and bad things are done to you and you feel you have no control over it, it is just going to happen whatever you do, I think this makes you feel anxious in later life if you don't feel you have control over everything all the time. You feel scared that if you lose control even a little bit, bad things might happen and they might be as bad as what happened in the past. It's a fear of having to go through it again.

Grace, I like what you said about therapy not 'doing' something 'to' you, I agree. And when change happens it is just there like you said and you can't remember how you would have done things before.

Cremeeggs, just to add to the mixed and contradictory messages I used to get from my parents, in between being nasty, my dad could be really, really nice. So it wasn't a case of being nasty 100% of the time, whilst telling me he loved me etc etc. It was telling me he loved me, but then at times acting like he hated me to the very core, and at other times acting like he did actually like me and love. So very, very, very, confusing, inconsistent, contradictory and fundamentally damaging to a child whose sense of self, self esteem and self confidence are still developing and very fragile.

Growing up with my parents was a complete 'head fuck' (please excuse my language) and it's no wonder I have had such problems in my marriage from day 1. It's a wonder it lasted this long really, but then as one of those books says, we are attracted to our partners for a reason and it is very likely that at a deeply subconscious level, DH sensed something in me that was familiar to him, (his toxic mother) and that was the real reason why he married such a damaged person as me and has stayed with me throughout all this; he probably sees me as his mother and is hoping that he will get from me what he needed but never got from her, he is staying with me in the fruitless hope that one day his unmet needs will be met by me, not realising this will never happen as it is only his mother who could have given him what he needed as a child and now it is too late, nobody else can ever fill that gap that she left.

He himself is completely unaware of this and may never gain any awareness as to his own issues. But the books clearly talk about the fact that the partner of a survivor ideally needs to realise that as well as the relationship issues caused by the survivor's problems, he will have added to the mix with his own childhood issues. DH firmly believes he has no issues at all and there is nothing I can do about that.

reddaisy, an important point to note is that if you find yourself getting disproportionately angry or upset about something that is happening in the present day, it is very likely that the present day event has triggered something from your past, and the anger you are feeling today is actually anger from your past which you suppressed at the time because as a child you did not have the capacity to process the enormous emotions you were feeling at the time caused by the abuse/neglect. Don't know if that makes any sense to you?

Alice Miller explains it really well in ber books, have you read any of them?

Does anyone remember me?

Can I totally use you all to help me, please?

Helloooo Fab, how are you?

Hi

I am really struggling tbh as there is no one I can talk honestly with and I am fed up of fighting the analytical side of me with the little child who no one wanted and wants nothing but to be loved.

Why do you feel you should fight the little child?

I have never acknowledged really the stuff that happened to me as a child and I really don't want too but I do know I have too.

Oh poor you, Fab
Thanks for the hello! I am sending "Little Fab" a nice hug and the offer of a fairy story

All I wanted was someone to love me and look after me and I have that with my dh and are messing it up.

'I have never acknowledged really the stuff that happened to me as a child and I really don't want too but I do know I have too.'

Me neither and I don't want to, but now I can't stop it. And also now that I've started, I don't want it to stop. I'm 40 years old and am so tired and fed up and angry of thinking I'm flawed and broken, just because my parents abused and neglected me.

Last night I was reading about memory loss and saw it described as 'motivated forgetting'. That has really resonated with me - I have been very motivated to forget and have used a variety of methods, drugs, drink, self-harm, casual sex, risk taking. But now I'm motivated to remember.

That sounds huge and scary, QueenofW.

Fab, your DH loves who you are - the grown-up you, with all your many flaws. Trust him to do that, as it's all you can ask of any adult.

It is a bit of a huge & complicated problem, for two main reasons: [1] You may be lacking in experience of what grown-up love is, and how it works; [2] If you were not loved unconditionally as a child, you're missing the secure foundations on which adult (conditional) love is built.

There are different ways of looking at that; the above might not be quite right for you ... In the end, though, the only person who can fix the broken parts of your childhood is you. Which is a bummer.

You are free to decide not to bother! Most people don't, the world is full of grown-ups expressing their childhood issues. Nobody says you must fix it, it's a choice. If you do decide to try it for yourself, the classic books are a good place to start: try Toxic Parents and/or Homecoming.

Keep posting

It is funny. I knew after 2 months I loved dh and also knew at about 5 months than he loved me. He hadn't told me but I would say to him I know you love me but you just don't know it yet. He was fine with me saying this and then one day he came home early just to tell me. We hadn't slept together and my friend was as how could I know I loved him when we hadn't had sex.

I know what dh and I have is for real but I feel I am self-destruct mode as it would make a change for me to mess my own life up rather than someone else do it.