'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Welcome to this thread MissVelvet, just read your blog and loved it for the 'right' reasons! I am sure your writing it enables some kind of catharsis on a daily basis as your environment at home sounds very unloving Writing on this thread too however will enable you to engage with others and will give you double the benefits. (Maybe you can do both?)

I only posted on this thread recently but did stalk it for a while and like you was so happy to know that I am not alone. Spend some time catching up on here as it will give you the confidence to post your own stories and feelings however petty you think they are, they niggle away at you and gnaw you alive!

On another note, sounds again like you have a classic NPD set up at your parents' house and are drowing in their toxic waste. At least you are on the road to seeing it for what it is and when you do make that break through you will feel so much stronger. This site will help you loads, I already feel so much stronger as no one here judges you and am so grateful to the lovely people on this thread for introducing it to me.
Your parents are so very wrong to treat you the way they do. Once you catch up on NPD, (try the website daughters of Narcassistic Mothers for classic traits etc) you will be a whole lot further into your own recovery and will not look back.

I look forward to reading your posts here.

butterfly, I hope to have the time to read your blog at some point, I hope that you find it usefull for you x

I have just had the oddest experience, I think it is just that I have been so compliant for so long that I had not realised how people have manipulated me so far in life, a bit of a lightbulb moment lol !

I had someone who is from a firm doing some building work around my home, phone, he firstly claimed he had left messages on my answerphone and stated I had not phoned back so he was chasing me up, well no answer phone, told him so, he then backtracked and said oh I can't read the handwriting of the person who left this message, then said he wanted to come at a certain day and time, I said No, he was so taken about, I gave no reason and it was like he could not cope with the simple no, he then tried to play games for power with me, and I cut him off at every post and he could not cope so kept trying, it then went, for him, well if you tell me when you are free, I said no you tell me when you are free, he said all different times, what times are you about, I said all different times, I said you tell me when you are free, he then said I will come when you are not there, I said I am not happy with you doing that, he needs access to house to come in anyways to do the work, and I got the feeling he would be asking for a key with a neighbour or something so cut him off at that one, then he said he was free the whole week after next, so I said monday at 4pm, he then said he could not make it and what other times could I give him, I then said you ring me back when you have times free and stop playing your power games with me... and that was what it was he wanted to have power over me to know my comings and goings and to know what I was doing etc, for just the hell of having that power over me, I had been so manipulated by people in the past that I had not realised how much of this goes on you get it will all sorts, all these little hitlers all over the place trying to be in control, it is scary... now that I am at the point where I won't be manipulated by people and can see through their games, it is almost like I am testing myself against them ready for when I go further into the real world as I have made my world very small at the moment when I am building up my strength... if that makes sense? has anyone else had any of these lightbulb moments with swinging a bat against these controlling people?

I'd always ignored the NPD stuff so far, but I've just read the 'daughters of narcissistic mothers' site and it rings so many bells it was a bit of a shock.

When my mother's bi-polar was worst she had two distinct personalities. At times she was, or acted like a good mother and was caring so I am wondering if one of her personalities had / displayed the NPD. I know it sounds odd but her conflicting behaviour was once of the worst things about my upbringing, and it helps to try to understand what was going on.

Mummiehunnie, one nil to you!
Chairmum, the daughters of narcissistic mothers website is an eye opener once you get over the initial shock of recognising one's mother!
I remembered something else this weekend whilst going through old photo albums with my eldest son who is home from uni, that my DM used to tell me that I was 'anti social' and that my DS was very sociable and that everyone loved her. Truth is I was so shy as a child and believed her about my DS so just retreated always if guests of my DF (never mum's, don't think she had any friends) were round. What a horrible thing to say to a child and what a way to perpetuate a child's shyness. My DM is a frigging joke. There should be a serious health warning for mums with NPD.

Has anyone heard of emotional strokes? I think that is what I am using this site for at the moment, feeling down and isolated and looking for strokes I am not getting in real life, I think I need to look there for them in a postiive way, thing is I know I am so needy still that I am scared...

I keep having to stop myself from contacting people who I know will give me negative strokes if I get in touch with them, I am craving love so much, family/parental love I will never have!

Has anyone else gone through this?

mummie - I find myself hankering after a family, however bad mine are, just because I know if I went to them and was just willing to be with them, they would want me back. And I am so lacking in people to just be there and make me feel better that some part of me wants it.

Of course I know that they would be giving me those negative strokes you're talking about, and that the emotional discovery and recovery that I'm slowly going through would be well and truly buggered by seeing them.

I didn't know this thread existed until i started my other thread and someone pointed me here. waw. it is amazing such a supportive thread exists. I will copy my other post to here and then go read over some of the thread.

I have been having all these very vivid memoried reciently, from my childhood, it is making me very nervous, and maybe even quite enraged.
My dad worked a lot when i was young so a lot of my time was spent with my mum and my sister, who is 2 years younger than me. My mum used to make my sister and i sit on the sofa and not move, if we moved we would get a slap, or several. She used to make us fight, and used to do things like say to my sister ' did prammy say a bad word?' my sister would be scared to answer, and my mum would say ' just tell me the truth and you wont get into trouble, i won't give her a row' if my sister said yes, she would get hit for not telling on me, and i would get hit for swearing. I remember spending hours in my room. I remember both my sis and i being taken out of our beds and put outside for having a carry on at bed time, when i was about 6.
A lot of things could be bringing these memories up, my mum was and still is very controlling. I am 24, my sister 22, i spoke to my sister to see if she remembers these things and her memories seem to be far worse than mine. For example she remembers wetting herself because she was so scared when my mum was shouting her, and because she wet herself she was wrestled to the floor and a nappy was put on her. She must have been at least 5 when that happened because she was 5 when our brother was born,it was his nappy.

So i have found myself being very short tempered towards my mum, and feeling very angry. The thing is, she still tried to control us, i have noticed that she is often saying bad things about my sister to me, and sometimes she doesn't even answer us if we speak to her. She lies a lot to us, tells one of us one thing and the other something else. Whenever i see her now all i can't act properly because i feel so nervous. I have been feeling like this for the past 6 month or so.

What would be the best way of dealing with it?

prammy- It is extremely hard for anyone to tell you what you should to wrt to your mother. It is a very personal and individual thing.
Without a shadow of a doubt you have had a 'very' difficult and abusive upbringing. You have every right to feel angry about that and probably want and need answers. Your mother sounds a very angry as well as 'controlling' woman. My mother was like this, incredibly angry and punishing.
Where did your father figure in this other than being absent emotionally? Did you or your sister ever try and talk to him about what was happening at home?
What was/is your parents relationship like?
I would imagine that what happened to you (and to your sister) has impacted greatly on your lives now and how you interact with others and your relationship with yourself. Your self-esteem I mean.
The best advise I can give you is to start facing up to what happened (which it sounds as though you are doing).
Use this thread as support whilst you do this. If you can afford a counsellor to talk through these memories as they surface you will probably find it incredibly helpful.
There are books that will also help you make sense of things, like for example 'Toxic parents' by Susan Forward. Writing in a journal would also be useful.
Some people write letters as part of the process. A letter to your mother confronting her would probably help, but then you must decide wether you send it or just keep it for yourself. Just going through the process of 'writing' the letter can be helpful without actually sending it.
Some people also create boundaries like lmiting time with the parent who abused them or cutting them out altogether.
It is all part of a process, a journey if you like but it is 'your' own personal process and journey so how you go about it must be your choice.
Just try and let your instincts guide you.

Prammy nothing is set in stone, you can change your mind also, I was determined a month ago I would never see my parents again, now I am thinking that may not be the case, chopping and changing my mind continually, just seeing what feels right

have found myself posting on the old thread a few times,
I can't work out how to start dealing with this, but am seeign a therapist and hopefully she will guide me. But today I have had a breakthrough that has shocked me ad upset me.

Even though I had fled for my own safety from a man who had orally vaginaly and anally raped me, the fear of my fathers reaction over rode the fear I was feeling about the attack and the need for medical attention.

I have known these facts for the last 20 years, but it is only today that the reality of that has hit me.

My father was a very violent man his rage was normally focussed towards my siblings but mainly because I had managed to become as invisible as possible, this would have raised my head above the parapit and put me in the firing line. He was already in a rage because I wasn't at the arranged meeting point.

How do I start to work through this?

Greyskull, what a dreadful experience.

How long is it before you see your therapist?

Are you exploding with anger? (I am at your story!)
If you are, I hereby give you permission to rant, rage, stamp your feet and break things. I find old crockery and the garden wall very useful at certain moments! Standing somewhere noisy (like under a motorway bridge) and screaming your heart out is good, too. And going for a run.

Here's a technique I learned from "Homecoming". I don't know how weird it will seem, if you're not familiar with the book or this type of work:- Make yourself comfortable and imagine the scene as if you were watching it on a cinema screen (in black-and-white if that's easier to bear). As the girl in the film reaches the end of her ordeal, step into the movie - as your adult self - take her by the hand and comfort her as she should have been comforted. Take her the doctor's if you like, and you may also want to go with her to meet her/your father and give him the earful he deserves.

I've done this many times over, with some memories. I find it helpful, but please don't think you have to if you don't like the sound of it!

Be gentle on yourself. Virtual hug.

no - that is just it - not anger at all, I have a good relationship with my dad now - and yet I can now see clearly how our relationship when I was 11 changed the person who I am..

I have so tried to do the being with her as my adult self but I have PTSD and at the moment, each time I am remembering specific things I am trapped there as an 11 year old over and over again.

Cripes. That was definitely an unsuitable suggestion then!

As a means of survival you may have diminished the enormity of what you went through, and the despair of being too afraid of your dad to ask for help. As you're on good terms with your dad now, I'd imagine you have mixed emotions about it even now. Were you able to tell him soon after; did he then help you?

Don't answer if you don't want to.

no he and my mum know nothing about it at all

Thnak you, i am so glad i found this place, you know, i have always thought my upbringing was normal, until i started seeing other peoples adult relationships with their parents.
My parents still live together, but they dont really speak, the house is always in darkness and silence.

Greyskull, I can see how this whole business is putting you through impossible mental contortions and am not surprised you are traumatised! You've kept it secret from them all these years; suffered alone at the age of eleven? You poor kid.

I can't offer you much in the way of advice, since there seem to be complicated things going on between you and your parents. Unless a professional comes along in a minute, I suspect it's best worked out with your therapist.

One thing I would do in your position (safer than the last idea) is to write A Letter You Will Not Send to your parents about it. That way, you might be able to examine & express your feelings without having to go into too much detail. It may possibly be useful in your counselling, too. Or if you're not a writer, tell a story in pictures.

All I can say really is I feel for you. And I want to beat up your father!!!!

Not ignoring you, PrammyMammy. Welcome to the weird world of slowly unfolding facts about your own history! Quite a relief to know it's not so terribly unusual, isn't it. (I mean a relief to know you're not alone, not that so many families are fucked up!!)

thanks Grace,
I am going to try to get some sleep.. start a fresh in the morning.

Hi Prammy - sorry a bit self involved at the mo - hopefully I can be more supportive when I have calmed down.

Nothing on the scale of the above - but I've just reminded myself about something.

One of my dad's 'amusements' was to send me out to eat off the ground at the end of the garden, "like a dog". I have to keep revisiting this, as I normalised it to the extent that, even in hindsight, I find it hard to feel as outraged as I should. It's one of my very few memories - I know it was a frequent occurrence, but have just the one memory of it (because it was raining & the woman next door asked me what was up). After writing to BTPOG just now, I "went back" to the 8-year-old crying in the rain, and this time I stormed into the house and had a go at my dad (in my imagination). I said that, if he humiliated his daughter again, I'd tell the newspapers. And, all of a sudden, I realised that would have had an impact. He got away with his shit because he was an "authority figure". He would have been terrified of bad publicity (and the papers would have loved it).
What a shame there was nobody like me around, back then!

oh Grace that is hideous! I am angry at your father on your behalf people like that shouldn't be allowed to have children

Grace, that is despicable behaviour on your father's part. Actually, you can not call someone who does that to a child a 'father'. Did he do this to your siblings too or was it just you?

Prammy, I can relate to that 'darkness and silence' in your parents' house. Makes you just want to fly into the light like a moth. It just adds to the depressing environment. Phew, just count myself lucky that I don't go to my DMs house anymore. Feels like I did a prison sentence and that I am now enjoying my freedom where there can be light love and happiness.

Greyskull, My thoughts are with you. I hope you will seek a professional PTSD therapist /counsellor who can enable you to reconnect with people and move on with your life.

thanks calvados, I have been seeing a ptsd therapist for the last 18 months, we are going slowly and gradually dealing with the different things that come up. it was just this last session's revelations that have shaken me.. it explains so much.

Calvados, my only other memory of that particular trick is of a sunny day, when my siblings all picked up their plates and came outside with me! It was an "I'm Spartacus" moment

Greyskull, my thoughts are also with you. Take care.

I have now just had chance to read a huge chunk of this thread and I just want to say in the nonpatronisingest way possible - WOW you are all a group of amazing ladies. Being able to be balanced and live your lives with the knowledge of what you have (or when it comes to loving nurture have not ) experienced as a child.

I am very grateful for your comments, and hope to be able to offer some kind words when possible.

greyskull - welcome to the thread. Your experiences sound too horrific for words and I hope you fins some closure through your counselling.

My H is moving out today and I guess it has brought out my feelings of frustration. I had my recurring dream about shouting and shouting at my parents, trying to get them to listen to me, to acknowledge what they have done and how they have affected my life. It's normally a very upsettind and frustrating dream but (although the details are hazy) this time I woke withthe feeling that I had managed to express myself better. I was still frustrated because even in my dream I didn't get the reactions I wanted, but it feels like a step forward.

I have realised that, in H as well as my blood family I have surrounded myself with people who have been unable to give themselves emotionally - who have never given me solid emotional feedback. It's a sad realisation that I thought he would change through my influence when I'm not exactly the most emotionally stable person around. I can't change H. Even if he were willing to let me, so I have to leave him to sort ou his own problems and focus on mine - including the ones he has left me, like raising a baby (come June) and a toddler without a partner.

I thought for years that with H I had broken the pattern of unhealthy relationships that surrounds my family, but I think I just found a slow burning, flesh eating sort of failure instead