'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Mummiehunnie, you sound so bright and are no fool. I think the fact that you can look at the situation you were in and see that it was a living hell and you still got out and are prepared to work on healing yourself is truly inspiring. Your DM is one of life's losers as a result of the awful childhood he would have had with a drunk father, ill mother and possible child sex abuse at the hands of the priest. Ireland is only dealing now with this issue after years of covering it up using religion (Sisters of Mercy sex abuse scandal). There were many hurt families and some are now being financially compensated for the abuse they suffered. Men find it hard to talk about sex abuse and your DF probably internalised his rage and unleashed it on you and others because you could not fight back. I am sure your anger will eventually turn to pity when you think about him but you will be in a much better place then. My DM is Catholic and I think her religion was very damaging in many ways. As our DF was not a Catholic, we had more balance. My DM thinks her high blood pressure is divine intervention for something she did. She has never worked out what that something is mind! I could tell her a few things. But she is of that generation that would not say boo to a priest and should you say the priest abused you she would not hear of it. I do wonder whether my DM suffered any abuse in that area but she is a closed book and will take her secrets to her grave. BTW I've had no contact for 81/2 years.

Meant your DF in second sentence.

OSAHM - you have no idea how good it is to hear someone else say that. My family seems to think it is all ok, and acceptable and that we should all forgive and forget. I haven't been able to talk with them about it for 10 years. I'm told it was never as bad as I thought, or in the case of my mother going for my SIL with a carving knife, they deny it ever happened (including eventually my brother, even though I will never forget the sound of his voice when he phoned to tell me what had happened)

I think some people just can't understand how it feels to live in a toxic atmosphere like that, when you're meant to be growing up protected and that can be hard. Others thing it must have been bad but can't understand how it affects me, particularly when I have been so good at putting on a face for the world for the last ten years. Learning to put the mask down, but not be overwhelmed with pity for myself is really hard. The temptation to write myself off as a mess is huge right now

MH, have only had time for a quick skim through recent posts but when you described your childhood, you also described mine. It seems weird to say I had the happiest time of my life when out with friends and the freedom of the summer holidays like you said, being out and away from home. My parents never stopped me from going out, had no clue where I was, and no doubt my dad never gave me a second thought when i wasn't at home and my mother was probably just glad to have me out the way as I'm sure any demands from me made her feel uncomfortable as she couldn't meet them and she wanted to focus her attention solely on my sisters.

exotic traveller, wow! do you get on with your sisters now?

Calvados, thanks for your comments, I know the catholic church issues are not good, I know that being catholic can cause a lot of damage to a lot of people, actually I think it saved me, showed me to turn other cheek, forgive, pray for people that hurt you etc... praying at times of stress were such a life saver for me many a time! don't go to church much though!

I konw a lot of my parents family history, and both had parents that were orphaned by one or both parents early in life and had to take on parental responsibility for sibings, it is like a historic "I had no childhood so you damm well are not going to have one either, I did it so you will!" type thing, it was soemthing that long before I knew fully waht had gone on that I cut through, it was just the stress and strain of the acromonious divorce that damged me as a parent, I had always been a walk over anyways but was ticking along ok I read so many parenting manuals etc... I was too cotton wool if anything to my kids! then the ex left and wanted to destroy me...

MH, it's hard to say if I get on with my sisters now as I don't see them! I have cut out all the toxic people in my life including my sisters. It was the only way I could have ever recovered and healed from the enormous hurt they have caused me. Maybe one day I might get back in touch with them. For the time being I know it is best for me to have no contact with them.

At the moment I am struggling with my relationship with DH. Unsurprisingly he has been deeply affected by the toxicity of my family and some of their rubbish has inevitably spilled out over the years, onto him, via me. As well as this I strongly believe he has his own issues caused by his highly damaged and toxic mother.

I really think he and 'us' would greatly benefit if he saw a therapist who was experienced in counselling the partners of adult survivors of childhood abuse. We can both see that a lot of the past problems in our relationship were caused by my family issues and we both want to put that chapter behind us and move on and start afresh. But it is proving impossible because DH is still deeply affected by the past events in our relationship and even though I know he wants to put it behind him, I can see it is impossible for him. I can see that he can't just forget it and move on just like I couldn't forget my childhood issues and put them in the past and just move on, even though I really wanted to do that. Before I could put it behind me I needed to work through it and process it before I could let go of it. I think DH needs to do the same in relation to the history of our relationship, during which he was abused by me. It seems obvious now that all the times I got angry at him and only afterwards realised he was just a trigger, all the times I didn't see DH but saw my dad instead, are bound to have affected and wounded him. And he needs to mend and heal from the abuse and neglect I inflicted on him,

Hopefully then he will be able to truly let go of the past hurts and we will be able to move forward with a clean slate. I think there are books aimed at the partners of survivors so perhaps that would be a good starting point for dealing with this.

exotic traveller, so sorry to hear things difficult with your oh, what are you going to do about the therapist?

sorry to hear that you are still not able to see your family, I do wonder if I ever will again, hey ho, onwards and upwards x

MH, thanks. I am going to contact a charity nearby that helps adult survivors of child abuse and hopefully they might be able to help DH or point us in the right direction. And there are books for partners of survivors, I bought one a while ago but never read it or gave it to DH. Am going to find it and give it to him today. I feel positive. Once we know what the problem is we are halfway there to solving it.

Don't be sorry that I am choosing to no longer see my parents or sisters because I'm not. It's the best thing I ever did and I have no regrets. It doesn't mean I have no family because I do. My family (apart from DH and DC's) now consists of people with whom I don't share any DNA, but with whom I have a genuine,caring, reciprocal relationship.

Hi, I am wondering if I can start posting on here again? I have had a lot to deal with recently with certain events and realisations and tbh I am really struggling.
I dont feel I have anywhere to go other than here where I can be honest and vent a little.
I thought I 'should' be able to move on from the thread, but now (after recent events) Im not sure I am ready at all.
Would anyone mind, only I feel bad coming back in and posting what has been happening straight off without checking in first.

TRS, of course you can. The thread is here for everyone who needs is whenever they need it. This 'stuff' is like that, you can be fine for ages, and then suddenly you get 'triggered' and another layer comes up for you to deal with.

TRS feel free to vent away. So glad I did.
Exotic, it really is the people who reciprocate your love that matter. I feel the same and feel stronger after 81/2 years of not seeing my DM and DS but then the guilt/pain hits you and you feel awful, but, you just have to work through it until you are back on track. Not so painful now but still a long way to go. Though I did not experience physical beatings, for which I am grateful, some words my DM used against me still sting. I can remember the silences even more. The stony face and silences caused me so much damage as I was forever trying to remember what I had said or done. I remembered at the weekend that when I was about 7 years, I fell off a swing and fractured my elbow. My DF took me home and told my DM he was going to take me to the hospital for an Xray as I was crying with pain. My DM made such a fuss and was angry with me and my DF and didn't want him to take me. He did, thank God, and when I came home with my elbow all bandaged and in a sling, my DM wouldn't talk to me. I remember feeling so bad, because all I wanted was a hug, what did I do so wrong?
Why was she so angry with my DF? Are these all NPD traits? Does anyone have any stories like this? My mum prided her self that my sister and I never had sick days off from school. Truth is we went to school sick or not. I know it was character building but I am thinking alot now about how DM dealt with us if we were ill. Furthermore, I went to my GP to see my medical record for my Life Insurance Company and was horrified to see there was nothing of any significance to be mentioned apart from one thing. I was admitted to hospital as a 10 month old for swallowing some detergent from a bucket my DM was using to mop the floor. I don't want to read too much in to it but why was I left near a bucket with detergent? This is like my DM leaving my little son in the park all over again.

Calvados there is a npd thread, not sure if you post on there, also x

Wow not one day off school, not a bad thing, but surley at least once you had flu/ tonsilitis/ mumps/measels/chickenpox/ vomiting or diorhea?

As for the ten month old thing, when my dd was about that age, I put down some ant powder by the back door on the outside, when I turned my back to put the powder away in locked cupboard, my dd had quickly crawled over and put her fingers into it and was putting it in her mouth as soon as that! Maybe the bleech in the bucket was her cleaning the floor and you were closer than she thought and you put your face in etc, it is easily done, when children are young and you are rushing around trying to do everything, it seems it was a one off event, I think from what you say it was the fact that there seemed to be no care at all for any illness you had throughout childhood more than the bucket incident!

Have got loads I need to be getting on with at home but just can't focus. I have been triggered a lot by various things recently, need to get it out of my system I think.

I think DH and I have had a real bneakthrough. Realising that I have been dumping some of my rubbish onto him has been a lightbulb moment. He has been trying very hard to not bear any grudges or resentment towards me for the abusive way I have treated him over the years but it was impossible and I could always sense anger and bitterness and resentment in him which is a natural and normal reaction to being treated badly and unfairly. Intellectually he knows it was not my fault for treating him badly, it was because of my parents/family, but emotionally his body still feels the pain and anger and I can sense it and it makes me wary and distant towards him which in turn makes him feel insecure about my feelings towards him. We were in a negative spiral or vicious circle but I think we are now in a position to stop it as we have worked out what was going on. Once again, awareness is the key to stopping bad patterns of behaviour. I can see how it applies to all my relationships, not just between me and the DC's.

Calvados I can relate so much to what you have said, about how your parents behaved when you were ill as a child. My parents were just like yours, you said "My mum prided her self that my sister and I never had sick days off from school." My dad was always boasting about how nobody in our family was ever ill or needed to go to the doctor. What rubbish! I remember clearly being taken to the doctor as a child with various typical childhood illnesses. Perhaps he meant that none of us had ever had anything particularly serious or life threatening which is partially true. But what got to me was that he had clearly forgotten/ignored/dismissed my debilitating, depressing, and disabling chronic condition ie my eczema (which is infinately better these days) which I had had to a greater or lesser degree since I was about 2. I remember when he said it I was close by and as usual I didn't say anything but I looked at him and I remember then he did mumble something about my eczema being the one illness within the family or something like that. He clearly had no idea at all how serious the condition was for me to the point where I was once contemplating suidice because it was so bad. I am sure when Spiky in one of her posts also dismissed and diminished the impact of my eczema on me as not that bad she triggered feelings from my childhood of neither of my parents ever realising just how bad my eczema was making me feel when it should have been glaringly obvious to them that the condition, in the way it was affecting me, would have caused a huge amount of stress and depression. It was bad enough when Spiky dismissed my feelings but a million times worse when my own parents dismissed my feelings wrt this condition. Yet another confirmation for me, not that I need it, that I did absolutely the right thing by walking away from my parents and never looking back.

I was looking for a cardigan this morning and couldn't find it anywhere. I looked everywhere and it seems to have just disappeared which I know is not possible. So then I had this awful thought that my cleaner might have taken it. But that seems impossible too as she is just such a lovely girl who has been with us for years, and I simply cannot imagine that she would do such thing. But the whole incident triggered something from my childhood. I had a skirt that I always got lots of compliments on and fitted me really well and just looked good. One day that skirt seemed to disappear into thin air. I looked everywhere for it and simply couldn't find it. (This is when I was still living at home). Eventually I gave up looking for it and forgot about it, although whilst searching I remember asking my sisters if they had seen it. Many, many years later, I was at my parents houese (before I cut ties with them) and they were clearing out my youngest sister's room some years after she had moved out. And lo and behold I found my skirt, at the back on one of her cupboards, scrunched up into a ball. She must have taken it because perhaps she was jealous of how nice it looked on me. And she couldn't wear it herself as of course I would have seen her, but she stopped me from wearing it. What a selfish, nasty and mean thing to do, and we were all adults at this time, not children anymore (sadly still living at home). What gets me about the whole thing is not that she took my skirt probably out of jealousy and spite but that throughout the whole saga about me cutting ties with our parents, she has had a holier than thou attitude, in fact she has had that attitude for many years, seeing herself as some sort of angel who never puts a foot wrong and casting judgment on me and my other sister from up high on her pedestal where she has been placed by our parents and herself. When in fact the skirt incident is just one of many things I could point to that show she is just as flawed and imperfect as the rest of us. But she herself simply cannot bear to really look at herself and see the truth. She can only see herself as perfect and therefore by logic, everybody else around must be imperfect as all the things that go wrong in life cannot be her fault, as she is perfect, and so they must be the fault of others.

Realising this has somehow helped me understand why she has cut me out when I have done nothing wrong. She cannot bear to even contemplate the possibility that she (and our parents who have given her her Miss Perfect title) is flawed, which is why I have cut them out. So she herself has cut me out, and she no doubt has convinced herself that I am in the wrong, in order to maintain her perfect self image.

She must blame me and she must believe her own lies about me, otherwise her world will fall apart as it is constructed at the moment. She doesn't know that if her world does fall apart and she faces up to the flaws in herself and our parents, that it does not mean her world is destroyed forever. She does not know that her world can be re-built, but this time with a solid foundation made up of the truth about our family.

It is such a relief for me to have worked this out about her. As I was feeling a lot of tension about the unfairness of being cut out by my youngest sister when I had done nothing wrong. I can see now she has to cut me out, it's the only way in her mind that her world can go round. It sounds awful I know, but I feel better now for seeing that our family dysfunction has affected my youngest sister. She has been affected in a very different way to me, but nevertheless she has been affected. I was feeling very angry and upset at the thought that only I had been so badly damaged by our parents, the unfairness of it all was eating away at me. And I know many of you told me that all 3 of us would have been affected, even my youngest sister, the 'golden child' but until I could see it for myself, my perception of myself being unfairly and singularly affected by it all was really bothering me.

Just one more thing before i go. I was triggered yesterday by DD phoning one of her friends. When she phoned her she found out that another of her friends was at the first friend's house. She didn't seem at all upset by this (being left out/not invited to first friend's house along with other friend), but I felt very upset. I knew immediately that I had been triggered, all the feelings of being left out and finding out after the event that my sisters had gone somewhere together or done something together without ever asking me along too, were triggered.

For the first time I made an almost immediate connection between the event involving DD's phone call and realising that I had been triggered. Usually a triggering event would happen, but I would only realise I had been triggered some time later ie hours or even days later. But yesterday, I was triggered two times about two different things (one with DH) and I immediately realised I had been triggered. This seems like a huge step forward for me. I had begun to start recognising when I had been triggered but it would take me quite a while to work it all out. Yesterday I noticed it immediately and almost immediately made the connection between the present day events and which bit of my past was being triggered.

It makes me hopeful that one day it might become a lot more 'natural'. I will realise instantly I am being triggered and the 'processing' of the triggered memories and emotions will happen almost immediately and so take up a lot less of my time and energy. Usually I get triggered but don't realise it straightaway and then my mind seems to work on recovering the memeory/feelings that have been triggered and then processes them. The whole thing can sometimes take days and during the whole thing my energy levels drop and I feel depressed and unable to focus on anything properly. It would be amazing if it could all happen much more quickly and almost 'automatically', perhaps a bit closer to how a person from a 'functional' family would think and feel. I can but hope.

exotic you have done an amazing job emotionally well done!

I am in the pits, pmt is taking hold with the black dog which it does monthly, I am back to all the insecurites and bad thoughts etc.... i know it won't last long, if it was not for the fact that the rest of the month i was fine I would ask the gp for some meds, thing is when I was on meds before for the 25 days of the month that are ok, you loose them to a platau of emotion and I would rather endure the bad few days for the good days.... one day I hope someone will invent three day anti depressants for pmt! in the mean time I will do all I can to avoid the dark deep pit, of bad outlooks, self hate, insecurity and feeling hopeless!!! life will be back to normal soon, I keep telling myself that x

MH, thank you. I seem to be having a flood of realisations at the moment. I have realised that the thing with my friend recently was also a trigger. When she burst my happy bubble by being negative about a holiday I had booked, she triggered memories of when my middle sister used to do exactly the same thing. I would be all excited and happy about something and she would often say something completely negative to me and completely burst my bubble and upset me as well. I can see now that she was jealous and I'm sure my friend is a bit jealous as well about my holiday.

I wonder sometimes what do I do with this information now that I can access it? ie now that I know my sister and friend would say negative things to me out of perhaps a bit of spite and jealousy because of their own insecurities. What do I do with this knowledge?

MH, am sorry you have bad pmt. I get it too, to the point where I feel suicidal and hopeless, that there is nothing good about my life. Have only recently realised that this was the pmt talking and not my real feelings which is a relief. But I think the pmt intensifies existing feelings, rather than 'creating' feelings that didn't exist before. It's horrible though, not only for me, but for everyone around me whilst I have pmt. It has definately got worse as I've got older. Have read that certain supplements and herbs (magnesium ok and agnus cactus)can help so am going to look into those.

Why does the thought of my MIL being in my house, even when I'm not going to be there, stress me out so much? I am completely stressed out at the thought of her coming here (she's coming tomorrow) whilst I am away for a few days.

I can just imagine her criticising everything in my absence, the house, the kids, the state of everything (it is a bit of a mess) etc etc. I have been trying to tell myself all day that she is not worth stressing about but I can't help it. I would feel better if I knew DH would put her in her place on my behalf but am not at all sure that he would do that.

She is such a short sighted, ignorant, narrow minded woman, everything must be done her way and if it's not in her eyes you fall short. She has no idea that there is more than one way of doing something and that everyone is different. There is no such thing as different in her world, different to her just means wrong or inferior.

She is probably triggering me, haven't figured out how yet.

She doesn't/can't understand that I am here on my own trying to look after both DC's and the house with no help or support and that I am doing this with the added burden of coping with my family issues and the associated painful and draining emotions. It is such bad luck that I not only have toxic parents but also toxic parents in law. It would have been so nice if I had a nice, caring set of parents in law and they do exist as I have read threads about them. Oh well. It was not to be. I suppose it could have been worse, but I am not quite sure how at the moment,

thankyou Exotic and calvados.

I think it has been a combination of different things triggering me. The crux of it is my relationship with ds has gotten really bad 'again'. I just feel frustrated and annoyed with him constantly. At the same time I feel disapointed with myself and petrified I am letting ds down and in danger of damaging him.
I know it isn't his fault and that it is my responsibility ultimately to either change the way I interact with him or react to him.
There are days recently that knowing this just isnt enough though.

Another issue has been my in-laws, as BIL has done something which could be percieved as underhand wrt to DH and his business. This has made me feel incredibly upset and at a low ebb. I cant help feeling that if I had had a strong foundation provided by a loving stable upbringing I wouldnt feel quite as thrown by this latest turn of events. I would know or trust that come what may whatever happens to me now as an adult, there 'were' people I could still depend on and that love/d me unconditionally. People I think the word is a 'mother' that always had my best interests at heart. That I could ultimately trust.
But I do not have that and so when things like this happen I feel huge sense of anxiety and panic. it is an over-reaction really, but the feeling is of not being safe 'ever' from 'anyone'. And, of course this 'for me' is partially true. There is no-one I can have total trust and dependence upon. That time has passed.
In fact instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt when stuff like this happens I am more inclined to anticipate or expect bad behaviour and I think this is because my trust was broken at such a young age by the people I should have been able to rely on. I never had the holy grail of unconditional love and I wonder if it is because of this that I am less equipped as an adult to deal with these difficulties which I am sure most people encounter in every day life.

It has also struck me recently that my father was/is either a functioning alchoholic or a heavy drinker at best. How do you know the difference?
He has been here to stay recently which is why I started to question things.
Growing up he could never get home because he had to go to the pub first, he would go there on his own if he had to. All his friends are either alchaholics or extremely heavy drinkers. He has driven under the influence including when we were in the car. In fact this was the norm for us.
I think now looking back, his rages and violent outbursts probably were as a result of his drinking. I watched him once after an argument drink a whole bottle of vodka and then lock himself in the bathroom where he lay on the floor and banged his head against the door .
The thing that bothers me the most is that somehow this beahviour was so normalised for me that I had no clue. For forty years I thought that is just what people/dads...men of a certain age do. How could I not know?
Maybe it is very significant that I ended up married to a man who doesnt touch alchohol.

Realsmith, unconditional love is a wonderful thing isn't it? As a child, teenager you can mess up big time, scream and shout and say the wrong thing, but that steadfast safety net of parents' unconditional love allows you to bounce back to base before you venture out again to test the waters somewhat wiser and charged with more self esteem. As an adult, that unconditional love is a sounding board where you can test your views, share your politics, your hates, fears,loves etc about absolutely anything and you know that even if your parents disagree with you that you are still a valued human being who has formulated their own opinions and has the confidence and self esteem to make them known. Children who don't have that start in life and continued support find it hard to be confident in their words and actions because they need first to get approval, of course, it doesnt come from those we need it from most. Those lucky enough to have that special teacher or relative when the parents are inadequate emotionally fare better in life. This leads me to accept that most of us on this thread have esteem issues. Feeling good about oneself is a work in progress for those who were not raised with unconditional love. Doubts always niggle away and affect how we interact with our DHs and DCs. Working to raise self esteem is imo an essential building block before any other work can be done. This is the area that I am going to concentrate on. Everything else follows on from this. Maybe in time, nothing but nothing can hurt you anymore if you feel good about yourself. Perhaps this is why others find it easier to forgive those who have hurt them or burst their bubble whereas someone else would feed off the hate and self loathing and will be forever chained to their past. I am going to bed on that note. I dreamt that I got violent the other night. I must be processing a lot of anger. The gym is good for me, I am too shattered to expend anymore mental energy.

"feeling good about oneself is a work in progress for those who were not raised with unconditional love"

Calvados this is so true, and the 'niggling doubts' that plague me in all my ineractions with people and decisions I make.

This is what I am trying to work on at the moment. My focus has moved away from my adoptive parents and my relationship with them, to my realationship with myself. They are never going to change and I am never going to have a wonderful relationship with them, I accept that now.

But I will not accept that I will never have a good relationship with myself. Now, more than ever, I am determined to love myself more and start living my life the way I deserve to. I am starting to think about ways in which I can do something for myself, outside of motherhood e.g. further studying or a change of career. Before I was ill, I had started going to the gym and looking after myself more. I will get that back though.

I am finding out who I really am (because for years I tried to be the cardboard cut out my adoptive father saw) with all my good and bad bits, and loving myself unconditionally. I am getting better and I am forgiving myself for past mistakes.

And you know despite my recent set back (have been feeling low due to a combination of illnesses and PMT) I am building a more solid foundation of self worth and confidence. Each tough stage that hits me, I do get through it and I learn from it. And the more I build up my self esteem, the less angry I feel at my adoptive parents. I haven't forgiven them (and probably never will) but I can see how damaged they are and I care less about their opinions and their lives in general. I don't need them in order to have a happy and fulfilling life. Yes there will always be a gap where that mother freely giving unconditional love should be, but it is a gap that can be filled just enough to allow me to step over and move on when needed. It is not a huge chasm that I must fall down everytime the going gets tough.

Roseability, you sound much stronger today. I know from my own experience that not seeing my DM and DS for over 8 years has proved a point, that I don't need them. I have come a long way since then and I think this stage of no contact is vital especially if you and your family are to survive all that poison. I think what is so sad is that once you have gone so long without contact you realise that deep down you don't want to get back in touch, in my case anyway. I can honestly say, if I did get in touch, not a single blasted thing would change. And that is enough for me to know that I am better off the way I am. Accepting that fact has been peaceful in itself. The litmus test was when my DS2 was about 16 he went off the rails and we found it hard to cope with his teenage rebellion. It was hard but I hung on in there and he knows that we love him regardless and that he can express himself and come back to us. We may not agree with their actions and disapprove but the love must always be greater than the disapproval. That is unconditional love! My DM wouldn't know what that was if it bounced on her head. I also try not to throw past disagreements in my DS2's face. When I do, I hate myself as that is what my DM would do,so I think twice now and bite my lip. They fail to realise that I was a child. Children make mistakes, that is allowed, it's not as if you've committed a bloody murder!
I bought myself a lovely new lipstick today from Shiseido and got complimented on the way home - it made me smile and I gave a compliment back. My DM would have just said the colour didn't suit me or something similar so that I wouldn't feel good. Now, therein lies the difference between me and her. Had I a daughter, I would tell her daily that she was beautiful in my eyes and suggest we go shopping together. Do you know my DM has never taken me on a girly shopping trip to buy makeup and clothes. What a waste, as a result, if I ever have a DIL, I will do my best to build a good relationship with her. I will try to make up for lost time. Maybe, I am a better person for not having that with my DM.

I am reading your posts guys and reading your experiences is really helpfull to me x

I had a good day to day, then something happened at the end that upset me, it was not birth family realted, but someone reminded me of something bad that happened with ex hubby and I am trying to work out what they meant by it, it seemed like they meant well but I have not had that happen for such a long time without there being a hidden agenda I just feel taken aback really by it all, and rather than letting it go as I would normally and think ah they mean well, I am looking for the hidden meaning in it! I almost wish I was back to having closed eyes to the bad in the world, then I thought all people were good and I had gotten it all wrong, they did not mean any harm, rather than this always looking for hidden agenda's in people!

I am also flirting with the idea of maybe on day getting back in touch with birth family when I feel stronger, I feel stronger each week and know I am not ready just yet, but I am realising that the most abusive relationship the one with the exh, I and he are oddly reconnecting and working through testing each others boundaries, and I feel for the children's sake it is best that I work on some sort of relationship with him, and take one step at a time that suits my needs, as one pain in my life is the children's dad rejecting them, and the pain it is causing the three of us although not as bad is still an open wound, I don't think will ever heal properly as long as they are young children!

right going to remember all the nice things that happened today and the laugh I had with good people earlier on today lol x

I just want to add, that I have no interest in getting back with exh, I just want to be on a friendly basis for the sake of the children, I hate the fact that he has always treated like like an enemy since we split!

Calvados you have hit the nail on the head. Yes, it has a lot to do with lack of self esteem. I did feel as though I was getting better but recently I have begun again to be riddled with self doubt. I constantly kick my instincts to the kerb and 'go along' with things Im not happy with in order 'to be liked' or to please people. If I had the confidence or the courage in my own convictions BIL and SIL would not have got close enough to cause this latest episode.
I have always felt them to be emotionally quite 'dangerous'. I do feel a level of toxicity from them. To this end any relationship with them has almost taken me back to a time where things would happen because of skewed perceptions and interactions.
Someone would 'do' something 'I' would become scapegoated for it and everyone would suddenly withdraw from me, scream at me, either way the blame would fall to me somehow.
Having people surrounding you like that do this does not help self esteem, it diminishes it.
It is hard enough when there has been a lifetime habit of self reproach and self loathing, a habit borne out of believing that all such family 'blow ups' were somehow my fault.
So it is habitual for me and sometimes I feel perhaps that it is also my comfort zone to veer back to what I know. The same way as I have kicked my habit of stuffing my face with food to fill the hole in me, but I still have slip ups and fall back because it's habitual and so it feels comfortable.
Like you say rose, tis 'a work in progress indeed..'
I dont think seeing my father has helped much at all. I fell straight back into the habit of needing his approval. Drinking with him even though I didnt really want to. Told him something I shouldnt have.
AS you say Calvados somethimes it just is the right thing to have no contact. When it comes to my mother, after 2 and a bit years, like u I feel nothing. At first there was guilt (so much guilt) then anger, then extreme sorrow and sadness. But I now feel indifferent toward her, as though she is just a woman I once called 'mother'. That is sad in itself. For whatever reason I am unavle to detach myself from my father in the same way.

The question is; when is enough, enough wrt extended family. I do feel as though I just dont want to be around BIL and SIL at all anymore. But am I demonising them? Seeing them as black instead of white or shades of grey.
It isnt because of the latest incident alone. It is because of many things that have happened which make me feel as though they are quite similar to my own family. They seem to blow up over the smallest issues, are incapable of talking anything through afterwards. It's as though they have this sense of entitlement that only 'their' needs and wants matter.
I think underneath it all they probably both do have esteem issues too. Lord knows SIL has had an upbringing that is sadly difficult to say the least. Not that she acknowledges this. That however is not my problem. I just dont want to be surrounded by these kind of people anymore.
I just want both myself and DH to feel we are surrounded by people who respect us and conversley we respect them.