'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

Hello. It's been ages since I've been on this thread. Hope everyone ok?

Nobody been here for ages - maybe everyone is feeling better and feeling less need to post here?

I'm just hormonally moody today I think, but a thought struck me earlier:

I have it in my head that all rejection is wrong and bad, but I thought maybe some rejection is wrong and some is ok. What has brought this on is guilt about feeling that something I have done recently is rejecting.

I feel that being rejected by your parents is wrong but maybe I shouldn't be feeling that because I feel so strongly about this, that all rejection is wrong. Maybe if someone is treating you in a way you don't want to be treated, especially if it isn't someone who is family, it is healthy to reject them? (if you have tried to sort it out but it looks like the situation is not going to change).

Would carrying on in a situation where someone could upset you again, just because you don't want to upset them by rejecting them, be unhealthy because you are making their feelings more important than your own? Should one not value one's own feelings and protect them?

My father married my stepmother when I was 7 after my mother died. Pretty soon afterwards she started accusing me of all sorts of weird things-namely letting "people" into the house when she wasnt looking (never got to the bottom of who these 'people' were.

On a daily basis she accused me of leaving 'hints' around the house for her which supposedly signified things i.e if I left the top off the toothpaste it meant that I was trying to tell her that she didn't brush her teeth enough or if I moved an object from it's place it meant that I was acting under instructions from "other people" in order to...I don't know-it was all a bit weird and crazy. She used to constantly scream at me and call me a liar and a brat and I wasnt aloud to leave the house until I had given an explaination for "things" I was supposed to have done-(which were all paranoid and made no sense). I never knew what I was supposed to say or apologise for.

She accused me of flirting with my father and used to throw her wedding ring at me calling me a slut. Nothing untoward went on between my father and I but from that point onwards he stopped hugging me or showing me any sort of affection.

Frequently I would come home from school to find she had packed a suitcase and left it on the doorstep. She used to tell me to "fuck off back to the childrens home". I'd never been in a childrens home but I was adopted when I was 3months old so hence the reference.

Worse that being screamed at was being ignored or when she was sulking at me. That was very frightening as I didn't know what I had done. My mantra used to be "sorry, sorry, sorry" sometimes she'd ask what I was sorry for and I didn't know the right answer so then i'd get a torrent of abuse about being "sly and devious".

She isolated me from my wider family-told them I had emotional problems, told them I was a liar/a theif/mentally ill. After a few years of this she was sectioned and afterwards a CPN used to come to the house to see her. She told everyone that the CPN was for me and I was seeing a psychiatrist. She was very plausible.

Her behaviour was so extreme that the adults I told didn't believe me-or it was frequently put down to the 'normal' stepmother/stepdaughter problems. This was the hardest part of it for me-the not being believed.

When I was 12 she started to get physical, dragging me around by my hair or pushing me as she went past. After one argument she tried to throw me backwards down the stairs and then followed me to the kitchen and began screaming in my face again about things I was supposed to have done which didnt make any sense. I don't know why that day was different but I punched her full on in the face and gave her a black eye. That only succeeded in giving her a golden opportunity to tell everyone what I had 'done' to her and she loved the attention whilst I was painted as the hell child.

When I was 14 she gave birth to my half brother. I doted on him. I took over a large part of his care as she refused to pick him up for the first 6 months of his life. Later when I moved out to go to university and he was older she spun him a whole alternative story about me. She told him that I was jealous of him and that I was spoilt and that I had never wanted him to be born. She also made a massive deal about the black eye incident. The relationship between my brother is not close to this day.

I feel numb and tired and I gave up trying to explain about all of this to RL people a long time ago.

In a nutshell, she's nuts.

Of course she denies any of this happened

Victoria I'm totally at how your stepmother treated you. Do you have anything to do with them anymore? If so how is it?

OSAHM I'm only just beginning to try and put my own feelings before other peoples. It's hard to change the habit of a lifetime though and I feel like I'm being selfish and self centred if I put myself before others.
Yes, one should value one's own feelings but sometimes it is easier said than done.

Victoria, I just read what you wrote about your stepmother.
Its horrible, it must have been really confusing and scary for you especially as a child. I hope you have been able to move forward in your life. Are you still in contact with your father?

Victoria, your story is really shocking and very sad. I'm so sorry you had to go through so much! The woman is an utter fruitcake! (as well as being a fcking btch - sorry, but some of the things she said/did I just could never forgive!) Well she was diagnosed medically as one as well wasn't she! Did your Dad not 'notice' what she was like and do something about it?

Why does your brother believe her about what you were like when she is so obviously mental?

You give the impression of being a nice and normal sort of person and I think that is a massive achievement after the start you had!

I hope you are getting the good things you deserve in life now. Do you feel free of the bad people from the past? Do you still have contact?

Mampam/Dominique/SAHM: Yes I still have contact with them. She is still married to my father, however about 10yrs ago (when I was in my mid 20's) they finally took her off the drug she was on (Stelazine) and put her on some new antipyschotic drug-things calmed down a little since then and she no longer has such extreme paranoid attacks. Even without the paranoid stuff I still believe she has an underlying personality disorder as she fits the criteria for BPD.

After I had my daughter I began to get incredibly angry with my father and I still am as I now realise that he really didnt make much effort to protect me. I spent my whole childhood feeling 'responsible' for him and trying to make things ok for him. He really put himself and her before my wellbeing and I find that difficult to comprehend.

As for my half brother-he can only remember one incident of her paranoid rages (the last one which happened when he was roughly 12yrs old.) He has never been a target of hers (thankfully). HOwever he has been exposed to some weird shit in that house and he is not a very emotionally healthy lad now. It's normalised for him though-he doesn't know any different. I think he'll only realise when he's much older. I hope he'll be less mistrustful of me then

OrdinarySAHM: I don't know how normal I am lol. I have weak points. I don't trust people easily and I am quite an anxious person. I also have a speech hesitancy which comes and goes which I think is connected to having to bottle everything up and constantly monitor what I say/do.

On the positive it's helped me in my job where I work with very aggressive and dangerous people. I am brill at calming down angry folk and i'm the only person in my work environment who's never been physically assaulted. Money can't buy that sort of education

I know what you mean, Victoria! In my misspent youth, I had a job as a bouncer at a very rough nightclub! Something about a willowy 19-year-old girl, who wasn't afraid of dangerous blokes, made me far more effective than the big guys. I had my Dad to thank for that

Thanks to his 'training' I've also got myself out of all kinds of threatening situations, where a more - umm, ordinary woman would have been robbed, raped and worse. Mind you, a more ordinary woman probably would have cared enough about her own safety to avoid those situations in the first place. Oh, well.

OSAHM, I hope you're doing well with your rethink about rejection It is a tricky issue for everybody, I think, especially those of us who learned, early on, to accept the unacceptable. A potential upside of that, though, is that people who have to work it through carefully - as you're doing - are more likely to accept & reject reasonably and rationally. Others might spend their whole lives operating with knee-jerk reactions, never realising the difficulties their reactions may cause.

OSAHM yes, I think if you have realised you have a negative relationship or friendship you don't have to remain in it. Rejection can be the right thing.
I am absolutely shocked by a female friend who put up with a nightmare 'best' friend because she feel responsible for talking them out of their attempted suicides, and also takes a lot of abuse from that very person she's helping. She has finally after 10 years broken the friendship because the girl was demanding so much from her whilst refusing to see things from her friend's POV.
I have stopped a friendship in the making for much less. A girl who was clearly needy, depressed, and possibly looking for free childcare is no longer my friend because she would act so wildly and put me in rediculous and embarrassing situations. I just think she needs to sort herself out, and I owe her nothing.

Maybe my upbringing means I'm not well trained in the art of friendship. Maybe I'm now unreasonable but I never act rudely to strangers or people I want to be friends with, and I don't want to put up with a 'friend' who expects too much despite bad behaviour towards me. Maybe I need to improve the way I relate to friends, because I usually have very intense periods of friendship, and then find that I have to withdraw, and disentangle myself from them before I get lost.

Grace, that thing about keeping safe in risky situaions rings a bell. I was talking to my therapist about this recently - when I was in my late teens/early twenties I lived a bit of a Trainspotting existence. Just without the heroin, but every other drug and vice was OK. I used to regularly walk home through some of the rougher parts of Glasgow at four in the morning on my own in clubbing gear.

I never, ever got attacked, threatened or raped. But I was genuinely fearless. When you care so little for yourself, you have very little to lose so these situations just don't seem as risky. We were a close knit group of friends and our defining feature was a self-destructive streak. Being with people like that normalises what would shock other people, but even in that setting I was still the fuck up.

Weird. I'd be terrified if a 19 year old girl told me she was doing those sorts of things now. I'd feel sorry for her being such a lost soul.

Queen-weird-I was EXACTLY the same

I have a niece who's living the same life now, I'm sad to say. I know she's having an exciting time - we DID have a lot of laughs, didn't we, fellow boundary-pushers? - but I also know she doesn't understand why others feel provoked by her beauty, why they use her or what keeps her on the move. She is better supported than I was, so I have hopes that she'll soon gain the sense of security she should always have enjoyed.

Hi everyone

I've been casually reading mumsnet for a few weeks now, but I've only been inspired to actually post after stumbling on this thread. Some of the stories here have made me very tearful, partly because they're so close to my own history.

VictoriaScrumptious' experiences are very, very similar to my own, but with the genders reversed. My father left my mother when I was 6 months old, and has never really bothered to stay in touch since. My mother remarried when I as 5, and my stepfather resented me from day one. He was a very emotionally abusive man and my self-esteem has never recovered from his constant disapproval. To this day I cannot handle conflict of any kind. I have often wondered why my mother never wondered why I spent all the time I could outside of the house. He never sexually abused me, or hit me that much, so for a long time I refused to even believe that there was any kind of abuse there. After all, I turned out all right, didn't I? University, good job, healthy, and all that (not too many stately homes though ).

But there was abuse. If you tell a 5 year old that they're stupid every day of their life, that's abuse. I am still having to deal with the burning anger caused by the way he treated me now, on top of wondering why my father wanted nothing to do with me. It's affected every relationship I've had. Why did my mother do nothing? Why did she turn a blind eye? That's when you start to believe it is your fault, and you doubt yourself. And then you get angry with that parent for not protecting you, like victoriascrumptious is.

I'm a 30 year old man and I have finally found some acceptance that what happened to me wasn'tmyfault and was wrong, on a website for mums. I am not alone in feeling like this. I almost feel like I'm intruding, but I had to share this somewhere because no-one in RL seems to take this sort of thing seriously - that b*stard turns on the charm for just about everybody else. Salvation comes in strange places, eh?

rustinpeace It doesn't matter that you're not a mum you are more than welcome on this thread. I started off on this thread by writing sort of on behalf of my DH about his parents. He has read all of the posts and it has certainly helped him although he has never posted himself (his typing is slow, it would take hours ).

The thing that rings a bell for me in your post is when you say :
"no-one in RL seems to take this sort of thing seriously - that b*stard turns on the charm for just about everybody else".

I think you'll find many people on this thread feel the same, I certainly do about my own mother. She seems to have two personalities, the one that I, my stepdad and 2 brothers see and the one that she presents to the wide world and they are totally different, believe me.

I also think that it is Ok to feel angry with the passive parent who just stood by and watched these things happen to you. I may be wrong but aren't they just as much to blame as the abuser is for simply doing nothing. After all, would you stand by and let this kind of thing happen to your DC's and simply do nothing? I know I wouldn't.

Mampam, you're absolutely right, but it goes beyond that, I couldn't stand by and let it happen to any child, one of my own or not. A few years ago I saw a man yelling at a small child in a supermarket - he was shaking this little boy, yelling in his face - and it all came flooding back. I had a can of beans in my hand (I know, how prosaic) and I had to restrain myself from walking over and smashing it over the back of his head. Cruelty to any child makes me titanically angry, because I was that child and I suppose to some extent I still am.

I am glad your DH has got some peace and help from this thread. Men don't talk about this sort of thing, they bury it, because it runs so counter to our own self-image, and that's when real problems arise. You can't heal until your admit you're injured, as all the brave people on this thread have done. Tell your DH he isn't alone. And the best we can all do, as parents, is to make sure the abuse stops with us and isn't passed on to our children.

Hello all,
I?ve been lurking on this thread for a while now and feel so lucky to have found it. I really would like some advice. I am sorry for barging in on what looks like established friends and support but I really need some help.

I don?t know if I have suffered a toxic childhood as most of the time I feel privileged to have had my parents but maybe the fact that I haven?t talked to my mother or sibling for 9 years means otherwise. I am very confused and sad so please bear with me I don?t know how to start but I know I need help, I feel so much rage at times and I am taken it out on those that I love.

I fell out with my mum over how she dealt with my children at the time. When they were very small 6 and 4, she sent them to the shops on their own which involved crossing a busy road without my permission. She also accused them of rummaging in her private drawers. My mother has always had locked drawers and wardrobes for as long as I can remember. She then left my youngest DS who was 5 at the time in the park on his own and walked home and told us what she had done. My DH went beserk and went to collect him. It feels like she has been trying to cause rows between my DH and I by using the children. I cannot understand her behaviour. My DS1 denied going in her wardrobe and rummaging there and I believed him as he is not one for telling lies. Since then, we have not spoken and she made no attempt to contact me until my eldest turned 21 years and she sent him a letter and some money with a line saying to tell me that she loves me. My sister who has made no attempt to contact me also sent him a card with her new telephone number after 9 years! I don?t know what to make of this. I feel very disappointed in them and don?t want to get in touch as too much has happened. My late father always said my mother was a bizarre woman but I did not understand what he meant by that.

I don?t know how to get this all out of my system as this was just the culmination of many things in my life. I feel so much rage and worry that I am a bad parent for not making amends when my children were small. They tell me that they are not bothered about seeing their grandmother or aunty and feel that they are only getting in touch because they can?t believe I didn?t go crawling back to them and are now nosy and want to resume a relationship so that they can rubbish what I have. My mother has never said sorry for anything. Please please help, I would be so grateful for advice.

Sorry, just a very quick post. Rustinpeace, you are very welcome here.

Calvados, you say you feel priviliged to have had your parents. It's an unusual word to use, can you tell us why you feel this way?

Hello QueenofWhatever

I expect I use the word privilged because I have been brought up to believe that having parents is one (cultural?) and that they have sacrificed everything so that we could have the best. I guess I am in a bit of a head mess as it's only now being away from the stranglehold of my mum that I can actually think and am not afraid to say things about her that normally I would have put down to her 'knowing what's best' and not to dare upset her. I suppose I used to feel so guilty about upsetting her that I had been walking on egg shells for years and now I am internalising it all rather than ranting at her. I have never shouted at her about all the things that have upset me as she would deny it anyway. For instance, my parents sent me and my sister away abroad to live with relatives in my teens (my mum said I would have got pregnant! I wasn't even allowed out!) Our schooling was interrupted and we were virtually housebound there until my parents joined us some 3 years later. I can't forgive them for this. My parents split up after a year in which my mother refused to speak to my father and we were the go betweens as we all lived in the same house. It was awful and my mother has never apologised. We came back without my father and my mum told us to drop our surnames by deed poll and change it to her maiden name. I refused and kept contact with my father whereas my sister changed her name and cut him off for ten years but was happy to grab his money whenever he sent me a cheque! My mum never forgave me for keeping in touch and said I wasn't loyal like my sister. My sister turned nasty about it too. However, when my sister had problems 10 years on I helped reconcile her to her father and got no thanks just her competing to be the apple of his eye. My mum didn't have a problem with her communicating with her dad. I am the one that always got the rough end of the stick and was always told that I was the trouble maker, am aggressive, and not as sociable and loveable as my sister. I know this is untrue but it's only now that I am internally raging about all the injustices. I am very spiritual but am unable to do the 'forgiving' that is the requisite in order to 'move on.' I guess I am on a guilt trip.

Thanks to those who said reassuring things about it's ok to reject friends if they are treating you badly.

Rustinpeace, I'm glad you are here and can get some support because I really do think it is harder for men because of it not being the done thing for men to talk to each other about emotions or admit to anything which might look like weakness. My brother ended up in prison...

Calvados, I am very shocked about your mother leaving your children on their own/sending them out on their own! You were COMPLETELY right to stop them having contact with them.

We've talked/argued about forgiveness on here before, but personally, I don't think I've really forgiven people that did bad things but I still feel like I have moved on. I don't think forgiveness IS a requisite!

You are right Ordinary re forgiveness. But why is it that people who seem to forgive appear to be in a happier place? I like to think I have moved on but why does the past bubble up like an angry spot that needs to be popped? I truly believe that past hurts and anger cause dis-ease later on if not treated. Maybe talking about it on a forum will go a long way to dealing with it all.

It's the first time I have talked about my mum leaving my kids. I thought I was making a fuss but my instincts told me that it was wrong. What if something had happened to them? Funny thing is, she would have been apoplectic if someone had done that with her own kids?! Can't work that one out.

Ordinary, how do you deal with those people who did bad things - do you have limited contact or do you sit with gritted teeth? I have found cutting those people out the only way to deal with it as I can't bear to be near them. I found that this is what I do now with friends that let me down or show an unattractive side to their personalities that I can't deal with. Is this the easy way out and am I isolating myself as a result of past experiences? I feel so sad when I hear people talking about how close they are to their mums, my only solace is that my DS girlfriend told me that my DS always talks about me and loves me to bits! I find that as a result of crap relationship with my own mum, maybe I have tried extra hard with my own. My mum's last words to me after our argument were ....'you better hold on to those children.'(??!) Can't work it out.

Calvados, I used to feel I had it all pent up inside me, but I wrote them letters about what happened and how I felt and the long term effects, and talked about it loads to people and Therapist. Lots of people say write letters but don't send them but I sent mine. It may not work for everyone but it has helped me.

I also cut down contact but didn't completely cease it. I set boundaries of how much I could deal with. This and the letters and some other consequences they have had to deal with feels like revenge to me and lessens the anger.

I've worked out their reasons and feel an understanding of their behaviour, and the explanation makes me feel a bit better although I'm not saying that their reasons excuse their behaviour.

I haven't completely cut off because I don't feel that what they did is as bad as what some people do, except one of them who is dead now anyway.

Thank you OrdinarySAHM, I could never send the letters I wrote or re-read the diaries I kept, possibly out of fear that they would say I am imagining it and that I am a trouble maker who creates problems. I would even dread the response. How did they respond to your letters? It will take time and I have to muster up the courage as I am taking the easy way out by cutting off communication. But as you say, limiting contact time sounds better as I would be in control of the situation and not my mum and Sis who are as thick as thieves. In a way, I prefer to leave them in their own ignorance, why should I educate them. They have everything to gain from knowing me and my family again yet I have everything to lose. I constantly weigh this up in my head and then opt out.
Ordinary, how do you feel about the person who died? Did resuming contact help you deal with it when it happened. Do you think if you hadn't resumed contact you would be feeling differently? Thanks so much for listening, I am starting to feel much better. Two days ago I was in a wild rage. Thank you. X

Calvados I was absolutely horrified when I read that your mother left your 5 year old at the park on his own. This would be the final straw with me too if it were my mother who had done this. I tend to think that what goes on between myself and my mother should just stay between us. The second she started on my DC's or my DH that would it. No going back from that.

Rustinpeace I hope DH has got something from reading previous posts on this thread as you are right, you blokes do tend to bottle things up. This was certainly true for my DH and in December it resulted in him having a mental breakdown. Thankfully, he has since wanted to talk about his feelings more.

I'm sure it's because I'm pregnant because at the moment I keep having flash backs of things that have happened between my mother and I when I was a kid.

The one that keeps going over and over in my mind is when I was about 13 or 14. My older brother had come back to live with us after the break up of his first marriage (he would have been about 20 (yes I know young for a marriage breakup!)) On one particular day my mum and stepdad had been arguing (probably carried it over from the night before), I can even remember them arguing over who my younger brother, then 2 or 3 would live with and my mum stormed off in the car saying she was never coming back. My SF had been out looking for her on his motorbike. The phone rang and I answered it, it was my mother. She said that if SF didn't meet her in a certain place in 10 minutes she would be gone forever.

SF went to meet her and was gone for ages. When he came home (on his own) I can remember he was cross, really angry (which was very unlike him). It turned out that he was really angry with me and my older brother. The reason being that when he had gone to meet my mother the reason she gave him for wanting to leave etc is because me and my older brother didn't love her enough.

Another thought I've got going around in my head is that as a child I was never allowed to have friends in to our house/my bedroom to play. I always went to play at other kids houses. I think this was because my mother is so houseproud and didn't want a mess. On one particular occasion, my friend went to ask her mum if we could go in and play at their house and she came back and said "mum said no, you always play in our house why can't we play at your house for a change?", so I asked my mum and she said 'yes'. It was such a good feeling to finally be allowed friends in to play. When they went home my mum was cross and asked me to tidy my room so I did but it wasn't satisfactory to my mum so she came into my room and in one foul swoop brushed everything off all my shelves with her arm onto the floor and I was then told to tidy that up.

One more thing that has popped into my head is when I was quite young, I'm guessing 3 or 4 and my mum was a single parent. My older brother and I used to share a room. I was absolutely petrified of the dark (still am today) and my brother had come to bed and shut the bedroom door (I used to have it open and the landing light would be on because I was so scared). I remember shouting for my mum because I was so scared of the dark, she didn't come for ages and when she did she flipped me onto my front and proceeded to hammer on my back with her fists. I can't remember what she was saying but I know she was angry.

Sorry that turned a little long winded but I needed to get it off my chest. I think my PG hormones are playing me up!! I just keep wondering to myself if I am fcking up my kids like my mother has fcked me up (sorry for the swearing but that's the only way I can explain it). Everytime I shout at my kids or when I don't give them the attention they want, I'm left wondering if they are one step closer to being f*cked up.

Thanks Mampam for saying that you too would be horrified if your DS was left in the park on his own. It feels good to get that off my chest and see it for what it is. It was a neglectful act done in full knowledge that it would upset me and worse still, could have ended up very nasty. But it didn't lucky for us and now nearly ten years on, I am shouting about it because it is just one of many things that has eaten away at me. My mum must have been so jealous and unhappy to do a thing like that but if I confronted her, would say that I am making a big thing out of nothing. Really, methinks she has a personality disorder, mmm might do some research there.

Mampam, when you are pregnant, all feelings and emotions are intensified. It's good to get as much as you can out before the baby is born so that you can be at peace. I always used to think that deep down my mum would have been pleased if I couldn't cope and everything went pear shaped and I screwed my children up, but that just made me more determined to not be like her. I didn't become complacent and just concentrated on the children and the house, school etc. You really don't have spare time with a small baby plus toddler but that was good for me as I didn't stop to think about how horrible my mum and sister were. It's now that the kids are adults that I am looking back and examing why they are like this and ofcourse, I am scared that I have scarred my DC for life unknowingly because I didn't deal with it then when they were small. I cut them off instead and am slowly realising that what I did stemmed from my survival instinct. I must have felt that their relationship with my family was toxic and could pollute what I held sacred and precious. So, they had to go. Yes, at times I feel so guilty and the rage just wells up in me. But I will have to find a way to deal with it. My mother must have been a very unhappy woman who did not want her daughter to be happy and have the life that she wanted. It is so damaging.

Mampam when your mum punched your back that was her releasing all her frustration and misery at her own situation. It is so wrong but at least you know that and won't repeat it unlike others who would think that was normal behaviour. I do feel a pang of regret when I see families that have close relationships with their mothers and grandparents. I have to accept that that was not in the plan for me and that maybe I was lucky enough to escape or I could be more screwed up now and my children would be f*cked up too. It is my mum who missed out, yes she has my sister and her DC but are they really happy? They will say they are and that it was me who missed out but my gut intuition says that I am better off out of it and will not miss out on a headache or two. Have a long way to go still. Reminds me of a poem,
'The woods are lovely dark and deep
but I have promises to keep
and miles to go before I sleep
and miles to go before I sleep......'