'But We Took You to Stately Homes'...a thread for adult children of abusive families

[therealsmithfield]

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parent?s behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotional abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesnt have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure wether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts;.

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

follow up to pages first thread

Im sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out grin. I personally dont claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will recieve a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

This is my take on forgiveness. I am not going to risk commenting on anyone else's remarks

I understood the need - for my own wellbeing - to forgive. However, I'm extremely short of memories and so there were very few specific occasions I could raise as a starting point (that is, some of the conversations in this thread's introduction were impossible). More essentially, perhaps, I believed 'forgiveness' to be a kind of absolution - wiping the slate clean. That couldn't happen either; the damage was done and I would never see true remorse from either parent.

Another counsellor, and the 12-step programme, helped me to redefine forgiveness. The perfect version I envisaged isn't a human quality; it's an ideal, reserved for saints and deities. In everyday life, it was suggested I aim for the kind of forgiveness I give to my cat when she bites me. It hurts; it leaves marks; it's a malicious action. But I don't resent or fear the cat for doing it. I treat the bite and move along - I'm very cross with the cat, but have forgiven her.

Being a human type of forgiveness, this is imperfect. When the cat bites me again, I have to go through the process afresh. In a related fashion, I have to re-forgive my parents when a new issue arises in me, or something shows me an unhealed hurt. Each time I do it, though, it makes my soul feel 'cleaner' and my heart calmer.

Hmmm, I'm not supposed to be here! Honestly, it's like quitting an addiction! Forgive me ...

• I treat the bite and let it go

I look forward to my dreams. They're adventure-packed, technicolor affairs that always involve flying & water - aliens, too, quite often ;) I can never remember a whole dream, but sometimes a little vignette sticks with me. There's one I've been remembering all day today. I had to rescue a baby. The only way to safety was through deep water. I held the baby in front of me (not a brilliant water-rescue technique, I know, but it was a dream!) and was frightened that the water would be too cold for the baby. I waded in - and the water was as warm as a bath. I started swimming, in an impossibly upright (dream) manner, the baby against my chest. She gurgled happily

I hope this is a good sign!

Oh ... I had to write it down somewhere
[Grace buzzes off - again]

Grace, I liked reading about your dream. If I was a dream interpreter this is how I would interpret it:

The baby is you as your past self. You are trying to heal/rescue yourself from bad feelings from the past and you know there is a lot of emotion to go through to do this and that it might be difficult and painful (the water is all the emotion and you thought it would be too cold (painful)). The dream is trying to tell you that it won't be as bad and painful as you think (the water will turn out to be warm), and you will get through it much more easily than you had thought (being able to swim through the water in a way you would have thought of as impossible).

Thank you all of you who have written about anxiety since I posted about it. It feels good to think there are people who understand my 'ways' which might look silly to people in my RL.

WTSA, I suppose if I try to think about the exact nature of what I'm anxious about each time, I think it is mostly about the fear that someone might get angry with me. People scared me in the past with their anger and I haven't quite got rid of all the fear yet. Linked to that is the fear of rejection, and anger seems like rejection. At one time I felt very hurt by rejection, and I'm scared of the pain of how bad it felt then, coming back.

Mampam, I have wondered about CBT for anxiety and I think you are right that it could help. I can't afford to do it at the moment though. I'm not seeing my usual therapist at the moment either, partly to save money and partly because I'm feeling less need for it than I used to. I might read more about CBT on the net though and try to teach myself it a bit.

Rose, I get a lot of IBS and I think that is probably due to the anxiety. As a physical remedy, ginger beer is helping me a bit lately though. Also at those times of the day when blood sugar is lower and I feel irritable with the children, the ginger beer seems to be really helping with that too! (maybe any fizzy sugary drink would work). I sip it from 4pm til 6pm and I think it is helping me to be much more patient with the children.

Rose, you wrote to WTSA about people with narcissistic traits not having a concept of other people and other people's feelings, only their own. This reminds me of some things my therapist used to say. He believed that my brother (although he has never met him) had such problems bonding with a parental figure as a baby that the part of the brain that deals with relationships and empathy and bonding just did not develop and is not there. He believes he became independent, separate and saw people only in terms of their usefulness to him. He thinks this is how he could hurt people without guilt about how it must make them feel stopping him.

I can see Therapist's logic but he is also saying that because of this part of the brain did not develop my brother is incapable of changing. This bit I can't accept and I do feel that my brother has changed. He does seem to empathise with me and understand me very well, although that could be because we have such similar issues with such similar causes, so maybe he understands me just because he understands himself. I think that he is teaching himself to feel for other people with all his Buddhist practice, meditation, reading and Buddhist teachers who he sees.

Re forgiveness. When someone has done something really bad and shown no acknowledgement or remorse for it, it seems to me that forgiveness isn't going to do the victim/s any good. It seems so unnatural to forgive someone who has done you long term damage!

If it is little things like people in everyday life having the odd emotional outburst while under stress or saying the wrong thing while confused and upset, I often find this quite easy to forgive by understanding their reasons, especially if, once they have calmed down, they feel more 'reasonable'.

I found it interesting what you said Rose about how emotionally abusive/neglectful parents have not 'got away with it' because they are not as happy as people who are more able to feel love for others, themselves and for life. This thought feels comforting for some reason. I can see in relation to my own parents, that I believe I am living a happier and more fulfilled life than them with their emotionally closed off ways. This makes me feel sorry for them rather than 'revengeful' but is another thing which takes the edge off the anger. Thank you (that goes into my list of 'lightbulb thoughts').

Not much time today but just wanted to share something with you. I have spent a lot of time beating myself up about not doing as much as other mums wrt helping out at school and activities with the children etc. It was ridiculous really as logically I knew it was not because I was lazy, useless or a failure or inadequate and simply not as good or as organised as the other mums. But recently it occurred to me that the reason I haven't been able to do more like the other SAHM's that i know is actually because I am 'working'. The work I am doing is of course on myself, but it is very important, time consuming and tiring, but it is nevertheless work, and that is the reason I cannot help out more at school etc.

I felt such a relief when this thought popped into my head the other day. I know subconsciously I am still comparing myself to other mums and I always have found myself lacking. But telling myself I cannot help out because I am working seems perfectly acceptable.

I know it's not a big issue in the grand scheme of things but anything that makes you feel even a tiny bit better about yourself is a good thing.

Off on school run now, hopefully back later.

Place marking so as not to lose the thread again.

GottaGoSeeWhatTheCubIsUpToHe'sToQuietTiggaxx

Thanks for your dream reply, OSAHM. I also hoped the interpretation was as you described - though I hadn't cottoned on to the "impossible position" symbolism! That makes it even better Fingers crossed.

Re: anxiety. Dunno if anybody's interested, but I'm revisiting the technique of not being worried about it (paradoxical, huh?!) I've re-read 'Don't Sweat The Small Stuff' and 'Feel The Fear (and do it anyway' - and have ordered another book, which should be arriving tomorrow. At the moment, I'm finding it all very tricky but I do like the idea: it makes sense to me.

I have done a lot of adventurous things in my time and know I'm able to do them, even though I'm afraid. It's frustrating, then, that ordinary anxiety can stop me doing ordinary things!! My head knows the same theory applies, it just doesn't seem to listen to itself ...
Anyway, I'll post back on this if anybody wants to know my progress (or non-progress, heh). Just thought I'd share it, as so many are suffering anxiously.

OSAHM, as I understand it, the forgiveness isn't about helping the people you 'forgive', it's all about helping yourself :D

The 'exact nature' of anxiety is an interesting one. It would be good to get this one straight in my head.

Making mistakes and looking/feeling dumb

Getting things wrong (is that the same as above?)
For me this includes saying the wrong thing as well as doing the wrong thing.
Making decisions is a huge source of anxiety in case i make the 'wrong' decision.

Anger as in other peoples anger (also huge for me)
And yes I think this links to rejection

Re forgiveness. I still believe its important to process the anger first. Although it may of course be possible to reach forgiveness on the other side? I dont know. Im not there yet.
Anger is a valid emotion and one that is often supressed in children when it isnt safe to express it. Yet anger is what keeps us safe, and alert us to danger isnt it?
I dont want to suppress anger anymore because I internalised it for so many years and made myself ill with depression, asthma, self abuse.

I found the quote I was looking for - I found it because I needed it again today! (Got ishoos sticking out of me like cloves on a Christmas orange)
It was this:
< "If I let him off the hook by abandoning my anger and blame," she said, "then I'll be saying that what he did was OK."

"But in order to get him and keep him on that hook," I told her, "you have to stay attached to that hook with him." The price of blame is staying stuck in pain and suffering. >

From www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Articles/trust.html

If someone is able to forgive then that could be a good thing if it brings them peace, but if someone is not able to forgive then that is ok too. Especially when it comes to childhood abuse it's important for people to honour their 'true' feelings in order to really heal. I thought I had forgiven/moved on at one point but I was in denial about my real feelings.
Now I have processed those feelings that I had buried I do feel able to move on, but Im not sure if this constitutes forgiveness or not. I dont feel any guilt about it anymore either way.

'There is no shame in not forgiving; few people ever really complete the task, even when they want to..' beverley engel.

Really sad. My birthday. Feel like I've taken some mind-altering drug, on a "bad trip" as the hippies used to say - can't do anything about it today, just have to ride it out and wait for the birthday bogiemen to recede. Not that it's been all bad, far from it - there have been wonderful parts of today, like there are wonderful parts of every day these days, with my little DS to light up my life - but I have felt as if I am behind a wall for a lot of the day, and not being able to fully feel the joy of being with him has made it painful in a different way. And of course trying to look after him when I just want to sit and cry for a while is always difficult, as most of you know. It's a funny mix, this blend of really deep joy and happiness, and the equally deep pain and fear that have always been there - the deepest parts of which are only getting felt now, with the emotional safety I have in my life now, and with the "upper layers" as it were already healed.

Thank you OSAHM and others for the discussion about anxiety. I am crippled by it too in certain ways and many of the things that others list are a trigger. DS's birthday parties - OMG. And he's only two. Hostessing in general, sometimes even when it's people I know well. Driving to unfamiliar places - yes. Having to take faulty things back to a shop for a refund, that's also one for me at the moment. A sense of something that needs doing weighing down on me, a fear that I just won't be able to do it, and that that will have terrible consequences. I feel like that about an awful lot of things. I think some of it - a lot of it? - is linked to the Impossible Task of winning my parents' love. There is one thought I have found really helpful. When I think it through, the fear is usually linked to that childhood desperate need to get them to love me/primal fear of death if they don't love me, which would explain why the feelings are so intense. "If I don't do this, they'll never love me (and I'll die); if I get it right, they will (and I'll live)." When I manage to remember to say to myself "it doesn't matter whether I get this right or not, they'll never love me (and I won't die as a result)", it seems to take the heat out of it and I can usually then calm down. But obviously I can't always have that conversation with myself every single time I feel anxious about something, so I still live with a lot of anxiety, and try and focus on trying to heal that terrified part of me.

Smithfield, thank you for your posts re the thread - you articulated so much of what I felt and wanted to say myself.

Rose, what a wonderful post you wrote in response to WTSA, I found it so helpful and again you articulated things I was feeling, and things I didn't know I was feeling too! And what you say at the end is very true. They are dead inside. My life has been infinitely harder than that of anyone in my family - and I would still like to have some of their ease in life - but I do have something they don't have and will never have and that is the experience of giving and receiving real love and intimacy. Their version of love is just a big fake; their lives, ultimately, are a big, fake sham.

I've had a couple of emails which have helped me feel it really is worth me speaking out and voicing my opinions, that I am not just speaking for myself but really am indirectly supporting others too - thank you very much for that, you know who you are! It's quite an issue for me as I was always made to feel that I was the confrontational one in my family (WTSA, I think this happened to you too?), that I was somehow always looking for an argument, that I was just bolshie and difficult and awkward, that I was looking for a fight where there wasn't one, that all the rest of my family were mild-mannered, reasonable folk (YEAH RIGHT!!!!!) and obviously this has stayed with me. It's just one of the many layers of things that have made it hard for me to feel justified in voicing my opinions. That's the thing about abuse, isn't it - they make you believe their distorted image of you is real.

Anyway, enough of a preamble, I do feel again it's important to speak up on this issue of "forgiveness". There are so few places where we can actually own and acknowledge our anger and blame as the powerful and NECESSARY healing tools/forces they are, that I really think that this one (this thread) should be sacrosanct in that respect. I personally truly believe - along with others on here, I know - that blame is not only ok, it is ESSENTIAL to true healing. Speaking from my own experience, I went through a period of quite a few years where I went along with the "new age" type thing saying that forgiveness is essential to healing, that holding on to your anger hurts you as much as the person you're angry with, etc etc. And I suffered greatly as a result. I had a RIGHT to my anger, I had a RIGHT to blame my parents, and depriving myself of that right just perpetuated the old model of family relationships, ie we can do anything we like to Bop and get away with it - even while pretending we're listening to her and understanding her - because basically she's a lower life form, of lesser worth than us and ... we just can. Because I think for a lot of us, we're not just talking about the way our parents/siblings behaved when we were children, we're talking about the way they continue to behave once we reach adulthood - the continued whitewash, the denial, and usually, continued emotional abuse/lack of respect/lack of validation of our feelings, us as people.

I wasted precious years of my fertility on that forgiveness road trip, and maybe if I'd met someone who told me it was OK to blame and be angry and stay angry a bit earlier, I might have had more chance of having a larger family (chances very low now). When I met my now therapist I asked her very early on for her take on forgiveness and was so relieved to hear her reply that in her opinion it wasn't a part of the healing process. In fact, she said she thought it was the other way round - that when you really get the healing, then you sort of forgive automatically, or you don't even need to because it just melts away - because you are genuinely no longer being hurt by whatever it is. Don't know if that's true; haven't got there yet. If indeed I ever will. But blaming my parents instead of myself is the one thing that has moved my life on from a miserable existence to one based on real happiness, love and fulfillment.

I know I am only echoing what several other people have said, that you have to go through your own process of blame and noone else can say when you should stop; but I do feel very strongly that yet again this is about the essence of the thread. While it is obviously an individual's choice to follow the path of forgiveness if that's what works for her, I personally don't feel that the concept of "you need to forgive for your own healing" is a healthy attitude to be propogating on this thread. That is an attitude you hear enough in RL, along with "why don't you let it go and move on blah blah blah". I personally think that the permission to feel, and feel good about, your own anger is one of the things that this thread can offer as a rare "luxury" almost in life, one of the thread's USP's if you like. People who come here are vulnerable and don't need to be frightened into thinking that their anger/blame is somehow unhealthy.

I also find the idea of equating an abusive family member with a cat frankly surreal.

I am getting tired of arguing the toss about issues like this though and unfortunately I can't see it changing. It's starting to remind me of the circular "conversations" I used to have with my mother before I went NC. Maybe I'm just giving this person's views far too much weight. I would like to just ignore what she writes, but I do feel a lot of it still has a pernicious effect on the thread. The whole thing is starting to really get to me; it's depressing me and losing me sleep - cause the idea of this safe place not being a safe place any more upsets me so much - and I think it's one of the reasons I've been feeling so crap today. Am I on my own on this?

Bop, you've made your point spectacularly clear and I'm swearing off this thread forever. I feel like the little girl I was, being told I couldn't play with the other girls because I was odd. I also feel like the eager, enquiring teenager I was, whose opinions were shouted down and jeered at. I have to thank you for that, since you have doubtless shown me hurts I need to heal. I don't feel all that thankful right now, however. Well done.

I don't blame others for my own feelings and I am not 'blaming' you. Like you, however, I do claim a right to express my own feelings. I just have done.

Bye.

and happy birthday

Oh god, not yet another argument

Do people with different views actually have to leave? I don't agree with every view that gets aired either, but doesn't it just provide important things to discuss? It could be a useful thing for us to read things that differ from our own views. I think discussing forgiveness is useful. I find it useful to remind myself that although the 'fashionable' thing may be to forgive (is it? Maybe for some things but not for others?) and find peace that way, I'm deciding not to feel guilty if I don't forgive everything because when I think about it, I think forgiveness of some extreme things such as child abuse, does the victim/s harm.

It is useful to keep discussing it if society is making us feel conflicted, not just one person on this thread, to re-think what our views are (whether they have changed or stayed the same which is fine either way), reassure ourselves that we really do believe in whatever our view is, and feel reassured that we are doing the right thing.

Personally I don't feel offended by any of you having a different view from me. I don't feel like any of you are saying I ought to think the way you do. Maybe in the past we were told we must accept and adopt other people's views and so it can seem like that is what Grace, Spiky etc are doing. But maybe they are not! Maybe they are just saying 'this is my view, it is different to yours'. They are not saying 'this is my view and you should change yours to the same as mine'.

What they have done is nothing like as bad as what has been done to you in the past even though it might remind you of it and trigger those feelings. I don't think it is bad enough for them to have to leave the thread.

I think if loads of people were all saying on here things like 'you should forgive your grandfather for sexually abusing you, your brother for bullying you physically and mentally and your parents for turning a blind eye and refusing to help you and not showing any positive emotion ever and making you believe that expressing any emotion was wrong, and you should disregard all your feelings about it and just let it go and 'let them off' etc' I would get bloody 'arsey'! But because there are also lots of people saying it is ok to be angry etc I feel ok I can cope with people saying it if there are also others who are saying the opposite. Challenging the opposite view occasionally, realising I still think the same, and reminding myself why, and other people saying why they think the same as me as well, I find reassuring.

There is another thing I've thought of. What if it would be healthy for people eg Grace, to have their views on forgiveness etc challenged? What if it might help them? What if they have been told things and believed things which might not be doing them any good? Shouldn't they stay so that they can read all our views on it and they might want to change their minds and it might help them?

To me, it doesn't seem like Grace is personally attacking anyone, but some people might be feeling personally attacked because they want to talk somewhere where they don't want their views challenged, just listened to. Maybe I am more resilient to it than I would have been when I was at an 'earlier stage' though.

Am I going to be told off now? I hate people leaving, it upsets me. I think that triggers my stuff! I can't help trying to stop it happening.

My impulse is to defend the rejected one because I hate the thought of them being alone. I used to feel like the rejected one.

...it's why I have such a strong urge to stand by my brother, because he is being rejected by the whole of society by being locked up in prison. I hate rejection. I hate it that I was rejected by my birthparents and then felt rejected by my adoptive parents because they showed no emotion.

Im going to stick my neck out here because I do feel very strongly wrt the forgiveness thing and (not that I didn't have strong feelings about the other recently discussed issues but that aside).

I do agree with bop because this is the absolute crux of being able to heal and move on.
I did find that quote (I think we all know which one) upsetting because I felt as though it was telling me or anyone reading it that they could only be free from
'pain and suffering' if they forgive their parents. That this is the only way they can move on.
The quote itself was talking about divorce and not about childhood abuse or adult children of abuse and I think they are two seperate things completely.
So I dont really understand the purpose of it being posted here.
Im conscious also that women have posted on here recently who ACTUALLY believe that it wasnt that bad. They believe that because their parents/abusers have gaslighted them and denied everything that has happened to them. These are women who were sexually,physically and emotionally abused.
The fact is I only became free from my 'pain and suffering' since I decided that what my parents did and as bop clearly pointed out continued to do was NOT OK.
The only reason I even got to that point in my life was because of this thread. Beacuse finally someone listened to all my pain and anguish and sat completely on my side. Finally I got some validation that it absolutely wasn't alright for them to have done what they did. Suddenly I could stop blaming myself and be angry with them instead of turning it on myself.
I think perhaps the impression may be that people on this thread are stuck in some sort of 'negative' pattern. What you read on here is only half the story. We post on here for support and so posts are often weighted with negative thoughts and feelings, ambivilence, guilt, anguish, but that is oly half the story. I have never been as connected to myself, my life and my beautiful family as since I began this journey.
If my parents wanted or needed my forgiveness to move on and asked me for it I would probably give it. But they dont think they need it because it is me who is the problem not them. They are the one's who abused a small innocent child not me. As NLD so rightly said it's not my job to forgive them.

Grace I really hope you don't sign off this thread forever. I like reading your posts, however, I do think you need to have the break that you and your counsellor discussed especially as you say it's making you feel like a little girl again.

It's your decision to make and if something is causing you hurt then maybe now is the time to step back and have a break.

I'm wishing you well with whatever you decide is best for you.

I'm feeling absolutely awful today. I've been awake since 3am so I'm tired as well as hormonal today and something has happened which has really upset me.

My brother made a comment on his Facebook status about Haiti along the lines of take a look at the situation and think yourself lucky. I made a comment saying I wish our Government would stump up some cash for those who really need it in our country too. He has now compared me to the BNP. This at first made me so angry I could feel the rage inside me but now after hardly any sleep I feel really upset by this.

He's so bloody righteous for someone who has hurt and treated every woman he has ever been with like dirt. He has cheated on all these women too. He has got 4 children (that we know of) by 3 different women and 2 divorces under his belt. He's a compulsive liar and doesn't care who he hurts.

What really annoys me most is that whatever he does, however bad he hurts people he always comes up smelling of roses. If I did some of the things he had I would be disowned from my family. But he's Mr f*cking wonderful.

I resent him also for having such a well paid job and doesn't do an awful lot, this came about because he got a major helping hand from our Grandfather, he didn't deserve it but he was the blue eyed boy.

I think the major issue here is that all my life I have tried to do the right thing. I've tried my hardest to be a good person. I've done the right thing even when it has made me miserable and I always put other people's feelings before my own. When I haven't done the right thing I have carried the guilt of it on my shoulders for years and years. I look at my brother he has everything. Things in life comes so easy for him, I on the otherhand have a constant struggle in life.

Every second of every day is a struggle for me. Wondering where the money for food is going to come from, how am I going to pay the bills, being scared to answer the phone in case it's someone asking for money that I can't give them. DH's job has gone from bad to worse in the last year, DH has had a breakdown, I've got the worst IL's, I'm having the worst pregnancy, I have an exH whose wife is such a bitch to me even though they cheated on me. I was left to pick up the pieces with the kids when ex left, I'm left to struggle to pay for things for the kids and look like the big bad wolf when I can't afford things but ex can. I have to live with the low self esteem that having someone cheat on you leaves you with. It was me who grew up in rural Devon and was the only black person in our family and our area because my mother was so selfish and married a black man back in the end of the 70's and I was the product of that marriage. It's very rare even now to see people of different origins in this area and I had to grow up being different to everyone else. There was no one else like me when I was growing up so had to go through all the racism thing on my own. Even today all my friends are white. I've never had anyone to talk to about it that understands. There aren't even any hairdressers that know how to do my afro hair so I don't go. My hair looks awful and I get so jealous of other people with nice hair. They don't sell afro hair products in this area and I don't know what to do because I've never had anyone to show me. My mother used to cut my hair short as a child and I was more often than not mistaken for a boy.

Ok I'm going to stop now because I'm sobbing and I'm not sure working myself up like this is good for the baby. I'm sorry I feel so selfish for having said all this out loud.

OSAHM I feel that as a trigger too I think. I feel incredibly sad if one person feels ganged up on. Even if they are not being. Just the thought of them 'feeling' that way feels painful.
Because I am more conscious now of challenging views I dont feel I can just post and question grace's view without sounding confrontational.
I have to admit grace's posts have made me re-assess my own feelings but I worry about others who wont be where I'm up too now.
If someone had posted that at the beginning, that I should move on by forgiving my parents,it would have created a great deal of turmoil for me I think.

oh mampam I dont care about the bloody mn'ness correctness, virtual hug
here(((mampam))) And I think we need to get back to handing out fluffy towels. . Im so glad you wrote all that down, it gives me such a clear picture of who you are.
I've related to a lot of what you said. The golden child brother (check), the feelings of alienation (check), but more than anything the twisting yourself into knots to win their approval.
The problem is you end up suppressing all your own needs and making yourself miserable to win something that will never come.
You may just be realising that and feeling the waves of grieve now.
The crying is very healing. It's ok to feel this sad better for you (and the baby) than burying it.

waves of grief