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Original poster

how to discuss marriage without it sounding like an ultimatum

37 replies

glasgal · 08/01/2010 21:05

I've been with DP for 4.5 yrs. We have a 2yr old DD and raise my DS (7yrs) together. We are 29 and 31.
When we first met I am sure he said he wanted to get married in the next couple of years but he has recently said that he thinks people only get married to "have a party".
This has really upset me as marriage is important to me. I don't see why he wouldn't want it unless he doesn't really love me. (I have my suspicions that he is only with me because I got pregnant.)
I would be happy being single. I just don't like being in this halfway house of a relationship without commitment.
How do I broach the subject without it sounding like an ultimatum or breaking us up?

OP posts:
compo · 08/01/2010 21:08

Ooh tricky one

I guess if marriage was that important to you it does make me wonder why you have got as far as you have without pinning him down?

Wigglesworth · 08/01/2010 21:13

Hmmm, you say you would be happy being single, do you actually want to be married to you DP? Besides you don't have to have a party when you get married, bugger off abroad and combine it with a family holiday. Are you both happy with each other?

Original poster
glasgal · 08/01/2010 23:27

Compo- I've spent the past 2 year expecting him to propose at each anniversary/birthday/special occasion. I don't want us to just discuss it and decide to, I want a proposal. If I have to ask him then I'll always think that he never loved me enough to ask.

Wigglesworth- I want to marry him but I don't want him to marry me just for the sake of our child. If I cornered him he'd agree to go along with it so as he wouldn't lose our DD. I want to tackle the subject without it ending in such a all or nothing conclusion.
I wouldn't want a big, expensive wedding but he has probably guessed otherwise.
We are happy, but I am quite often grumpy with him because of this non-marriage situation, with him being totally oblivious as to why I'm grumpy.

OP posts:
MrsSchadenfreude · 08/01/2010 23:33

Why is marriage so important to you? There's no real need to get married is there? (Clearly not from his POV!) Isn't having a child together a big enough commitment?

Anniegetyourgun · 08/01/2010 23:45

Well, it sounds like you're going to have to say something, else he'll never get round to it. It may preclude the spontaneous gesture by him that you are looking for, but if he doesn't step up you will be in limbo forever. Besides, why should it be the man's job to ask? Last time I checked this was the 21st century. I suggest something fairly radical like "I would like to get married". That way he can't say he never realised you wanted to...

unavailable · 08/01/2010 23:47

Why do you see your relationship as a "halfway house"? In what way do you think it would be changed by being married?

BigBadMummy · 08/01/2010 23:49

Propose to him?

noddyholder · 08/01/2010 23:52

The halfway house feeling is nothing to do with a piece of paper.

expatinscotland · 08/01/2010 23:55

how about bringing up that you'd like to make wills or some other sort of legal recognition to cover each other in case one of you fell ill or died?

and approaching it from that angle?

sayithowitis · 09/01/2010 00:08

If marriage was that important to you, why did you go ahead and have a child together without being married? I ask because I can imagine that in his mind, now that you live together and have a child, he has already made a commitment to you. He may not realise that you actually want to be married. Do you want a marriage or just a proposal? If it is a marriage, then why can't you ask him? If it is the proposal that you want, it looks as though you may spend a long time waiting and could end up never getting it.

Original poster
glasgal · 10/01/2010 23:06

I'll try the will idea, thanks.

I'd never propose because I remember reading that marriages where the woman proposes have a much higher divorce rate.

Our DD wasn't something we'd planned so I don't see that as a commitment on his part.

Legally, there are lot of benefits to being married, especially if one of us died so the "piece of paper" is really important to me and would change how I regard our relationship.

OP posts:
sayithowitis · 10/01/2010 23:44

I can understand that you don't see your dd as a commitment on his part if she wasn't planned, however, he might consider that since he has supported you and stayed with you, that he has made a commitment.

I think your argument about marriages not lasting where the woman proposed is actually a bit silly. My DH never 'proposed' to me, we just sort of decided to start saving and when we had enough to buy a house and pay for the wedding, we set the date. We never even got engaged (Though he did buy me an 'engagement' ring for our silver wedding), we have been married for nearly 30 years, whereas many of our friends, most in fact, who had the traditional proposal and engagement, are now divorced and with new partners. One friend has had four proposals, four weddings and four divorces!

I know this is sounding as though I disagree with you, but actually I don't, I am very much in favour of marriage, but do wonder why you have allowed it to get to this stage without being married when it is so clear to me at least, that you appear to feel about it as I do. I know I would not have had a child with someone who did not want to marry me, especially when he knows how much it means to you.

SolidGoldBloodyJanuaryUrgh · 11/01/2010 00:15

FFS! If you want to be married, you have to tell him. He probably isn't that fussed about the idea of getting married but would quite likely be happy to marry you if he knew it mattered to you.
However, if you carry on expecting him to read your mind over important things then you may well end up getting divorced, because it's maddening to live with someone who can't actually ask for what they want, just moons around waiting for it to happen then gets all sulky and weepy when it doesn't - to the utter bewilderment of the partner who didn't know what was wanted.

moondog · 11/01/2010 00:18

'I'd never propose because I remember reading that marriages where the woman proposes have a much higher divorce rate.'

Eh?
Where did you read that? Take a break?

I'm with SolidGold.
Tell him what you want and stop sighing and weeping like a Victorian consumptive.

bloodyright · 11/01/2010 00:20

Glasgal, the time to be coy and wait for a proposal was probably before conceiving a child together and then jointly raising said child. Never mind that this way of thinking belongs somewhere in the first half of last century.

You seem to have some up side down view of a romantic proposal. Please, please, please - take control of the situation - why oh why women in this day and age still wait for men to ask them to marry them is just beyond me.

I'm pretty sure he has grasped the idea that you would quite like a shared life together. He is not in a hurry to get married. It is not pissing him off - it is pissing you off, so sort it out.

I am really really sorry to be the one to break this to you - you have fallen in love with a guy who has never dreamed of the moment he would ask his girl to marry him. It is not important to him, if it was - well - he would have asked you.

And if he has always dreamed of the moment of proposal but you just aren't the girl his dreams involved - well - wouldn't you rather know sooner rather than later?

And if statistics are influencing your decision - without the marriage you are more likely to split up.

Why don't you create the romantic moment but you do the asking - surely the romance lies in the love you share and the beauty of a joint commitment to a lifetime together through thick and thin.

Sorry for the rant - this is a personal bugbear of mine (if you hadn't already guessed).

moondog · 11/01/2010 00:26

Well said Bloody. i agree with all you say.

hambler · 11/01/2010 00:39

either
a) he wants to marry you
b) he doesn't.

Ask him and you have your answer

drloves8 · 11/01/2010 00:45

just ask him.

skidoodle · 11/01/2010 05:57

Poor bastard. You are being really unfair.

If you want to get married then tell him so. Don't expect him to guess what you want and get in a mood when he doesn't follow the script you made up in your head.

What kind of relationship do you have with two children and one more on the way when you aren't even talking about thus stuff?

flimflammum · 11/01/2010 06:16

Hey guys, you're being a bit hard on the OP, she's asking the question how to discuss it. It's not easy to just come right out and say, I want to get married. She understandably wants to feel that he wantsto marry her, not that he's going along with it. But it's true, she does need to talk to him.

What about saying something like, I've been thinking about us, and how things are going, now that the DCs are x age. And the more I think about it, the more I realise that actually, marriage is important to me, it's not just a piece of paper or an excuse for a party. To me it's two people standing up in front of their friends and family and stating their commitment to each other. How do you feel about it? By the way, I don't envisage us having a big expensive do, just a ceremony that means something to us.

2010aQuintessentialOdyssey · 11/01/2010 07:50

Could the key to this lie here?

"How do I broach the subject without it sounding like an ultimatum or breaking us up? "

If you think discussing something as important as marriag will break you up, then I fear that your relationship is doomed anyway. But you know this, which is why you want HIM to propose, as you need this to "test" his commitment to you. I think you need to get realistic and sit down for an honest discussion about your hopes and fears for your future, and how marriage feature for you, legally, if not romantically.

LoveBeingAMummy · 11/01/2010 08:00

Basically you want him to do it without having to say something to him.

I think you need to think about whether not getting married would mean you do not want to stay with him.

There are lots of opportunties to talk about how you feel without saying outright i want to get married to you hurry up! Discussing a tv/film, discussing a thread on mumsnet you have seen , discussing a friend who has been waiting a long time for her bf to propose. etc

What you can't do is control the outcome of starting this discussion, hence the answer to the above question is so important. You either raise it and accept the outcome, or wait and see.

PfftTheMagicDragon · 11/01/2010 08:06

Well, clearly it's not about the marriage. It's a test. You are worried that he is not with you for the right reasons, or that he doesn't love you really, or that he will stay with out of obligation to your DD.

Maybe he is worried that you want a big fluffy wedding and is worried about what that will entail? Maybe he really doesn't like marriage. Or maybe he doesn't want to get married to you. Unlikely, as you live together, you have a child and he is raising a child he is not biologically related to.

However, there is only one way to find this out. You need to TALK to him. If you need to tell him that you just want to be married, not have a big wedding, do so. If you need him to say that he really loves you, do it. But you need to talk it out. You can't trick him into proposing, and what sort of life is it, to sit around, hoping he will but imagining all the reasons that he hasn't?

SqueezyIsStartinAResolution · 11/01/2010 08:38

Agree with so many opinions on here. Also that after 4.5 years and a child, marriage should be a subject that you can talk about. It shouldn't be the elephant in the room. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be married to the person that you love. At the same time, not needing to be married as a sign of commitment is equally valid. You need to find out his views, not in general, but specifically in relation to you and your future.

However, you cannot be upset with someone for them not giving you something that you haven't told them that you want.....

And......statistics like those are mostly bollocks IMO. You have as fair a chance as anyone of either making things work, or making a mess of it. None of us know the future and there are no guarantees in any situation.

MamaLazarou · 11/01/2010 08:56

OP, I had the very same problem with my DP (now my DH). He just didn't understand my reasons for wanting to marry and didn't realise how important it was to me (like your DP, he thought I just wanted the big frothy 'do'). I let him know how rejected and upset it made me feel

We decided to go a few Relate sessions to discuss it. After 3 hour-long sessions, we understood each others' points of view far more clearly, and got married a few months later.

It would have been lovely and romantic for him to come to this realisation off his own back, and propose to me spontaneously with a big sparkly ring, but that wasn't the most important thing for me. The most important thing was getting (and being) married.

I soon got over the initial (slight) disappointment that things hadn't worked out the way I had expected them to, and now we couldn't be happier. He is a very practical man, and just because he didn't get down on one knee with a Tiffany box, doesn't mean he doesn't adore me. He just shows his affection in more everyday ways: always supporting me and being there for me and never letting me forget how much he appreciates me. I'd choose all that over a big romantic gesture any day (not saying you can't necessarily have both, that's just the kind of guy I've got).

Hope this helps. Good luck!

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