Why can't you be happy with a nice simple life?

[Robeena]

A quick background, 3 kids eldest ds is 4, the next ds almost 3 then dd 15mths. I used to work in a position that was considered professional/executive, but I haven?t set foot in an office since the week before 2ds was born.

I am not saying I am a domestic goddess but I have applied running the house the same way I would at work and I do everything from paying bills, cooking, cleaning and organising the kids ? so basically when my husband gets home from work there is dinner on the table, clothes ironed etc etc.

Then last September I decided to set up my own business ? now as I didn?t want it to interfere with the children?s routine I do everything regards my new business in the morning before they wake and after they go to bed. On top of this as I had stopped breastfeeding to lose the baby weight from #3 I took up running which is two evenings a week.

My husband now feels that I have no time for him and he is ?sick to death of me being holed up in the study with the laptop in the evenings and that now he is at the bottom of my list of priorities and importance?.

We have been together over 10 years married for 8 and this has been the biggest argument we have ever had where I think basically he got used to me being the old fashioned wife ? he said he is happy with his family unit and how things were and why couldn?t I be happy with a nice simple life....

Could your DH cut his hours down and take on more of the child care etc?

Brahms and SolidGold, I think you're both spot on.

Good luck with the business. I am sure you can compromise over the home cooking. It does sound rather Stepford
Can you do more when dc at nursery? go running then, say, instead of eves (must be nicer to run in daylight)
You don't have to be perfect

Most people don't feel the need to tell other people how well their children eat, or how well their wife does this and that in the house. They are just quietly pleased if they know their DW is a good mum. It's a weird attitude to be pleased that you've ticked some kind of achievement box, and that everyone needs to know about it.

It doesn't matter who does the housework, it's not a badge of honour. It's not a huge step to pay someone to clean 4 or 5 hours a week if you're on a good wage, and I think that's the answer to this one.

You two staying together and your children having a secure family unit is more important than loosing face by getting in a bit of help - be it ironer, childcare so you can work during the day, or cook of some sort, surely?

It looks as though you need to have this business for you - fair enough - but can you afford to out source some of the menial stuff to free you up for your DH?

By the way - I feel quite tired just reading about your day!

I wasn't saying it's better or worse to be a dedicated housewife, just that it's unfair to assume DH prefers housewife. For all we know, he'll be just as happy if OP runs her business by day & a 'daily' does the household stuff.

Hiring somebody to do that work is no different from hiring office staff - they're both there to make business run more smoothly.

Thank you all for your input and I have to agree with a lot of of what you all said domesticity was unfulfilling for me - I was bored and unchallenged by it all and felt that I could do more. I hate cleaning and ironing and took no pride from it - the cooking was a different matter I do love cooking and enjoy doing this with the kids 'helping out'.

Yes I did channel all my energy into the stupid housework and what I did have was a clean house and everything running like clockwork.

My husband comes from a family where his mum stayed home with her four kids and there was home cooked meals every meal time. His mother is the ultimate domestic goddess - this woman irons underwear - I know she does this when she comes to stay. His parents are retired now and they do sit at home in the evenings and she knits/crochets/embroiders and they watch endless reruns of the 'Last Of The Summer Wine' together and they are happy.

I am not mocking them as they have been married for almost 50 years but I can't be his mum. I don't watch a lot of TV and when I do I hate watching the news or anything too serious as it is depressing and my husband is happy to spend evenings watching TV with me sitting next to him. But this is a relatively new thing as before kids this isn't what we did.

In answer to some other questions I would love to go running during the day but I have no one to watch the baby.

And abaout DP doing stuff around the house he does come home most evenings in time to give the boys their bath and read stories and to be fair to him he does a lot more than most father's of my firends because he gets home early - but he doesn't do stuff at weekends as he feels that is family time and he wants to spend it with us.

Right now what I need is time away from everybody to clear my head.

I'm sorry Robeena, you seem stuck at the moment.

I do hope you get even a small amount of time to think.

Just out of interest I saw a jogger about a month ago, pushing a buggy while jogging! It made me smile then hope it didn't topple.

Have you thought about Tai chi, yoga, or something easier to do at home to start with?

Your husband obviously needs to see you as a different person with your own wants & needs. I wish you success with teaching him that!

Well, you are doing more than one job! Doing the children and house is a job.

Then, you work evenings too.

Like others have said, it would be best for you to set up some child care, even if just for the mornings (kids qualify for free playgroup sessions from age 2.9), and that would give you a few hours a day to work.

I think your husband is not very sensitive if he suggests you be happy with a "simple" life.

I am a former lawyer now housewife, and I do it as it´s so clearly the best for the whole family...only that I get SO BORED at times, much as I love them, I find it hard, so I see where you´re coming from....

will be watching thread with interest...

I totally agree with Chandon.

You have decided to set up the business because being a housewife 24/7 doesn't fulfil you. Nothing wrong with that - thousands of women feel exactly the same. If you were in a conventional job, you'd have to get childcare sorted, but you're stressing yourself and your husband out by trying to cram everything in without it. It can't be done! Not without your family suffering anyway. Organise proper childcare for fixed times, during the day, and use that to concentrate on your business. You will feel better and more professional about it anyway - it'll be more like a proper job rather than feeling you can only do it when the kids are having a nap.

Then you get your evenings back with your husband and everyone's happy. I don't think your husband is being unreasonable btw. While you were a SAHM it's entirely reasonable that you did the housework and cooked the dinner - you were the one at home with no other job. But now you are running a business, so you need to make allowances for that.

Robeena,

I'm a childminder and I look after a baby twice a week for an hour so the mum can go for a run...

What would 'evenings with dh' actually consist of? Interesting that you don't miss that yorself and find working more attractive. Perhaps you find eveings with dh pretty boring.

It struck a chord with me when you said you sometimes watch tv together but this is a new thing. That's how it is in our house too - we seem to have no other 'interesting' way to spend evenings together and usually do our own thing seperately. We are starting to try to get out more - the planning and babysitting not withstanding as I feel we are really sliding into a very dull rut.

I also find domesticity vastly tedious and have to have some sort of work going on. In my case, for about 18 months this meant I worked at home on Saturdays and dh was in sole charge of dd. Would your dh agree to something similar if it freed up other time? Mine was not thrilled - but once the routine gets going it's good for them - bonding etc

Remember that very few people actually find housework 'fulfilling' (and those people should TBH get jobs as cleaners or managers of cleaning agencies or something). Housework is boring-but-necessary shitwork, and it is complete bullshit that women are somehow destined to thrive on it - if you like, the whole history of human civilisation has been about identifying and labelling a slave-class to do the domestic shitwork.
If there's enough money, outsource either childcare or housework. But I, too, would go fucking barmy at being expected to spend my evenings gazing adoringly at a man watching TV.

I feel so much better that I am not the only one out there who is unfulfilled by doesticity - it took me ages to seperate the SAHM bit with domestic drudge that I had become.

There is a part of me that is trying to figure out why I can't be happy as a housewife/mother why am I looking for another challenge?

Preraphalitegirl - this may sound really selfish but I cannot run with a baby in the jogger - this is my one time where I can clear my head and there is only me and my thoughts. Admitedly with all this snow I haven't run for about 5/6 weeks and so I haven't had a moment to myself. I don't know if this is a factor...

Of course you're not the first woman to be unfulfilled by domesticity and life at home with small children, I've always known it would drive me crazy, that's why there's a whole raft of feminist books on the subject. The feminine mystique, the Woman's room, Housewife!, and many more. It's utterly normal for many women not to be happy with a "simple" life of childcare, housework and good wifeliness (ugh).

I think it's great that you have the energy to work on a business after a day looking after children. We are trying to set up a home based business too, though we both work at other jobs in the daytime, and it does mean at the moment that my DP is busy working night after night, sometimes that's a bit tedious for me but I appreciate he's got the drive to do it, I like that about him, he's not the sort to lounge around watching tv.

I'd suggest you offered your husband several alternatives:

1. Would he like it if you paid for childcare and worked more on the business during the day? (we have 3 children too and I know it gets expensive)

1. Would he prefer to help more with childcare and housework himself, thereby freeing up a bit more of your time?

1. If he doesn't like either of these first two options I'd personally tell him tough, this is the way it's going to be. and he'll have to get used to it. don't give up your dreams though just so he has company to watch tv with of an evening.

Solidgold - your comments made me laugh.

My DP and I are are total opposites and that was what made us works so well. BC (before children) I used to do similar things in the evenings like the running and we were made it a point of staying in the first part of the week as we always had work functions towards the end of the week. We hardly watched TV except catching a movie on the movie channel.

Then before I was pregnant with #1 I started taking active steps about launching my new business but with the pregancy and work I was just too tired so let it go.

But now I feel I am in a position to do a home business and feel that I don't have enough support and understanding.

Tonight is our 'Friday night pizza night' which we started after bbay #3 was born this is the one night we make dinner together (as pizza is easy for him to cook) and talk and I feel that I am going to be beating my head a wall and be crying as I am talking and no one is listening.

I can quite understand why your dh wants you to revert back to full time domesticity. How lovely for him to come home to a tidy house, happy kids in bed, dinner on the table and a lovely wife who wants to talk to him about his day, watch a dvd together etc.

But as others have said this was not enough for you and you are not only mum in world who wants to work. A number of my friends' dhs have strongly resisted their attempts to go back to work, or go from two days to three days and it is largely driven by selfishness. I never hear these men saying "What more can i do round the house to help you juggle your job and home stuff"
or "Great. I can cut back my hours now that you are earning". Strange that.

Once kids comes along it is a zero sum game and hours taken up by working are hours away from him and domestic stuff.

But it is good he has voiced his opposition and is not just sulking in the corner or going to the pub every evening. It is a good basis for a conversation where you both can give a bit of ground and restructure your lives in a way that suits the new reality. After all, having a wife with a successful business does have its upside -- eg entire responsibility for earning does not lie with him, and you are happier and as a result of working, so possibly better company to be with than if you were sitting fuming and resentful that all your domestic responsibilities were stopping you fulfilling your ambition. That is a one way ticket to a mid-life crisis

It sounds like one issue is feeling less important/powerful than the man and another issue is feeling bored and needing more stimulation.

Society doesn't seem to respect what women do in the home and this is wrong. I know in myself that it is SUCH an important job but feel I have to fight with the view I pick up from society that leaks into my head that it is a demeaning and subservient job.

People soon 'miss' it if you neglect the housework/childcare a bit and they get arsey about it like Robeena's DH don't they! So they should bloody well appreciate it more when you DO do it shouldn't they!

Being a SAHM can feel like a less powerful role than being the one who earns all the money because people seem to feel that the one who has money and pays for everything is the powerful one. Are they really though? When I think about MIL, OMG, SHE is the powerful one even though she never earned the money. She is so in charge and tells everyone what to do and they listen to her and do it! She keeps her house lovely and cooks lovely meals and seems to somehow 'command' appreciation through how good she is at it! Her views on things really count to DH and his brothers! She is not thought of as inferior at all!

I'm grinning at an image that came into my head of imagining saying to DH "You get out there in the cold and go and earn some money to pay for what me and the kids want. We demand that you provide what we want", like he is being subservient to US and working for us (which actually he IS working for us).

I think there are lots of women who 'OVERwork' by doing a million different things because they want to feel (and others to feel) that they are doing just as much as their DHs and are just as important. If society didn't overlook the importance of traditional women's tasks then they wouldn't have to!

Lots of people do find 'traditional women's tasks' really boring. And you might feel you don't have much to talk about which people would find interesting ("eg. I had to load the dishwasher 3 times today"). It's not going to make you feel very 'noticed' is it! This is the main reason I can understand for getting a job if you don't financially need to, for the stimulation. In my case I haven't got a job because I don't feel there is a job I could get which I would truly like/enjoy. But if I'm honest, if I didn't have my hobbies I think I would feel that motherhood/housewifedom wasn't enough to make me feel excited by life. And if you are bored and feel 'dull' from not feeling much about your life, you aren't going to be a very happy mother/wife/friend etc to be around and not much fun, and probably less good at it because you don't feel much motivation. I feel quite lucky that I've got 'hobbies' that I really enjoy doing and make me feel stimulated and passionate and 'turned on to life'. Lots of people don't really have hobbies, eg my DH, because they haven't discovered things they like doing which make them feel stimulated like this, but he does feel stimulated by his job. It's a really hard job and horrible for him lots of the time but he feels 'alive' doing it at least. So I can see why if you don't have hobbies you would want to get a job, and then the job is your 'hobby'.

If you have a job taking up your time so you can't get all the housework done without overworking then what the hell is wrong with paying someone else to do it! You aren't working any less hard, you are working for the money to pay the other person to do it! I think we are too worried about people thinking we are lazy! We are a modern society of workaholics! Other things are important too, like your relationships! People 'want it all' but do they want this part of life (relationships) less than work? I just can't see what is wrong with paying someone to do some of your housework so you can have some time for you and your relationships. You don't have to overwork to feel you have worked hard enough to be important. You are important to the people in your life who like spending time with you. Spending time with you is one of the things that is important about you to them. Maybe that is the MOST important thing (about you) to them!

We always seem to want to do more and be more but how contented and happy would you feel if you felt you were enough just the way you are and felt free to just enjoy what you have and what you are right now?

OrdinarySAHM: while childcare is not demeaning, housework is shitwork. It's not fulfilling, it's not a job, it's not a vocation. It's stuff that had to be done, sure, but the idea that domesticitiy is in itself 'fulfilling' for women is bullshit put about by men who want to not have to do the shitwork themselves, end of.
Remember, when anyone says anything is special, sacred and natural to one class of people (men, women, particular ethnic group) they either mean that they want to keep it for their own privileged class or convince members of the unprivileged class to do it for them.

"but he doesn't do stuff at weekends as he feels that is family time and he wants to spend it with us."

I don't understand this. Do this mean he does nothing that needs doing around the house, all weekend? Surely a lot of the things that need doing are done for/with the kids anyway?

Can i guess that you are expected to do all the usual "shitwork" (thanks SGB ) at the weekends, despite it being the sacred Family Time?

Some women do seem to enjoy 'home-making' and feel happy and satisfied with that stuff. I have met them. Good for them. But it certainly isn't 'natural' for women in general. I don't hate housework because it's seen as unimportant. I hate it because it is extremely boring and I don't like the process (apart from cooking - a common exception I think).

Personally, I would be very despondant at the thought that my fulfilment in life must be centred around a hobby. If it works for some people then good for them but I really feel it has to be more than a hobby - maybe the op feels that too. I need my job to be also my hobby, i.e. I need to like my work.

This is all about 'feeling alive' though, isn't it? That you are actually living and not just going through the motions.

I really can't beleive some of the posts I am reading here. YES, you have the right to work. YES you have the right to have other fulfilling activities in a day than looking after the house & children.

WHO gave men the right to happily go to work everyday and enjoy fulfilling/demanding/exciting activities at work while, because we are mothers, we should find ironing/cleaning etc. fulfilling ?

I totally agree that you need childcare, I also think that you are heading for a big burnout, you need to watch yourself.

I feel that your DH does not realise everything you've done. I suggest: you let him do what you do everyday for a week (he takes a week of work), and everyday you leave the house and come back at the same times than he usually does in a working week. Then at the end of the week, you both sit down and discuss... you might well find that he might have a slightly different vision of your exciting domestic life!

I hold an excecutive position, I also love my children but I need both in my life. If you stop working you might also loose a vision of yourself. A happy life is a balance of your family life, job, your love for your husband, and your love for yourself. Sorry if I have been abrupt. Good luck

Not all men 'happily go to work', some men dread going to work and find their jobs really hard and feel the pressure of providing for the family. With people losing their jobs all over the place there is pressure on them to perform and not complain about anything in case they lose their jobs when they need the money. I don't envy this situation. I'm so relieved I don't have to do it that I'm happy to get on with all the shit?work (I don't find it THAT bad!) without complaining. DH willingly earns all the money and doesn't mind me having all the time I want with the kids, seeing friends during the day, and having time to do my hobbies. By the time he has finished work he is too tired to have hobbies or socialise.

...and I don't want to feel pressured that unless I get a career as well as looking after the kids then I'm nothing! I feel this pressure more from women than men!

I agree that there are many shit jobs out there and I don't envy anyone, of any sex, who has a shitty, depressing job. But honestly, for me, housekeeping is right up there among shitty jobs. I'd sooner work and pay soemone else to do it. Unfortunately, at the moment I don't earn enough so rather like the op, I try to do both, and share something of her frustration.