Dh not coping with ds1

[Snowfun]

Where do I start? I have had problems with dh and his anger management issues for a while. He can be a loving caring husband and father to my 2 ds. He also gets incredibly stressed over things and just loses it.

THings came to a head about a week before Christmas. He came in from work and I had just out the dc to bed. I admit I was tired and I was sitting down on the settee despite the fact that not all the toys had been put away. He put the shopping that he had bought on his way home from work down in the middle of the room and went ballistic that I had sat down despite me not finishing tidying. Anyway I am ashamed to say I snapped and picked up the milk carton that he had left in the living room and threw it across the room. He went crazy and threw it at my face. I had milkon my face and hair and he was still going crazy. I dialed 999 at that point and as soon as I did it regreted it but it was too late. Police came and told my dh to spend the night away so things could calm down. He stayed round him mums which was terrible as they constantly rang. His mum had a go at me for ringing the police and she continued to ring the next morning!

Anyway he came home the next day and he said it was a wake up call and he would change. However he still keeps getting stressed and my ds1 aged 4 is picking up on things. He has started getting aggressive and hitting kicking even biting me when he thing aren't going his way. I have tried talking to him time out but nothing works. Dh just can't cope with it and when he gets like that he shouts aggressively and has smacked him which makes him worse.

My ds thinks the absolute world of his dad they both do. That morning when he wasn't there I told him he was working early when they asked after him and they talked about him constantly I felt so guilty. He wanted to see the boys before going to work but I thought it best not to as it would confuse them. Next thing I know his mum rang to ask why won't I let him see the boys.

I have tried to explainn to dh that its his aggressive and angry manner that is making ds aggressive and he won't accept he said that he ought to behave himself and he needs to be told. I can't see a way forward this.

my ex dh went on several anger management courses. none of them worked,he's in fact worse than ever these days and now facing a prison sentence i'm told!

anger management will only work if someone desperately wants to change themselves

[oh sorry, read the brackets wrong(!) - yes, I am afraid I agree with SGB on that issue]

Snow, anger management isn't needed

Does he fly off the handle at his boss? at a waiter that takes a bit long to bring his dinner? at the postman when he delivers late?

No?

Then he is in total and utter control of his anger - he doesn't need help to control himself. He needs help to stop abusing his position in the family and thus abusing you and the kids.

There are courses for perps, but they'll need to realise what they do first

I've seen Lundy Bancroft's book; Why does he do that, suggested on here a lot - you could get it at the library

snow, this might be useful

oh ps, it certainly isn't an exhaustive list, so don't think that if you get the 0-17 you are perfectly safe.

I'd say from what I've read, you are NOT safe and he is escalating.

He's moved on from you when you stuck up for yourself to the kids.

Please remember the kids need someone to stick up for them.....

I was in your situation. You don't quite understand this yet but your situation is this.

Your 4 year old is being abused and by continuing with the relationship with the person who abuses him, you are complicit in his abuse.

He has to stand by and watch someone hit his mummy. And you, his mother, the one person in his life who could make this stop - you are choosing not to.

Whatever reasons you have, they aren't good enough.

It's not your fault you and your children are being hit. It IS your fault that you refuse to take action because of some misplaced sense of propriety. They have nice bedrooms, but an abusive cunt of a father who, by your own admission, needs someone to stand between him and them so he doesn't batter them.

Tjhe social services will not take your children aay unless you are seen to do fuck all about it. However, the police are not the only line to the social services. Your son could quite easily go to school or nursery and say "My daddy throws things at mummy. He hits mummy. He hits me. He shouts at me to eat NOW. Mummy has to stop him hitting and shouting at me"

And the teacher will see this as a child protection issue. Because it IS a child protection issue. YOUR CHILDREN ARE AT RISK. Please, please act.

My dh threw something at me when my ds were asleep in their beds so they have not seen that. Also my h does not hit me yes he shouts loudly and things get out of control but my ds have never ever seen him hit me. Also my h has never battered my ds. He has "smacked" my ds1 when he is in the heat of a situation with ds1 and I do not agree with it and tell him so every time. I also try to intervene and take ds away from the situation before it escalates that far. The police went up and saw my boys sleeping in their beds and they said they believed me to be a good mother and h to be a good father and it would not be reported to social sevices.

Have fun wondering how often you will have to intervene, or what would happen if you don't.

These situations escalate. They just DO. Believe us, we've been there. Nobody decided to start a relationship with a man who would abuse them.

Your son is already being affected by the tension and violence present in his home life. You know that by his comment of who is allowed to hit who. He thinks that Daddies are allowed to hit whoever they please. He's going to carry on believing this for the rest of his life unless you act.

that's ok then....

Women's aid list domestic violence as including

Threats: making angry gestures (smacking), using physical size to intimidate (eat now), shouting you down, destroying your possessions, breaking things, punching walls

Destructive criticism and verbal abuse: shouting/mocking/accusing/name calling/verbally threatening

Harassment: following you, checking up on you, opening your mail, repeatedly checking to see who has telephoned you, embarrassing you in public.

Physical violence: punching, slapping, hitting, biting, pinching, kicking, pulling hair out, pushing, shoving, burning, strangling (add in smacking)

Denial: saying the abuse doesn't happen, saying you caused the abusive behaviour, being publicly gentle and patient, crying and begging for forgiveness, saying it will never happen again.

(not all of those will apply. Other things not listed will apply. It is just for illustrative purposes)

Please help your children.

Sleeping children do not make abuse dissolve.

Having to remove them / placate them means you are walking on eggshells.

That Is Not Right.

Snowfun if you accept that you probably can't change him, what outcome is now open to you?

I agree with many of the posters here that it will get worse and you have to decide at what point you will leave?

I have personal experience so similar to what you are experiencing, occasionally violent but more mentally abusive. It gets worse believe me as time goes on.

My son is angry at me now for putting up with it for so long (he was 3 when I finally called the police to get him out of the house). My ex-dh of 5 years STILL feels he can act this way and he's been on many counselling courses as he was a councellor himself - and the more training he got the more control he thought he could have.

grumpy.....i also left it too long to get out. my dd's have memories,which haven't faded. they are now teens and detest their father....they saw and heard too much,and experienced some themselves....his anger,temper tantrums,smacking them....and things i didnt know about which happened when i popped out!!

if only i could go back and escape sooner!!

ILT and Snowfun my DS was acting in just the way you descirbe, hitting me, biting me etc. and I took him to a specialist to either diagnose ADS or to help me cope. She talked to him and he said, 'well I'm just doing what daddy does, I do what I want then say sorry after'.

When I told my ex-dh this he was thrown as he has lived his whole life doing exactly that (and still does).

The children now see him at the contact centre as DS1 is terified of being left alone with him, or he'll be shouted at or talked at. I'm not looking forward to the impending court case for 'proper' contact, but I've promised that I won't make them go if they don't want to.

i'm nearly at the end of contact case grumpy.....my ex has ended up with our 2 dd's refusing any contact at all,which judge is happy with. 2 ds's aged 7 and 11. cafcass have recommended once a fortnight phone contact only. no contact centre as his behaviour has got worse. am going to refuse the phone calls. at least try to. he never sticks to anything. will only mess them about.

am not the scared little doormat i once was....

ILT my two are nearly 5 and 8 so not sure if ds1's opinion will count for much, but I shall try. The boys like to see him, they just want to have someone around who will step in and stop any shouting (which ex-MIL doesn't).

Ex-dh calls nearly every night and the boys won't pick up the phone. He used to call in the morning too, drove me insane.

I know it all sounds very negative Snowfun, but eventually I realised that trying to promote a relationship with someone who is like this doesn't benefit the chidren in any way. My boys are happy, confident and very well rounded now. Ds1 describes his dad as a confidence sucker - it's heart breaking.

I wish so much I had never started this thread. I only told you my dh's bad side and never mentioned the good times or his lovely side. This morning he was outside playing outside in the snow with our 2 and 4 year old and they were having such a great time I thought how could I even contemplate taking him away from this. I think maybe it was the fact that at Christmas everyone is thrown together and now ds1 has got back to his preschool routine everything seems to have calmed down.

Snowfun - I think there are several women on these threads like you at the moment, and some like you have, seem to turn on the people who are trying to support you and to point out the realities of the situation. I admit your situation does not seem as extreme as some of the others, but I think there is little doubt as others have said, that you are living with a very controlling man (on your own admission)and that there is an element of abuse in the relationship.

I think it is also true that your children are growing up with a role model who is controlling and bullying and this will have an adverse affect on them. The aggression is already showing in your 4 year old and will get worse as he gets older. If you stay together while the children grow up, they too will stand a good chance of becoming controlling, angry men and the cyle will repeat itself.

OK so your H and the kids are having a good time in the snow - controlling/abusive men are not like that all the time - just some of the time. Thing is you will never know when the next crisis is going to occur and the unpredictability is very stressful.

I'm sorry but I think it's unfair to start a thread like this and when people take the time to support you, to become defensive and
say you wish you had never started the thread.

Ah well - good luck snowfun - I think you are going to need it.

oh snowfun. The truth is, his good side doesn't matter!

He could be Ghandi in his spare time and it wouldn't make a difference!¬

I wish you luck too Snowfun and hope the situation changes for you.

I'm sorry if I offended you by my previous comments. I do want the situation to change I want my dh to change and for my children to grow up living with 2 parents who are committed to bringing them up as well balanced happy confident children and eventually adults. That is what I want more than anything.

I was bought up that marriage should be forever and when I got married I meant every word of marriage vows. Nobody knows the extent of how my dh has controlled me over the years. He is not like that to the outside world and people would be shocked. My parents especially my mum probably my mum knows more than anyone else. She wants dh to change aswell and has suggested I try to get mil on my side by telling her everything in the hope she will talk some sense into him and perhaps persuade him to get help as he is close to his mum.

None of my friends at my church that I have been in involved with for over 20 years know. I was bought up in that church and so many people there have known me since I was a small child. I don't know if I would get any support there or not as I have never known anyone there to have left there spouses and continue to attend as divorce etc is just so rare even frowned upon in our church. I feel so alone and just want the situation to change.

I don't think that a man that controlling can be changed by having someone "talk some sense into him". You are dreaming if you think it can be resolved that easily and your mother should be ashamed of herself! The only thing she should be doing is housing you while you find somewhere else, or helping you chuck him out! What sort of person reacts the way your mother has when she knows her daughter is being abused and controlled?

The situation will not change by itself. It's appealing to stay put and hope that magically everything will get better. It's not going to happen. This is your life. It's happening now. You either do something about it, or find yourself in this situation in 5 years time with 2 damaged boys

He is who he is
People can change, but only if they truly regret their behaviour and are extremely committed to lots of therapy and work to work out why they act that way, and to change it. A man who thinks there is nothing wrong with ordering you around like an employee, shouting and threatening you, and doing the same to his children, will not change

I'm very sorry to say this but your sons are being damaged every day that they live with this. The fact that they dote on their daddy is almost worse as they will emulate his behaviour even more.

You are responsible for their happiness and for giving them a decent upbringing. They aren't getting that now, are they? Truly, is this the upbringing you wanted for your children?

Boys who grow up seeing daddy abuse mummy and believing that violence is acceptable only get worse. They will probably grow up being abusive to you and later to their partners. Will you be 'talking sense into them' then? The damage will be done. Lessons learnt in childhood do not get unlearnt with a talking to.

I understand that your community may not approve of divorce but believe me decent people (christian or otherwise) do not expect women and children to live with violence and abuse. If they reject you there are other churches, inclusive, supportive churches who would not turn their backs on you.

This is an incredibly sad and frustrating thread to read. The most terrible thing is, a lot of regulars on MN have heard it all before, and will hear it again:

The description os abusive behaviour

The outpouring of support and advice on how to be safe

The backtracking by the OP as she hurries to list her partners good points

Peoples slow realization that the OP has little interest in walking away from the relationship, no matter how abusive and damaging it is to her and her children.

It's really really sad and incredibly depressing. I can list the womans aid website or phone number, and can mention some excellent books you simply must read like the one by Lundy Bancroft. Yet the simple fact is, leaving an abuser is a tortuous and drawn out process, the start of which is realizing that they are abusive and will never change. OP, it sounds like you are not quite there yet, but I hope with all my heart you will soon understand that there is nothing you can do for people like that, and that you have to protect yourself and your children, rather than hanging around waiting for the fruit machine to pay out and your partners hidden potential to be realized.

It will never happen. It will only get worse. But you have to realize that for yourself and really believe it: not just hear it but SEE it.

I hope that time is not far off.

It's a very difficult dilemma, that. Of course marriage is supposed to be for life; I assume the words you spoke in church are pretty similar to the ones I did and you wouldn't say them unless you meant them at the time.

When I had set the wheels of divorce in motion, XH said to me "you made a promise in church". I regarded that particular attempt to guilt-trip me as pathetic. Getting married does not entitle you to trample on another person for the rest of your life.

One of the beautiful things about the marriage vows is the promise of being there for each other whatever life throws at you both. You make those vows to each other, not in a vacuum. It's a contract, a two-way obligation. If his response to what life throws at him is to throw things at you - signally failing to love, cherish or any other thing he has promised in the sight of God and man - then the contract breaks down. I don't know whether the church you attend would look at it this way and I certainly don't mean to demean anyone's faith, but to me any other interpretation is impossible.

That of course is just about two people. When you have children the imperative is to raise them to the best of your ability, protect them from harm and set them a good example to grow up with. That is not just a fundamental law of survival, it's important to most religions too. Any right-thinking mother should be prepared (figuratively of course, in these civilised times!) to tear the eyes out of anyone sooner than let them harm her child; surely that must include even their own father if he becomes a danger to them. That is far, far more important than anything else you have promised or than any community that might look askance at you.

dont forget HE made vows too.....something along the lines of to 'love and to cherish'.....

i actually think that school or nursery will pick up on this,as your ds is displaying aggression,which will maybe worsen. i think this is inevitable and no doubt social services/child protection will be called.

its a shame you cant do something now tho,before it gets to that stage.

I'm very sorry that ppl around you are not more supportive; his mother sounds as aggressive as he is! It must shake your confidence in your own judgement that they think you must appease his awful conduct and yet, it's clear from what you post, you know in your heart of hearts that dh's behaviour is NOT acceptable, and that what has prompted you to seek advice is not protection for yourself, but for the harm his aggression does your children, who need your protection the most.

I know others are saying leave him but you are resistant as you still see good in him.

So, what are you to do? First, you don't have the power to make dh change, he must want to do that himself.

But you can hold up a mirror to him. You can challenge his behaviour and say he wouldn't behave that way to a work colleague, another family member or the postman, so why does he think he can behave that way to the ppl he is meant to love the most? Have zero tolerance for any disparaging comment or action - I would pick up on everything so he can see how ingrained his derogatory comments have become. If he explodes or it escalates, yes, phone the police again. He, family and outsiders need to see the seriousness of this and he also needs to learn you are no pushover but a lioness when it comes to the children.

And what about approaching the pastoral side of the church? And at least talking to Women's Aid for their advice and practical advice - knowledge is after all power. The more RL support and help you can get, rather than keeping it hidden behind closed doors as dh relies on, can only bolster your confidence.

Best wishes.