Can I offer some advice for anyone struggling with the aftermath of their partners affair...

[StirlingInDaSnowDrift]

Over two years ago I found out about my h's affair and, in the early days, as you may imagine, I was distraught.

A friend advised that I keep a journal and write in it whenever I felt like it. It was a massive help and to date I have filled a whole note book. It is sort of like downloading everything in your head. It gives you a chance to reflect on what has happened and, sometimes, put things into perspective.

I gave up on our marriage at the beginning of last year but, because h lost his job (directly because of the affair) we decided to carry on as normal in the house with the dc until he got another job. He is still looking for another job.

He now wants to give our marriage another chance and I was starting to feel unreasonable about not wanting to. But I went out on my own yesterday, took the train to Edinburgh to do some well deserved sale shopping and I took my journal with me (I hadn't written it it since giving up). I read through what was in there and amazingly I had forgotten some of the shit things h had done. It doesn't seem possible, but I had forgotten the night he told me he didn't want to be my husband anymore then turned over and went to slepp, leaving me sobbing.

I had forgotten the day he told me he would rather leave the family than not speak to his ow again. The human mind is a weird thing. Rather selective in what it remembers.

It was a reality check and I no longer feel unreasonable.

So, keep writing - dont forget. It does really help

Thanks for that. Funnily enough I have just started a diary for the same reasons and it does help for all those times you need to remember when your DH has been very unreasonable!

It's so true. I haven't had experience of being cheated on, but I find my mind is very good at simply shelving upsetting things to the point where I forget they've ever happened..

Most of the time I wish my mind was like yours - unfortunately I remember everything!

Stirling gives good advice here though (as she always does anyway!). Writing really helped me, not to remember, but to get it all out when I wasn't speaking to anyone in RL. It also helped my H to see my feelings written down. On one occasion, I also wrote a chronological account of everything that had happened, right up to the point of discovery; the pre-affair distancing period and the affair itself. My DH cried when he saw in black and white how lonely and isolated I had felt during this time.

I really think that now, 16 months on, it is his behaviour before and during the affair that causes us more pain, rather than the affair itself iyswim. My H cannot understand how it was possible for him to treat someone he loved and respected in this way. As I have often said on these boards though, his behaviour really was so aberrant as he had, for 23 years previously, been such a kind and loving man - and he has been the epitomy of that since.

So much of what I used to believe about affairs was turned on its head by my experience. However, one thing remains: the feelings it induces are like a temporary form of insanity. Once they have passed, the real person returns. My H for example, can remember very clearly when his infatuation with OW started to wane - he started to see her in a more objective light and (this is where my good memory comes in handy!) I can virtually pinpoint when that was, because glimpses of the old "him" started coming through again.

Stirling, I have been wondering how you are doing. I understand that your journal has reminded you of how awful he became, but is his plea to re-commit to your marriage backed up by other behaviour? Maybe I'm wrong, but I always got the impression that you weren't convinced before that he was truly sorry and that it was this, rather than the affair itself, that caused you to call time on the marriage. I'd be interested in whether you really do feel it's too late and also whether you've told him this?

You are right Stirling - reading through old writing brings everything back. I remember the emotions well but not always 'things' if you see what I mean. Writing for me serves another purpose. I am beginining to feel as though I am mad. Husband keeps telling me he is trying and making an effort but I just don't see it. Had a bit of a wake up call this morning when I walked with a friend who asked why my husband had been a bit grumpy over the holidays. My husband had all but convinced me it was all in my mind and that he had actually been sociable etc. It sums it up really, he thinks all is well, he is home and staying but I am unhappy. I am taking ADs and he sees that as a failure. It is all so hard - I should write this in my journal I think.

MN has been my journal over the past months - only last week I pulled up all my threads from the last year and with renewed certainty have begun to push toward my new single life in the clear knowledge that I tried, but he was a shit...

Recording thoughts in any way is vitally important imo. I can remember the dates and the conversations on those dates but my feelings and ferocity of emotion about them fade

Sorry - went out with the dc to the cinema.

Thanks for the comments. I am glad that writing things down is a help to others too. I always felt like something had lifted off my shoulders after writing. A sort of therapy.

WhenwillI - It is interesting that you have let your h read your journal. I have thought about that but can't see how it would help. He wallows in his own self pity as it is. If he read about my feelings I think it would actually make him feel a bit more sorry for himself. I feel pretty embarrassed that I actually didn't know him very well after 14 yrs of marriage. I think I know him a lot better now after the last 2 yrs and I dont like what I see.

He said in November (exactly 2 yrs since the discovery) that he was sorry for what he had done and was willing to try anything to make our marriage work. I realise at the moment that he is depressed because he is out of work and we are getting to the point where we will be struggling soon if he doesn't get another job (has an interview next wk but things have been very quiet).

Maybe I am being unreasonable but I think that if he wanted to start making a difference he could just arrange to go for a drink, away from the house, for a chat but that never happens. He drives me mad because once the dc are in bed he is either on his computer or staring at the tv. I am only 45 ffs, I dont want this existance for the rest of my life.

I gave him a copy of the Relate book "staying together" to give him an idea of what he needs to do but, as far as I am aware, he has read one chapter since November. Doesn't bode well, does it??

Thanks for the update Stirling, I have been wondering how you are. It's a shame he didn't read the book - and I'm conflicted on this one. On the one hand, if he's said he would do anything to make the marriage work, he's fallen at the first hurdle, assuming you made it clear that reading the book was important to you. You said he hasn't read more than chapter as far as you're aware. Have you asked him about it? On the other hand, it could be that reading something like this doesn't resonate for him as much as a real-life discussion about his relationship.

I showed DH my journal, because he's a voracious reader and I knew the written word would be powerful. However, I know you and I both found that "Not Just Friends" book helpful. My DH read that too, but something interesting about his personality cropped up through his reaction to it. He thought it was an excellent book and agreed wholeheartedly with most of it.

We probably most closely identified with the story about Rachel and Ralph, but because there were a couple of dissimilarities (in our case, H hadn't fallen in love with OW and he says at no point did he ever think he'd rather be with OW long-term) it didn't resonate for him very powerfully. His reaction made sense of another situation that had baffled me.

Just before he embarked upon his affair (when they were at the Just Good Friends stage) another couple with whom we were close split up, because of infidelity. In this case, the unfaithful partner used the affair as an exit strategy from the marriage, but the pain of our betrayed friend and the effects on their children were raw and horrifying. I simply couldn't understand how my DH had seen all this on a daily basis and had gone on to have an affair. He said he couldn't relate one to the other - he wasn't ever going to leave and so he told himself this was different. It seemed crazy to me, but his reaction to the book confirmed that for my H, he can only relate to what's happening in our relationship, or a virtually identical set of circumstances.

It could be your H cannot relate to generic self-help either - he needs it to be specific and tailored to you both?

What do you want now Stirling, I mean really want? Can you write here what you'd need to make this marriage work? It might help you make sense of your own emotions if you wrote that all down.

Also, I can't remember if you went to counselling. Either way, I wonder whether some counselling might help you both now?

It sounds like it took him two years to say sorry properly. Do you have trouble believing him?

I completely understand about being 45 and wanting more than this - we are the same age . I wouldn't want a life like that either, but it can change and it seems to me that after 2 years of struggling with this, you might be reaching a catalyst - properly staying together or parting. I can imagine that the enforced limbo you have been in must be awful.

Newname, I'm glad your friend reassured you that you weren't going mad - you're not! As you know, it never seemed to any of us who responded to your posts that your H was truly and properly sorry and I'm relieved you're seeing that now, scary though it must be. I hope the counselling continues to be productive for you and I hope the counsellor will challenge your H on his entitlement to consider you weak for your crutches, when he can't seem to see his infidelity as a more destructive weakness.

Norks, I've been following your other thread and I admire you. You've been dealt an absolutely horrible deck of cards, but I just know you'll win through. I can imagine how re-reading your old posts helps. Mine help me too.

What a wonderful thread. Thank you, posters.

I threw all my old diaries out last year - precisely because they were so full of great, bleeding, emotional wounds that have, as you say, healed over. But they kept me from going completely mad (some would say not ) while the fear, uncertainty & loneliness was going on.

My ex read them (without permission) and saw them as proof of my unreasonableness. He's the one I've since realised is autistic, so it's no surprise (now) he found the emotions unreasonable. Thinking about the diaries has reminded me just how painful that marriage was

Really, I just wanted to back you up in what you say about writing it down. Like posting on here: it helps.

Stirling so glad you feel able to update.

I found/find writing a huge help. I tend to write not only the bad but also the good.

I dont think i would be able to share mine with my h - it is too private and actually i find it hard to read back over some of the early stuff too. I have often wondered if i should destroy it as it has served a purpose but i also want to keep it if i ever feel in doubt as to whether i am doing the 'right' thing.

I dont think i could have 'waited' 2 years for an appology - my h was on his knees begging after just 5 days (i had at that point got a solicitor involved - so it had been a bit longer than that really). Even then i felt it was only just in the nick of time. I think there is a window of oppotunity that is only open for so long. And really is anyone that takes 2 years to say sorry someone you want to have a relationship with. For a lot of people 2 minutes would be too long[grin[.

Well done stirling for getting your own life. I hope for your sake he does move on soon and you can move forward with more ease.

I wrote down everything, and good thing too because some of it was so stupendously bizarre that I think I would have had trouble convincing myself any of it had been said or done if I had tried to go over it mentally afterwards.

Ex apologised right from the start for his infidelity, which was the only thing he ever admitted openly to me without a confrontation. I later found porn of all kinds, then evidence of an OW; one of the DCs found evidence of another man in ex's life. So an apology isn't always what it seems, especially if the infidelity is part of an exit strategy or if the disclosure of infidelity is made to prepare the injured partner for some worse news (in my case, ex had an appointment with a dermatologist coming up in a few days because he had developed a mysterious and persistent rash which he believed, I now strongly suspect, to have been contracted through sex in men's rooms).

I used to do this all the time both good and bad stuff...Shame I didn't do it with Dd's father...!

Slightly different because infidelity wasn't the problem, but I kept diaries of XH's behaviour as advised by the solicitor, for about 18 months. I felt a bit peculiar and sneaky for doing it, but I do have a very poor memory so it was important for the proceedings that I had a record. And then I found out he had been keeping notes on me for the last 23 years. That creeped me out big-time.

Annie thats a bit amazing

Thanks for this thread. I do believe that my H has has a masssive mid life crisis and that leed to the affair.

We have been separated 8 months. He hasnt been really sorry and has gone back to OW.

But recently his conscience has begun to be a bit troubleed. We'll see where that leads. And its sad he haas destroyed a lot my feeling for him. I wish hed sorted himself out faster, The only thing is that Im much more sorted in my head now. I would have been desperate for him to come back before but no I would be able to look after my own interests more in any reconciliation so have to take some positives from that.

I didnt journal but posted a lot on another forum and glad I have those posts to refer to - it does help to get perspective.

Glad to get an update from you Stirling!

Right, sorry been at work, but lots of great posts here - Thanks

whenwilli, can I answer your post from this morning - I really dont think that reading the book is that important but I suppose it just shows me how committed he may be to making repairs.

I could look at this situation in two different ways. I could say that he should be doing everything to try to repair some of the damage that he caused, but I also realise that he is depressed at the moment. He gave up his £60k a year job in the belief he could easily get another - but he picked an incredibly bad time to do it and so has been out of work for more than 12 months now. He is feeling very low and maybe that is why he is unable to fix things.

On the other hand I think that if it was me and I was desperate to keep my h, then I would like to think I would do anything to try to make things right.

to be continued...

ok, in answer to the question "What do you want now Stirling, I mean really want? Can you write here what you'd need to make this marriage work?"

Sadly, right now, if I could have anything, it would be to be in my own house, with my dc, and no man to worry about. As long as h spent time with the dc and didn't make them feel like they were missing out on any family life, then that is what I want.

Kids make a massive difference to decisions. I know for a fact that I would have walked away 12 months ago. I am still here because of the dc, no other reason.

If h had still been employed, then I would have asked for a separation/divorce 12 months ago. As it is, I dont see how we could split the current house and get 2 separate properties whilst h is unemployed. I will be in a better position when he has a job.

At the risk of writing an epic post, there are 3 events that made me feel like this.

1. In Dec 08, after 13 months of me trying to make the marriage work (very one-sided) I found out that on h's last visit to Budapest (where ow lives) he took her out to dinner. The place he took her to was a place that he had taken me to when I visited (post-affair). He assured me at the time (Jan 08)that he had never taken her there as I said I wouldn't step over the doorstep if he had. But after a massive row in Dec 08, he admitted that he had taken her there before I visited. I felt sick and told him if he contacted her again it was over between us - "fair enough" he said!!

1. Early Jan 09 I found a text on his phone, from him to her "I love and miss you more than I can bear"

1. Feb 09 - I looked at him computer history and found that he had been on the Hungarian version of the Interflora website and had selected the largest bunch of red roses and put them in his shopping basket (I couldn't work out if he had paid for them or not but I didn't care by then).

A part of me died then.

Funnily enough, I can imagine being friends now but no more. I do not want him to touch me and I definitely feel dead inside.

I look around when I am out and see people in love and feel sorry for them because one day they will be hurt. I dont imagine it can end any other way.

Happywoman - so nice to hear from you. I understand you when you say you couldn't share what you have written. Indeed, you cant bear to read it yourself sometimes. There is definitely parts of my journal I dont want to read. I dont want to see how sad and vunerable I was - and he still treated me like shit.

I am raising a glass to us all - come on 2010, do your worst, 'cause you wont beat me.

Chink! Chink!

x

Hi anothermum - so glad to hear from you.

You are sounding so much stronger yourself. It is true, isn't it, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

How is your life going? Are you on your own with your dc? Is your stbxh with the ow or did that fizzle out?

My worst nightmare, years ago, was ending up with a broken marriage, and the dc upset. But I see now that they will be happier if I am happy and I hope that will be soon.

Chink Grace

I understand why you threw away your diaries. I am sure I will one day. At the moment I dont want to forget what happened and why I am like this.

My dear Dad had a particular toast...

'Here's to those who wish us well and those who don't can go to hell!!!' Kinda sums it up doesn't it?!

Very true, solo

Thanks for the updates ladies - I really admire you both. It seems often the way that these men realise belatedly that they actually want what they threw away so carelessly, but by then it is too late. Having read your stories, I completely understand why, too. That text you saw Stirling, was probably your "enough" moment - I can only imagine the fresh pain that created.

What I hope most of all for you both is that you will have peace of mind in the future, whether that might hold a new partner who can restore your faith in human relationships - or not.

Isn't this madness? These men are now realising what gems they have lost and deep down, they probably realise they will never find anyone else as perfect for them - or as kind and thoroughly decent as you both are. This is why I suspect these second relationships often don't stand the test of time - it must always be nagging in the back of their minds that they only achieved happiness at someone else's expense and I think that fundamentally, we have a resistance to people who can live with hurting others. I've often heard of such couples coming to despise each other - they see their own selfishness reflected in the other.

WWIFN so true your last paragraph. Thats the one bit I will never get my head around - how my H and OW could be so selfish and at same time knowingly damage the lives of at the time a 1 year old baby and a 3 year old. (my OW knew the children quite well)

That's something I find vile as well. OW had met our dcs and had even bought presents for them in her time. Meanwhile, both OW and H were happy to chat for hours on the phone while her 8 year old roamed round her small flat and could hear every word - apparently she'd get stroppy if the child interrupted her to ask for food etc.

She must have even heard her mum saying how she didn't love her husband and wanted to leave. How lovely, particularly as both parties were oh so keen, when presenting their best points to each other in emails, to highlight what loving parents they were. The mind boggles.