Terrible relationship with my sister - can anyone help me decide what to do!

[SloughofDespond]

I'm feeling like the worst bitch on earth again after having been barely able to stay civil to my sister over christmas.

We invited her and wanted her to come because the DC like to see her, also she traditionally comes (she's single) and I would feel bad not asking her. So I feel I am setting this up for myself but I don't know how to change it.

The problem is (IMO) we have a horribly unequal relationship in which she seems to try to suck up to me and get my approval and please me, and I find this unbearable and pull back and end up going quiet and sullen. I'm slightly older and it feels like all my life she has had lower self-esteem, been convinced that I'm better than her, needed my approval and unconditional support, and at the same time been resentful of me for being "better than her" at things. This is now crystallized even more because I have a DH and DC and she has trouble maintaining a relationship. To make matters even worse, I'm pg again and she is getting to the age where if she doesn't settle down she may well now not have DC, so I think her underlying resentment is at boiling point, while I'm hormonal and emotionally on edge.

I only have to look at her to start feeling guilty and responsible that I have what she wants and that she's not very happy. Sometimes she lets slip her resentment e.g. when I had my first DC the first thing she said to me afterwards was how unfair it was on her and how did I think I'd made her feel. But most of the time what she does is say how wonderful I am and suck up to me. In the past she's tried to pay for everything until I made it clear it made me really uncomfortable. More recently she's become "helpful" to the point of madness, e.g. trying to do every tiny little thing for me, hold my coat, pick up my handbag for me in a cafe, insist on taking things out of my hands if I'm having the slightest difficulty etc. - it drives me MAD. We ask her to help entertain the DC in order to give her something to do and let her feel useful, but I also find this difficult as she tries to take over the discipline side and it feels like she's trying to compete with me to be better at it, IYSWIM. I think this all makes me so angry as it's not about what I want at all - it's not helpful - it's about her neediness and desperation to be approved of. I find it all so fake and infuriating. And I'm now so oversensitive about it that if I sense even a whiff of neediness I clam up.

I get so frustrated and angry to the point where I really cannot bear her presence and have to force myself to be polite. I am not honest with her about it, for two reasons - 1) she can really blow up/get upset if she feels criticised, and 2) on the other hand it may give her an excuse to get all "cosy" and "let's have a heart to heart chat" with me and I would feel so crowded and needed I would push her away even more.

Reading this I can see that while she has some issues, it's also me that has a huge problem here as I can't just let this all wash over me, and get so wound up that by my coldness I must really hurt her. She asks DH what's up with me so I know she notices (he tells her I'm just a bit tired or some other excuse, but it's not fair on him to go through all this either).

I really feel like I can't bear her neediness and would love it if I never saw her again. But she's close to the DC and surely I should be able to work this out? I just can't carry on like this.

I'm on the point of emailing her and explaining it all - then at least I could say sorry and that I don't mean to hurt her. But DH thinks email is not a good idea as it can be misinterpreted etc. But the thought of face-to-face or even phone is too terrifying - I'd feel so out of control and overwhelmed if she got emotional and needy. DH also thought maybe I could suggest some kind of family counselling, like relate but for siblings - maybe that would help? Or could counselling on my own help? Or can anyone give me some perspective and help me just not care so much?

Thanks if you've read all this.

You would love it if you never saw her again?

Blimey, it's hard not to feel sorry for her

she sounds a bit like my mil, she really grates on me but I don't see her too often and that helps

I don't have much to offer but I am sure that email is a bad idea - I posted here the other day on the point of writing an email to somebody and am so glad I didn't. If you can't say it face to face I'm afraid you do need to think about whether and how it can be said at all.

In the short term, would it be usual for you not to see your sister for the next few months until after your baby is born? so at least you have a few months off from each other?

Life is long (we hope) and you are clearly right that she finds seeing you with small children very hard - what a crappy thing to say to you. I think things may calm down as you all get older - I know my mother gets great good out of relationships with her siblings now they are all aged over 70!

I wonder if, in a few months' time, your dh and you can put your heads together and come up with some responses to her needier comments that don't feed that viewpoint? It sounds as if that dynamic is unbearable to you and who can blame you.

Hope some more posters come with better ideas. Best wishes.

I know. I do feel sorry for her. I would like an equal, balanced relationship with her, but as it is, at the moment yes I am feeling I wish I didn't have to deal with her. I do know that's terrible and that's why I'm wondering how I could fix this.

Sorry x-posted with you choosy - thanks for your post, it's helping me to think things through. I don't actually see her that often so it seems even madder that I'm finding it so overwhelming but it may be that it's partly pg hormones and I will calm down eventually.

I am in your sister's position (sort of). I am desperate for a good relationship with my sister but she refuses to acknowldege me the moment it gets 'emotional'. All she can cope with is being a bit matey. She lives on the other side of the world. For her, my problems are a sign of taking over and attention seeking and she can only deal in practical stuff. Please don't tell her what's wrong with her (iyswim) - any suggestion you find her needy or you feel sorry for her may be quite cruel, unintentionally.

grumpypants thank you for posting - can you tell me what you would like your sister to do and why you think she's like that? And why do you want a closer relationship with her? I don't think my sister and I have much in common at all and have very different values, and I would find a "matey" friendship easier but what I don't understand is why my sister doesn't feel the same.

I think you should just tell the truth and go with the flow of the discussion.
You might want to wait till after the baby is born.
But you must deal with it, you might suprise yourself and be able to deal with things better than you think.
It is really good to clear the air, as at the moment she doesn't realise the issues you have.
Your version of events are very different from her version, maybe your seeing her as needy and she is just trying to be helpful!!

Please talk to her, don't build a wall between you both!!!!!

OK, our dad died in our teens and we were quite different anyway (me clever, her pretty and sociable, in the eyes of the tiny world around us) so we would never have been very close. I would like her to ask me how my children are, not my mum. I would like her to reply (even if it kills her!) when I ask a difficult (ie emotional) question. I would like her to email me/ text me about nothing because I see the way my friends know what is going on in their sibling's lives and I am soooo jealous!
However, I am like your sister because I want the sister thing I see in films/ books so much that she (being not a close to people person)runs a mile, and I get where you are coming from. Last Summer my mum funded a weekend together and when we arrived, she had invited all of her husband's family (who lived where we went) and we played gooseberry to them all. Literally, we had adjoining hotel rooms, and where I had envisaged bonding time, she gave us a few minutes here and there in between huge group get togethers. (We had never met her dh's family). So I feel sympathy for both of you, but just please be kind in what you say (if anything) to her...

Forgot - cd you bear to go for coffee/shopping with her without the kids? So she gets you to herself and you can do nice chatting away from what she doesn't have? (I mean chatting about x-factor, not navel gazing)

I think I would find that hard, gp, but I'm trying to imagine it. I think part of it is that I hate the fakeness and dishonesty (by both of us). If it wasn't that it would hurt her, I would prefer to just talk honestly. But I can't be honest and be kind

I really do appreciate your posts.

Hmmm. Working from the positive, are there any parts of your relationship that do work?

Also I wonder if you can start shifting your traditional Christmas meeting to New Year's, and getting together as a family in the summer instead, so that it's all a bit less intense? Would there be anywhere else she could go at Christmas?

Well as gp says, I can manage if it's "matey", and DH helps a lot - the three of us can get on OK chatting about shallow things and I can sustain it for a day or so. But then the excessive trying to please and trying to help start to get on top of me. And then I think the more I seem annoyed, the more she tries to bow and scrape and subjugate herself to please me, and it's a vicious circle.

She says she is happy to spend christmas alone, but I'm not sure what the truth is because it seems to me that that's part of her martyrishness. OTOH maybe she would rather be alone than feel rejected by me, but it's impossible to tell because everything's conducted on this fake surface level. There's no way she would just come out and say "what I really want is X".

Also, we did want her to come for the DC sake, and I do always swear to myself I'll manage to be nice to her. That's why I feel really bad now - I swore I would manage it, and I didn't.

how about writing a nice thank you card (post Xmas) saying thanks for joining us, you are great with the dcs, it's lovely they have such a fun/cool/kind aunt. I'm not v good at the 'emotional' stuff, but it was lovely to see you, maybe we could do something a bit more grown up soon, fancy a coffee/the cinema/clubbing?

Obv I'm not suggesting you cut and paste the above, but it might convey that you get the things she is good at, acknowledges your not being good at heavy, and moves the focus from the family she misses. BTW I think if she does want what you have it might not all be personal, but is exaggerated by you being sisters iyswim?

I don't know how to help really, I totally get the avoidance of discussion about stuff and I know my sister cannot cope with that, but for me I needed to know she doesn't hate me because then I wonder what I did wrong. However, I realsie (discussions with mum, dh) that I have to deal with how I feel, not her. Good luck, it's not worth falling out forever over so I hope you can get the relationship on the right track.

I'm not sure it is neediness, the stuff you describe in your email just sounds like sibling rivalry with the 2 of you not growing up.
On the other hand if I really disliked my sibling I wouldn't spend Christmas with them, and if I was single would rather spend Christmas alone or with friends than with relatives who disliked me.
You'd have been better telling your sister that her fussing was annoying you rather than resenting it.
I think you either invite people round and are nice to them, or you don't invite them.
Inviting your sister round and then being frosty is just horrid. She was on your territory so wouldn't be acting naturally anyway.
I suspect she meant it when she said she'd rather spend Christmas alone.

I disagree that email is necessarily a bad idea. While tone and language can be frequently misunderstood, I think in this case, that's the lesser of two evils (the other being nothing at all is said and things deteriorate even further).

For some people, a face-to-face discussion has more potential for blowing things up than an email or letter. If both parties are uncomfortable with their 'roles' and discussing how they feel, the resulting awkwardness can easily lead to one (or both) quickly becoming defensive and the discussion descending into a row. An email discussion can avoid all that, because it gives each party a chance to say everything without getting interrupted or wound up. Of course, it's one-sided, so it's always a good idea to start and finish by inviting a response and to apologise for not doing it face to face. Any when you get a reply, always wait several days to digest it before replying to it.

Long before the days of telephones and emails, many people had to maintain close relationships through letters. They are not an intrinsically bad way of communication. They simply require thought about tone and content. If the OP is close to her DH or has some close (and more importantly, honest) friends, she could ask them to read her email before sending it, so that if she's struck a wrong tone or phrased something so that it could be taken the wrong way, she can have that pointed out and take the chance to alter it.

OP knows herself better than anyone and knows if she's capable (or not) of having an open, frank discussion with her sister. If she's not, email is a realistic and sensible alternative in my opinion.

Good luck Slough.

Looking at this from your perspective, Slough.

You feel your sis is both needy, envious and controlling at the same time you are feeling guilty and worried about her.

Does your sister have any close female friends? I was never really that close with my sis, she always had a 'best friend' who seemed to take the role of sister. I also have great friends who are like sisters to me. I get on OK with my sister now we are both in our forties .

I agree with Optimist E-mail could be worth a try, your dh could help you by reading through what you've said. Especially as you are feeling hormonal and emotional.

Also a mediator could be what you both need, it could be a good idea to look at your dh's suggestion. Either way, it's good you are thinking of findng some way of making your relationship work, one of my friends hasn't spoken to her sister for years and I find it sad, life's too short.

They can get on your nerves though!!

I know her actions irritate you to beyond belief, and I totally sympathise with how you are feeling...

However...

I rather think all this seems down to your own guilt and feelings about her. She clearly is desperate to be liked, by you, perhaps by others. If she's like this with others, it'd hint as to why she has troubly maintaining relationships.

So she has issues that are standing in her way.. but none of them are your fault. You have a total and undeniable right to live your life the way you are living it, to get married, to have your family. Really it is not your problem that her life is not working out for her. Let go of the guilt and perhaps you may have more to offer her.

If her constant attentiveness makes your teeth itch, please just tell her. Sure it's going to be a tricky conversation, but she is your sister, and nothing will ever change that. Even if you don't speak for a while, she will still be your sister. Blood IS thicker than water.

Use phrases like 'Please don't take this the wrong way' I would hate to offend you and it'd be the last thing I'd want to do', but sis sometimes this over fussing drives me mental.

Comments like your having had DC and it being unfair on her, are ridiclous and hurtful. You know that, if you'd have said anything to her at the time, she'd have seen it too.

Be brave, be as diplomatic as you can be, but aim for honesty with her. It'll be less frustrating for you and who knows, she may learn something to help her build her self esteem that will mean that she can have a family etc....

New Years Resolution time... to make 2010 the year you sort the issues with your sister and get everything on an even and honest footing.

Slough I totally understand. Actually, I sort of had a similar problem a few years ago. My lil sis moved house to be closer to me. She lived in london, about 10 minutes from her work. But she thought it better to live nearer to me and spend 3 hours commuting every day!!!!

She didn't tell me she was buying a house near mine until it had gone through.

She has no other friends so expected me to be her best friend- which was very suffocating. She cannot maintain any reltionships, unless they are through me. e.g. they come to my house, I feed them, entertain them and she will sit in the corner sponging off. And then she gets jealous, very vocally when she finds out if I have been seeing friends and family without telling her or inviting her. I don't do that on purpose, but I have a dh and a ds and I've been married for a while and don't feel the need to run things past her as she gets very negative about people. I have a large network of friends and a close circle of family that I am consistent with. She is married also, to someone who gives her the younger sibling treatment. He believes we should always involve her, as should the rest of the family. But I decided since ds that I would not have toxic people around me anymore. So I just distanced myself until oneday I stopped returning her calls. It got to the point when she was made reduntant that she was almost living round my house!!!

However, despite this, I miss her. I've just found put that she has spent xmas alone. Her dh is sick of her and went round his mums. She has a serious illness and no one knew. My mum told me. although my mum still hasn't seen her either. I haven't called her yet becuase I know she will not change and I'm happy without her. But I feel guilty. Because I know she doesn't get on with anyone else in the family except me. I have an older sister who I talk to and my lil sis hasn't spoken to her either for years. She has no connection with the family unless it's through me. Why? Why can't she make her own effort? I feel like I'm responsible yet I resent this. Can you really cut someone off? I wish I had not cut her off totally and tried to explain to her that she is suffocating me and I need some space from her. And if your dc likes her, she must be doing something right? sorry this is long

Thank you all for the new messages. I have been thinking and thinking and still feeling that email is the only thing I can manage. I'm worried that if we talk, my real annoyance and complaints will come out and she will just feel attacked. With email I can keep much more control over what I say.

2rebecca - I know! "I think you either invite people round and are nice to them, or you don't invite them.
Inviting your sister round and then being frosty is just horrid." I know! Hence feeling so guilty. I always really resolve to be nice to her and not mind so much about this - then I fail because I am just a terrible actor and if I feel annoyed I cannot fake my way through it. If I could, I would. But then the only other option is to never see her and that would be unfair on DC and very drastic.

To answer other questions, yes she does have friends and yes DC like her. She is very good at being chatty and cheery. We're very different and if we weren't related she definitely wouldn't be my "type", but I don't think she's an awful person - it's just the dynamic between us that's so difficult.

I think I will start to compose an email and see how I get on. Thanks all.

I have a similar relationship with my sister in that I try to be more matey with her than she can give to me. She is also in a relationship wheras I am single and I find it hard (although I do have a dd which is a blessing).
''The problem is (IMO) we have a horribly unequal relationship in which she seems to try to suck up to me and get my approval and please me.''

Mabe she's trying to be nice so as to be accepted but you don't want to be close? Just a thought. This is exactly what I do. I am extra nice to my sis and she distances herself which makes me want her approval even more.

It is of course unreasonable of her to comment on you having dc but mabe you could be more supportive of her plight and bond with her by trying to encourage her to take up new hobbies and try internet dating or speed dating etc. It might make her less needy and improv eher self esteem.

Is there a reason why you push her away? It sounds like a vicious circle in which both of you are to blame.

I also don't see what she has done wrong and why you don't want a relationship with her. So she's single? Never mind.

also mabe she's being nice because she loves you as you are her sisteer. she probably is jealous but she clearly loves you and your kids.

I think it sounds like a viscious circle, she's being needy because she feels like she is pushed away.

I think relate would be a good idea is she'll agree to go with you (not sure how you bring it up)

It's not her being single that I have a problem with - I have single friends who I think are great and feel relaxed with. It's the neediness - and I think the fact that there's such a long history of her being needy and I've reached the end of my rope with it.

I do have a real problem with neediness, can't handle it at all. I grew up with her and other family members being manipulative, needy and emotionally blackmailing on me - I was the oldest and "strong one" who held it all together - and I think I reacted to all that by just turning my back on it and becoming very fiercely independent (which is one reason why overbearing helpfulness does not go down all that well with me!). I actually didn't see my sister for several years when we were younger because it was too much, but we picked things up again.

I don't mind people needing me, as part of normal give and take with friends etc. or of course DC needing me - it's the feeling of guilt that someone is desperate for you to like them and you don't, and that kicked-puppy look in their eyes because you've hurt them by not liking them enough but instead of walking away they come back for more and try to suck up to you even more. I know I sound like a bitch but I can't bear it, it makes me feel trapped and panicky and I think angry, underneath it all.

I did say in the OP that I knew it wasn't just her with the issues

But it is often advised on MN that if you have a needy friend like this, you don't have to keep seeing them. When it's family it's so much harder...

perhaps it is worth you seeing a counsellor to see if you can get to a point where you can let her neediness wash over you?

My other thought is being jokey with her and actually saying "what are the puppy dog eyes for?" point out to her how needy she is coming across and that it doesn't wash with you?