Help me please, Mother moved in, can't talk to sisters, can't get appointment with therapist, save me, Mumsnet...

[eemie]

I've been on Mumsnet for about seven years and most of the people who knew me have long ago fucked off to Moldies, much to my disgust, so I probably count as a newbie now.

We moved to our new house in August, Mum moved in in September.

Since her coming to live with us was first discussed, many many goalposts have been moved, all by her. We ended up going along with what she wanted by a series of defaults.

She has sat back and allowed us to shop, cook & look after her for three and a half months. Tonight for the first time she cooked a meal. We didn't ask her to - we'd stocked up, defrosted the meat etc. but she cooked on her own initiative.

The stew was heavily salted & there were no vegetables. She told dd 'this has more than your five a day' (meaning the carrots, celery etc in the stew).

Then she enjoyed herself complaining that she wanted to put bay leaves in but couldn't find any that met her exacting standards. 'I found some at the back of the drawer (they're in alphabetical order) but they were yukky and they went out of date in October 2008'.

I pointed out the reasons that no harm can come to you from out-of-date freeze-dried bay leaves. She didn't think that was good enough.

'Did you throw them out then? I asked. 'No - I'll save them for you to use - but I wouldn't use them'.

At that point I lost it and said - well you seem quite happy to eat my food.

Sorry, I know this is all petty but I had to clean her house last winter & know how far all standards of hygiene had been left behind. That's the reason I've accepted having to live with her, because I don't think she could have done another winter on her own.

We have little family time now, because of her and because I have to work long hours since my husband was made redundant. And her criticism and undermining of me is constant.

We have code words to signal each other when we need to chill - but it's not enough! Please share your wisdom O wise ones of MN.

And please tell me my daughter's not going to feel like this about me one day...please, please...

I'm reading your post with trepidation and an eye to the future.

How much space of her own does your mum have? Does she have her own sitting room or do you spend all your evenings together, as well as meals? I know it's difficult, but for everybody's sake I think you have to carve out some ground rules, based on mutual respect and as much privacy as you can manage.

Is your mother sprightly enough to babysit occasionally, so that you and your dh can go out?

well I'm not sure what moldies has to do with your mother being a pain, I'm sure

anyhoo

It sounds v tricky and a bit uncomfortable for you and DH

When you say your mum has moved in, does she have a monetary interest in your property?

have you had a proper chat with her about what we used to call house rules when we were teenagers:

being respectful
dividing up chores
drawing up a rota

That kind of thing

Sounds exhausting

eemie,

Why did your Mother move in with you all in the first place, whose idea was it for her to come and live with you?. Actually these arrangements can rarely work out well unless there is full and frank agreement re rules and boundaries on both sides. If one party decides to act unfairly then the whole arrangement breaks down.

Has your Mother ever had a care assessment done by social services?. Being a carer in such a situation as well is very wearing.

If the goalposts have been moved you will have to redefine them with her, she cannot have it all her own way as you have discovered to your cost.

She has a large comfortable bedroom and a sitting room, which isn't exclusive but she has it to herself for 95% of the time.

She contributed nothing to the house purchase. She contributes to the monthly bills.

There was never a chance to carve out ground rules beforehand, we're having to do it as we go along - she dithered about the move for two years and then when she finally made up her mind (after we bought the house) it all happened very quickly.

She's not used to listening to me - she's used to talking at me. If I want to tell her to do something differently, I risk tears, sulks and guilt trips.

She does have good points, I just can't think of any right now.

But surely she´s living with you because she can´t look after herself?

When it was first mooted a couple of years ago I thought we could pool our resources and buy a bigger place. She wanted us to buy a place with an annexe for her but as she didn't sell her house until after we bought, we didn't have enough money.

In between, her brother died and there was serious illness in the family (not her) and her deafness got worse so we were always preoccupied with immediate problems. I knew we should be laying down ground rules but there really was never a good time.

Now she has rewritten history. I heard her telling my friend the other night that I had 'persuaded' her to move in. Apparently it was all my idea.

She's fit, just deaf. But she didn't want to live on her own any more and her house and garden were getting too much for her.

So it was partly for your benefit?

She has sold her house so that you can have somewhere bigger, effectively?

If so, sorry, but I can see why she feels entitled to be looked after!

eemie- firstly, my Gran came to live with us under similar circumstances and it wasn't always easy, but I have certainly NOT grown up feeling similarly about my mum!

Sounds like you are under quite a lot of pressure anyway, what with long work hours etc so bear in mind this might be making you feel more sensitive. (Not excusing her behaviour, of course). Maybe you could play the 'things are tough for us' at the moment card, to suggest she cooks one meal or more a week? All cooking comments will diminish if she is a regular to the cooker herself.

Also, she may be feeling powerless and inadequate at having to lose her independence and so she is trying to regain some self respect by telling others you persuaded her/ being critical of you. Try not to take it personally- maybe look at ways you can alleviate this feeling for her.

I agree with the making of ground rules, maybe she could have a small kitchenette unit in her lounge which could become exclusively hers and it could be agreed she joins you all for one meal a day?

Sorry this is a bit muddled- toddler is chattering in my ear! Hope you can see what I'm getting at.

so it's only been since September?

I would sit her down and tell her it's not working out. The only way to be in this situation is honest. As singalong says, she's probably mourning the loss of her independence and she's only been there a couple of months and I bet it takes some getting used to.

I think you have to decide whether you want it to work out or not. If you do, then you'll have to re-establish the ground rules and if not, then tell her you'll help her find a flat in sheltered accommodation - she might not like it but if you can't manage, you can't manage.

Thing is, surely as time goes on, you'll be expected to look after her? Isn't that the point? I also wonder (as you say her levels of hygiene had already gone) whether she was doing worse than you thought (on her own) and what you are seeing now is exactly how she was already living (iyswim).

Also don't forget that her personality may well change as she gets older - when my gran started suffering from demetia (the very early stages), her personality changed first iyswim.

oh and I don't use out of date herbs but it sounds like she was trying to make a point about asserting her independence - sounds like you two are in a battle for who is queen bee and that she doesn't really want to feel that she needs to be looked after (who would!).

I would make the bedroom and sitting room 100% hers if the layout allows. Put a mini hob and oven in there and she can cook her own meals. Maybe once a week you all eat together.

diddl - boot's on the other leg. We have taken on a mortgage we wouldn't otherwise have needed to afford space for her. She hasn't contributed.

foxinsocks and singalong, you're right of course and I do know that she's putting me down as a balm to her own injured self-esteem. She always has done. I didn't bargain for how hard I'd find it to be treated like this in my own house and so relentlessly.

She was probably managing less well than we (or my sisters, who both used to live within 5 minutes of her) realised.

Unfortunately the petty fault-finding pushes my buttons and I lose all sense of proportion. I've struggled hard not to do it to my dd and I'm damned if I'm going to let my mother start now.

diddl - don't think she contributed to the house purchase.

It sounds to me as if it was a wrench to give up her independence, and the 'she persuaded me' type comments are to fool herself. Ignore them - she is still getting used to this, as you are. She knows it's your house, your rules, but is finding it hard to accept after a lifetime of always being the one to lay down the rules.

From my own experience: don't get into battles. Fix a smile and say 'Yes, you're right' and then ignore, change the subject and do it your way anyway. The herb thing was, as you know, petty & not worth keeping in your head.

If you both want it to work, with a bit of give & take on both sides you will make it work.

Good luck! Can't be easy. You have my sympathy

eemie, how about looking into sheltered housing for your mum? it does sound like her living with you is just going to cause more and more strain and you've enough on your plate by the sounds of things.

ask the council for a list of sheltered houses near you and try to get your mum to visit with you, the council will arrange a visit thru the warden.

good luck, it doesn't sound easy and you have my sympathy!

How awful for you. You have all my sympathy.

Call social services. They will assess your mum's needs and may provide someone to help care for her.

You can also talk to social workers about how to set ground rules and how to deal with difficult people. Yr Mum may be suffering from dementia - being unpleasant is a symptom - and you may want to take her to the GP for a test.

The most important thing is not to put up with appalling behaviour - which I know is easier said than done, but it can be achieved with ground rules and sticking to them. After three months, if yr mum can't stick to the house rules, then try sheltered housing.

Incidentally, given she hasn't contributed a penny to her housing, then could you suggest an annexe/builders brought in to create 'her' own space?

Sheltered housing is a great option.

I got sheltered housing for my mum and it was a very good solution. The council are keen not let sheltered housing sit vacant, so unless it's really oversubscribed you should find the process fairly quick and painless. We didn't strictly spealing qualify as we had recently moved to the city, but fortunately they were relaxed about all that.

Otherwise either she puts money towards an annexe to be more independnet or you acccept that she is not going to be independent and lower your expectations to maybe one meal (as it comes) a week at most - but probably less and less as time goes by.

You're probably kicking yourself for getting into this. I did consider having my mum move in with us. I was in therapy at the time, and my therapist, who would noormally never direct me to do anything in particular, did on this one occaision come right out and strongly advise me not to do it!

Sorry, got it wrong about your mum selling up.

I´m a bit confused as to what you expect from your mum tbh.

Are you expecting her to look after herself in your house?

It´s just that I´m thinking if she can look after herself, why did she move in?

Well, as others have said, perhaps sheltered might be the way to go.

So when your mother sold her own house did she end up with a lump sum? If so, could she not fund a decent extension or adaptation to give a (ground floor) large bedsitting room, walk in shower room, and small kitchenette? You could then offset that against your inheritance in due course (with full legal advice from a solicitor of course). Done properly, you would be adding value to your house.
That way, should your mother's health deteriorate, you are well set to care for her (with appropriate nursing/social care) for the rest of her life (if that is what you were envisaging). But while she is able, she can toodle around her own space, receive her own visitors, cook her own meals, etc. But she can pop out to you when she/you want. A couple of meals a week, half an hour for coffee in the morning etc.

What are your sisters' views? Can you not share care to alleviate the strain?
When we were caring for my dad, it was really important that all four of us were singing from the same sheet.

Thanks everyone. It is good to be reminded that sheltered housing is an option. I feel worst when I think I've made an irreversible mistake.

A garage conversion is also an option and she could easily afford to pay for it. I'll take a bit of leave over Christmas and think about it.

Ilp, good idea about the smile and the script, it costs nothing to tell someone they're absolutely right. But some of the sniping is not so petty - I worry about the effect on my daughter. Still, I should remember my daughter's not me - she's a lot more resilient, I think.

I'd much rather cook for her than eat her cooking at the cost of listening to criticisms of my housekeeping!

When did celery and carrot depart from vegetable land?

They remain vegetables as far as I know. But a portion is a fist-sized amount, not a fourth share of one stick chopped into a stew.

Of course dd knows that.

Trouble is that the petty fault-finding, especially when done indirectly through dd, stirs up old resentments about the way we were brought up. Hence the urgent phone call to try to arrange therapy today!

What a nightmare. No advice, but I hope you find a way forward that is easier than how this sounds.

Is there something in the house she could be responsible for? Is she a good gardener - would probably have to rope in the rest of you to help, but it would be her responsibility.

Also, what else is she doing during the day, your mum could be bored and like with kids, is going looking for trouble.

My mum lived with us for 12 months after leaving my dad. Had a newborn and toddler at the time and hardly got any help from her, just spent night after night listening to her complaints. So we got her out seeing friends, had her organising things like birthdays and once a week took older DD to gym.