Help me please, Mother moved in, can't talk to sisters, can't get appointment with therapist, save me, Mumsnet...

[eemie]

I've been on Mumsnet for about seven years and most of the people who knew me have long ago fucked off to Moldies, much to my disgust, so I probably count as a newbie now.

We moved to our new house in August, Mum moved in in September.

Since her coming to live with us was first discussed, many many goalposts have been moved, all by her. We ended up going along with what she wanted by a series of defaults.

She has sat back and allowed us to shop, cook & look after her for three and a half months. Tonight for the first time she cooked a meal. We didn't ask her to - we'd stocked up, defrosted the meat etc. but she cooked on her own initiative.

The stew was heavily salted & there were no vegetables. She told dd 'this has more than your five a day' (meaning the carrots, celery etc in the stew).

Then she enjoyed herself complaining that she wanted to put bay leaves in but couldn't find any that met her exacting standards. 'I found some at the back of the drawer (they're in alphabetical order) but they were yukky and they went out of date in October 2008'.

I pointed out the reasons that no harm can come to you from out-of-date freeze-dried bay leaves. She didn't think that was good enough.

'Did you throw them out then? I asked. 'No - I'll save them for you to use - but I wouldn't use them'.

At that point I lost it and said - well you seem quite happy to eat my food.

Sorry, I know this is all petty but I had to clean her house last winter & know how far all standards of hygiene had been left behind. That's the reason I've accepted having to live with her, because I don't think she could have done another winter on her own.

We have little family time now, because of her and because I have to work long hours since my husband was made redundant. And her criticism and undermining of me is constant.

We have code words to signal each other when we need to chill - but it's not enough! Please share your wisdom O wise ones of MN.

And please tell me my daughter's not going to feel like this about me one day...please, please...

And why can't you discuss this with your sisters? How much support (practical or moral) are they giving?

Even if elderly people don't have dementia as such they often have a mental deterioration which removes inhibitions so they say exactly what they think.

You need some support if your mother is going to stay with you.Social Services should do a "carer" assessment i.e. assess you too to see what support you need. You m;;other pro;bably needs some outside social stimulation, perhaps a day centre, lunch club, library or pub club - then perhaps she would be happier and more cheerful with you. Maybe too close a proximity is causing friction - I know mymother will be inspecting my washing machine and cutlery drawer at Christmas - but she will be going home on 28th! Any arrangement that will help put some space between you will be good.

best way to not visit sins of the fathers on your own children is to try your damnedest to understand why your mother / father behaved they way they did in the first place. They too were once small and perhaps badly treated by their own parents. It's a cycle that doesn't have to continue.

This is all very helpful, thanks.

There are endless clubs and coffee mornings round here and she will eventually get round to going. I think she's been putting it off partly because of the deafness. She's waiting for an audiology appointment to see if she can get better aids.

She may take an interest in the garden when the weather improves - cultivate herbs in pots, that kind of thing.

And can't vent to sisters because they're still emotional about her moving away from them, after many years. She did a lot of child care for them, was a big part of their children's lives.

When (if) she feels like it, sisters will have her to stay and give us a chance to have the house to ourselves.

rib, we are not continuing the cycle. But I don't want my mother to behave to dd the way she behaved to me.

My sympathies are with you but don't know any solutions. My mum is moving in with us in a few months time - we are currently cleaning out her house so she can rent it out (rather than sell it) and it is very apparent that she cannot look after herself but she is not prepared to downsize to a retirement flat, so she will have a couple of rooms and a bathroom with us.
I have been involving my siblings with everything that's discussed and my sister has been useful in that she will bring up things that Mum has said where it is obvious our expectations are not the same so I can discuss with sis and then talk to mum. But it's all theoretical so far and mum is full of 'oh it'll all work out' because the alternatives (she stays in current home working 2 jobs in order to pay the bills and neglecting herself and her home, or she sells up and lives in a flat) are worse in her mind than living with us.
Can you really not talk to your sisters? - how old is your mum ?(mine's quite young in granny terms), could your sisters take her for long weekends to give your family a bit of space every now and then?
Oh, and I would not be looking at putting cooking apparatus in her rooms, (people keep telling me I should put some in for my mum too) since at some point it is likely that your mum will get forgetful and you will either have the fire risk or have to ask to remove it. My mum will have a fridge and kettle in her living room but not a microwave/cooker.
Mum is telling her friends that she is moving in with us to 'help us out with the children' as we currently have an au pair and she will be having the au pair's room - I think it is easier for her than admitting that she can't manage on her own anymore, I guess your mum's 'they persuaded me to move in' is a similar face-saving trick.
You sound very stressed and in need of someone else to pick up some of the jobs - is your dh able to get on top of shopping/cooking while he's at home (I know that my dh didn't do any housework on top of his normal stuff when he was redundant though - too busy looking for jobs).
And if your mum is infirm - have you looked into attendance allowance (it's not means tested) which isn't much but may help.

And remember that the difference between your mum being critical of you as a child, and being similar to your dd is that your dd has a great mum who supports and is non-critical of her!

I'm a regular mumsnetter but I've name changed for this thread

My mother moved in with us some years ago. The reason for her doing so was that she is financially totally feckless (long and weary history behind this) and had no pension and no means of supporting herself. The idea was that she could live off the proceeds of selling her house and it would be nice for the children to see a lot more of their grandmother

It was a total disaster for me. She is one of those people who can suck the life and happiness out of your soul. I tried to be tolerant, but she is a depressive and so utterly sapping to live with. Everything was an insurmountable problem.

On top of which there was her dog, which left piles of poo all over the garden and I had to pick it up. It sounds utterly trivial but I resented it so much.

It drove me round the bend. Ultimately we had to ask her to move out. After two years of it, it was either her or me. It cost us a lot of money because we had to pay for her new house and we continue to have to pay for her cleaners and gardeners - without which her house would be an insanitary tip.

So, just take care of yourself. Don't lose sight of your needs.

eemie- not only is your daughter probably more resilient than you, the difference between the impact of comments by a grandma and those made by a mum is HUGE- it is what you say to her that will count in the future, so don't worry

Thank you very much for these comments - very supportive.

Millarkie, I thought about letting her have kitchen stuff in her sitting room and rejected the idea for the reasons you say.

Perhaps I'm being over-protective of my sisters but there are other good reasons to be protective towards them just now.

Liveinmother, thanks for telling me that. I do need to remember it doesn't have to be forever. I can sympathise about being disproportionately angry about little things - because you're carrying so much unexpressed anger about big things that it gets displaced.

Dh is very helpful, does lots of shopping and cooking, drives her around, does school runs & jobs around house, deals with workmen.

Tonight we are both out and I have arranged a babysitter. I want to make formal statement to my mother that child care is none of her responsibility and I don't want to leave room for her to fudge the issue.

Feel better having made that decision. Also planning to go to friends overnight at the weekend for respite

Mum seems to have accepted the babysitter.

She tried to argue about how long the sitter should stay but I just told her what I had arranged.

Dd had a nicer evening than she would have done on her own with my mother, and I felt better because I was leaving the babysitter and not my mother in charge of dd (which I made clear to both).

It will be worth the expense to keep that boundary clear.

Hi eemie.

I moved in to my mum's house when my dad died 5 years ago (god, that's incredible...5 years ago?) with my 2 children. "luckily" I had split from my DH 6 months before dad died, and so I was able to move in and take care of her. I have no sibs.

Ma is a bit of a control freak. I have sacrificed an awful lot, but in fairness, so has she...but it can be very wearing. I often feel like a "lodger" and she has the ability to override my decisions concerning the children in such a way, that I seem unreasonable when I pull her up.

It does get easier. We rub along pretty well together these days. I don't really know what I hope to achieve by posting this and am rambling quite a lot...I guess I'm trying to say, that you are doing a good thing, but that you need to remain in control of your home.

DUR - what a load of waffle with very little advice. sorry!

WIASFC, it's not waffle, you're quite right. I started this thread because I'd lost all sense of perspective and you're talking about taking the long view.

She does love us really. She can learn new tricks (for example she's learned to follow my rules about the dog). And it's our house, not hers, so our rules.

We treat her with great respect and look after her well, so if she's being a martyr it's not our problem.

I've confided in some of my women friends & they're very understanding. And today a psychotherapist offered me an assessment appointment I can actually get to.

Thanks for taking the time to post

I get martyrdom from my mum too. I get "well, Who, you're young...you'll meet someone and leave me...so I have to have things my way because it's ONLY TEMPORARY"

I have spent hours cleaning, only for ma to come along behind me and do it again. The Sky plus is a bone of GREAT CONTENTION!

Honestly? In the long run..I've learned to roll my eyes (with my back to her) and to say, when it is something important "Mum, this is my decision, these are my children, I love you, but I'm not daddy"

Sometimes this helps, sometimes it make things worse!

Yet another waffly post - hey, at least you know you're not alone! .

Good news about the babysitter.
And about the therapist.
My mum is in a similar situation to liveinmothers, but I haven't noticed her being depressed (she is depressed enough to not look after herself but will hold a conversation ok - i think - eeeek).

Aaargh - just typed a long message to you, Millarkie, but lost it somehow.

Wanted to say, please try to have the ground rules conveersation before your Mum moves in. I missed the opportunity by waiting for the right moment. There is no right moment but you have to do it any way.

I could have spared myself a lot of anger by saying simple things like:-

let's all agree that we won't go in each other's bedooms without knocking and waiting for an answer. (We would never dream* of doing this to her but she seems to think nothing of doing it to us).

• we are dd's parents. If she needs to be told something, we'll tell her. If we don't tell her, she'll stay untold.

• don't expect me to listen to your criticisms of dh or dd - or expect them to listen to your criticisms of me. Find someone else to complain to.

• my dog, my rules.

• if you want us to do something for you, please ask. Don't make us guess.

Sorry, getting carried away. You get the idea, though good luck.

Eemie - I've been watching with interest but am not in the same situation so felt I could not comment until now. I think your list of rules above are very sensible and entirely reasonable. Why don;t you say to your mum that you have a few issues that need resolving and some rules from your side that would help to ease the sitation. Give her a chance to 'list her issues' too and then see if you can't meet (with or without outside assistance - sister, counsellor, dh - whoever might help) to iron it out. I personally don't think it's too late as these things only tend to manifest themselves once in the sitation and are entirely unexpected beforehand. Good luck x

shushpenfold - you're absolutely right that it needs to be a two-way thing.

We have tried to think of things we can do to make her life easier - like not rattling cutlery/crockery (her hearing aids make it sound harsher).

Mum finds it hard to say what she wants. She prefers to deny wanting anything, then subtly punish you for not guessing (true quote from years ago, when asked what she wanted to eat: 'don't worry about me, I don't matter').

I suppose if we ask her to make a list and she can't bring herself to put anything on it, that in itself is a step forward.

Hmm

After we'd been away overnight to friends, I sat down and explained to Mum that we're out next Saturday and I've organised another babysitter.

She questioned the timing but didn't try to argue and made a point of saying 'it's up to you'.

She then said she's trying hard not to interfere in things that are none of her business. She said she's very comfortable, has no 'issues' and only hopes I haven't regretted taking her in.

It seems that just the act of taking a bit of time for ourselves has prompted her to think about our needs.

She did make a point of saying that she missed the dog more than she missed us, which I'm sure is true!